8bucks

I agree with you about the difficulty in replacing those three. However, Cody has been gone 2 years, Luke 1.5 years and Noah 1 year. Perhaps you could assume Luke plus HP is good enough but that plan did not work out and getting two guys this summer who cannot even get on the court in a position we need is frustrating. I do not agree that we are exceeding expectations let alone by leaps and bounds. If you are basing that on the preseason picks those were largely that way due to a lack of confidence in our program. Look at the roster and even the experience. No we are not senior laden but we have a McD pg who is a junior and has logged a ton of time. Several other 4 stars with a season or more under their belt and another McD kid in Blackman. We have the talent to finish top 4 in the BT and anything lower than that, in a down BT, is a disappointment.

Crean mentioned on his radio show, which aired after the HP injury, that April needed to learn to practice harder. I would like to see him get some minutes as I think that will help him see how far behind he is. We took a flyer on him and Priller though so not much was expected this year. I am cool with talking a flyer on a big but we do not have a good track record of developing moderately ranked bigs

I agree except the part about the Indians. But if the Indians can help sign them up.

I may be wrong and would not really get too upset by a small change here and there but I think there have been a lot of other things that have occurred which have caused us to lose our recruiting edge.

Well he is right. To many announcers try and act like every team is awesome.

Holt could be. He seems to really attack rebounds. It would help him to grow a little more or put on some real beef. If our top 8 players return next year I think we are easily top 20 level team. If HP, Holt make a big jump or some 5* big not on the roster join the team we could be top 10.

Ok then how do the Wisconsin's, Spartans, Buckeyes, Duke, UNC, Gonzagas and Jayhawks find that perfect storm of sorts on a consistent basis. There are a lot of teams outside of the UK model that are successful and competitive nearly every year.

I really think we have more talent than many of the teams 2-9. Nebraska last night had two guys we largely ignored on defense. It has been nice to see HP and TWs improvement this year. If those two can be consistent we have a chance for a very good year. I thought at the beginning of the year we had the talent and enough experience to be a top 4 team in the BT. With the BT being down it seems even more likely. Still a very good win on the road last night. Road wins are hard to come by and Crean did a good job making changes last night.

No more subs without fan approval

All the momentum in the first stalled by self inflicted idiocy. Holt plays great have a seat. Troy plays great have a seat. Gotta get time for Stan and Max and certainly have to play with no center for big stretch.

I think we largely agree on performance then. Compete for BT most years and expect to advance in the tourney. There will be a down year but it should be like MSU now. They have competed for the BT championship for several years in a row before having the down year. When you say Crean should have a chance to get through this what does that really mean in terms of time? This year or next? I think you are right about us winning enough this year to have Crean return next year but my concern is that after Yogis senior year we lose so many players we are back to being young again.

I asked this previously and am legitimately interested in your answer. I am curious, let's start with Creans 3rd year and extend through 2016. What sort of results would you want out of a coach at IU? BT championships are great and I will take those anytime but do you have any expectations on a national level?

The problem here though is that this is mid year for basketball but with JJ leaving for football this is their offseason.

After seeing all these recruits who we missed on and who are struggling I am not sure what to think. We missed on so many of them and ended up with two guys who barely see the court.

Think I have disagreed with you several times recently but having read this post I have no idea why. We are on the same page. Good post.

Our fan base splintered when RMK was fired. There are some from that camp that want the old ways but the game and environment has changed so much even RMK could not rekindle those times if he were the coach now. I am one who longs for those days but recognize the game has moved and a lot of what I loved about those times is gone. I think Crean has captured most of what we in Indiana value off the court despite the run of trouble over the last year. His kids graduate, many early, if they stay. It's the peaks and valleys in wins that is hurting him the most. His peaks are not high enough and not long enough and his valleys are too low. I really think had the 12 class not been such a huge miss he could have sustained the peak longer but man that class really killed momentum. Back during the RMK days, the fans base actually began to splinter before his firing. As his winning dropped off supporters grew more tired of him. The miss on the Charlie miller class and the transfer of Luke Recker really weakened a lot of his remaining support. Though at the time of his firing many like me who were beginning to doubt thought that the firing was garbage and then that further entrenched more support for him and a lot against IU. There is a challenge here at IU unlike many other places but the opportunity here is unlike many either. Win here and you may not get the old RMK support back but there is enough other support to make it worthwhile. Gotta win more consistently though. This is not a naive assumption that we have to be in the FF every year. But there are plenty of ways to increase wins from Creans history such that we have an occasional run at a championship (every 3-4 years) and generally always competing for the BT championship and lastly always in the NCAA. There are enough other teams that are closer to these results for us to settle for less.

