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Exactly. No reason to suspect any of those guys will be gone before then but most of us were pretty confident Stan was going to be a solid 4 year guy too. When we are very young like last year we struggle to be mid pack in the BT so in 2017 I want the freshman we may be in on now to be complimented by 4 or 5 junior/senior kids who can lead well on and off court.

He needs some of them but he equally needs guys like RoJo, Emmit, Collin and Max to become solid 3rd year guys to lead some of those young 2017s. No reason to believe they will not but to maintain success those guys will have to be the keys.

I thought the article was fair. I think Crean is doing a really good job this year and would not be surprised if he is considered for the coach of the year. However, Crean still needs to find a way to get us over the hump and needs to produce teams that regularly compete for the BT championship. We are early in the year but a couple wins this week will really propel us in that direction this year. The BT is down but next year is really the year where we should expect to compete on a national level. So in a way anything better than 5th in the BT is gravy this year. My concern is that after the 2016 season Crean needs to find a way to balance his classes somehow so we do not find ourselves unable to compete for the BT championship because we again young. So sure, this year is fun and next year could be better but we have to find a way to reload vs rebuild every 3 years.

And I said bad luck or poor recruiting. Regardless that large class set us back big time

Working hard I will not question but a big way to show value is to keep a roster spot open for a kid. Had Harris committed he would have bumped someone else. Some insiders claim this was a reason he did. It come. I have no idea but if true and I have said before, it is not my job to ID talent and recruit kids. That is Creans job and call it bad luck or poor recruiting decisions but that class set us way back. You cannot swing and miss on a 3 members of a five man top five class. Especially when half of the remaining two has been widly inconsistent

Crean was on a recruiting role though at that time. The 13 class looked great and we had Zeller in the fold for 11. The 12 class was highly ranked and we did say no to guys like Dunham and did not make Harris a priority. As much recruiting momentum as he had at that time the 12 miss is the one that really hurt. That was a top 5 class nationally and were mostly local kids who we should have known more about. The miss on that class set us back several years. Bad luck, bad recruiting it has hurt the program and honestly might have created to big of a hole to climb back out of in time.

I think your point is fair. It is also fair though to wonder if Crean can manage to balance a roster when things like this happen. Sometimes things like injuries are unavoidable but just last year we had a roster that was woefully lacking outside shooters. Two years in a row where we have a glaring weakness. We addressed the shooters this year but it seems strange to me that we send two bigs to the NBA lottery, have a glaring need and cannot sign anyone for this year.

During the MSU game, when we were down 20+ would his participation have jeopardized the game situation? I would argue keeping HP or Holt in risks injury in a game we were going to lose

I agree with you about the difficulty in replacing those three. However, Cody has been gone 2 years, Luke 1.5 years and Noah 1 year. Perhaps you could assume Luke plus HP is good enough but that plan did not work out and getting two guys this summer who cannot even get on the court in a position we need is frustrating. I do not agree that we are exceeding expectations let alone by leaps and bounds. If you are basing that on the preseason picks those were largely that way due to a lack of confidence in our program. Look at the roster and even the experience. No we are not senior laden but we have a McD pg who is a junior and has logged a ton of time. Several other 4 stars with a season or more under their belt and another McD kid in Blackman. We have the talent to finish top 4 in the BT and anything lower than that, in a down BT, is a disappointment.

Crean mentioned on his radio show, which aired after the HP injury, that April needed to learn to practice harder. I would like to see him get some minutes as I think that will help him see how far behind he is. We took a flyer on him and Priller though so not much was expected this year. I am cool with talking a flyer on a big but we do not have a good track record of developing moderately ranked bigs

I agree except the part about the Indians. But if the Indians can help sign them up.

I may be wrong and would not really get too upset by a small change here and there but I think there have been a lot of other things that have occurred which have caused us to lose our recruiting edge.

Well he is right. To many announcers try and act like every team is awesome.

Holt could be. He seems to really attack rebounds. It would help him to grow a little more or put on some real beef. If our top 8 players return next year I think we are easily top 20 level team. If HP, Holt make a big jump or some 5* big not on the roster join the team we could be top 10.

Ok then how do the Wisconsin's, Spartans, Buckeyes, Duke, UNC, Gonzagas and Jayhawks find that perfect storm of sorts on a consistent basis. There are a lot of teams outside of the UK model that are successful and competitive nearly every year.

I really think we have more talent than many of the teams 2-9. Nebraska last night had two guys we largely ignored on defense. It has been nice to see HP and TWs improvement this year. If those two can be consistent we have a chance for a very good year. I thought at the beginning of the year we had the talent and enough experience to be a top 4 team in the BT. With the BT being down it seems even more likely. Still a very good win on the road last night. Road wins are hard to come by and Crean did a good job making changes last night.

No more subs without fan approval

All the momentum in the first stalled by self inflicted idiocy. Holt plays great have a seat. Troy plays great have a seat. Gotta get time for Stan and Max and certainly have to play with no center for big stretch.

I think we largely agree on performance then. Compete for BT most years and expect to advance in the tourney. There will be a down year but it should be like MSU now. They have competed for the BT championship for several years in a row before having the down year. When you say Crean should have a chance to get through this what does that really mean in terms of time? This year or next? I think you are right about us winning enough this year to have Crean return next year but my concern is that after Yogis senior year we lose so many players we are back to being young again.

I asked this previously and am legitimately interested in your answer. I am curious, let's start with Creans 3rd year and extend through 2016. What sort of results would you want out of a coach at IU? BT championships are great and I will take those anytime but do you have any expectations on a national level?

The problem here though is that this is mid year for basketball but with JJ leaving for football this is their offseason.

After seeing all these recruits who we missed on and who are struggling I am not sure what to think. We missed on so many of them and ended up with two guys who barely see the court.

Think I have disagreed with you several times recently but having read this post I have no idea why. We are on the same page. Good post.

Our fan base splintered when RMK was fired. There are some from that camp that want the old ways but the game and environment has changed so much even RMK could not rekindle those times if he were the coach now. I am one who longs for those days but recognize the game has moved and a lot of what I loved about those times is gone. I think Crean has captured most of what we in Indiana value off the court despite the run of trouble over the last year. His kids graduate, many early, if they stay. It's the peaks and valleys in wins that is hurting him the most. His peaks are not high enough and not long enough and his valleys are too low. I really think had the 12 class not been such a huge miss he could have sustained the peak longer but man that class really killed momentum. Back during the RMK days, the fans base actually began to splinter before his firing. As his winning dropped off supporters grew more tired of him. The miss on the Charlie miller class and the transfer of Luke Recker really weakened a lot of his remaining support. Though at the time of his firing many like me who were beginning to doubt thought that the firing was garbage and then that further entrenched more support for him and a lot against IU. There is a challenge here at IU unlike many other places but the opportunity here is unlike many either. Win here and you may not get the old RMK support back but there is enough other support to make it worthwhile. Gotta win more consistently though. This is not a naive assumption that we have to be in the FF every year. But there are plenty of ways to increase wins from Creans history such that we have an occasional run at a championship (every 3-4 years) and generally always competing for the BT championship and lastly always in the NCAA. There are enough other teams that are closer to these results for us to settle for less.

Izzo supposedly was interested according to Dakich and Kravitz. Did your friend ever mention him? I do not doubt that Izzo told Kravitz he was interested but always wondered how deep the interest was