Izzo supposedly was interested according to Dakich and Kravitz. Did your friend ever mention him? I do not doubt that Izzo told Kravitz he was interested but always wondered how deep the interest was

I agree but the thing that gives me pause is the timing. If we make the tourney this year and win one game, then next year again get to the tourney and make it to the sweet sixteen then lose are we still making a change after that year? As I see it, after the 2016 season we once again lose a lot of key players. Some guys return but we will primarily be a young team yet again and likely in that rebuild mode. So while it may be a good time to reload, would IU really fire a coach after making the sweet sixteen? I agree that we are after more than sweet sixteens but still I have doubts IU would make a change then.

"Former bears head coach Cam Cameron"? Was he ever head coach in Chicago? Are they looking at Wilson as an offensive coordinator or to be the HC? Would seem to be a stretch to consider Wilson NFL head coach level at this point but he does have that edge about him.

Glad you caught the shucks part. I think we are seeing things completely different on this. I do not think Roy has been handed anything Crean had not been handed. As you said the support was there through the rebuild and the waned recently. The question is why? Interestingly we both point to results and as you astutely pointed out, Crean reached on a couple of recruiting classes that have been a big cause of why we have "stalled out" as you called it. On this we agree, but here we start to differ. If you look back at ol Roys time at Kansas he never stalled out. This he never lost the support. Creans program has stalled and he is going to catch heat for that. But let's assume we do as you say and get behind him despite that. When I look forward another likely stall is coming in the fall of 2016 after we lose Yogi, JBj, Nick, HP and possibly Troy. That is something that Crean has had throughout his career. A few peaks followed by stalled out rebuilds. Guys like Roy keep producing year after year after year. So now someone will come along and point out the scandal at UNC and try to discredit my post. I used Roy as an example because you initially did not because he is some shining star of how to build a program.

I agree. Though if we found someone that was big enough as a PF and had a defensive mindset and rebounded like a mad man that would work. Perea does not have that mindset. Not enough time to see if Holt or DD could do that. I think DD size would limit him a lot though.

Roy Williams may be an average coach but instead of blaming fans why not look at some of the reasons he has had support. Roy at Kansas coached 15 years. His teams won the Big 12 9 times out of his last 13 years. Roy had 4 teams make the FF two lost in the championship game. Add to that consistent appearances in the NCAA every year he could. He also took over a team under probation though not as bad off as IU. Tom coached at Marquette for 9 years and won 1 conference championship (conf USA). He had one team make a FF. Shucks Doesn't it seem logical to wonder why it is easier to support one guy over the other?

Certainly some truth to what you said but we finished the last month of that year with 5 wins and 4 losses. We looked flat and never really found the rhythm we had when we were number 1. Of our 5 wins down the stretch only the win at Michigan resembled the way we had played the first 2/3 of the year. I heard several broadcasters comment on the pace of our practices. Stephen Bardo on a local radio show echoed the concern that the practice paces could have explained our late season swoon. I am not sure if that was the case or not but the Syracuse loss was only a part of our poor finish. We went over a month playing very average basketball.

He had to be hurt. The Gtown bigs were not quick so he would have matched up better against them than against Louisville

I agree. I think he listens but he is not a guy that makes changes easily and has said no before. However to take his comments as absolute proof he would never come or if he did we should consider him a liar is crazy talk.