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It seems if a coach goes to watch a kid play someone tweets about it. Just hard to recruit in stealth these days.

So you assume a guy that played for RMK about 30 years ago and has been in the NBA since then would trend more towards his playing days than what he is doing now?

I know many of you do not like Dakich but he too is dumbfounded why we do not press. He also pointed out that our guys do not do a good job getting down in a defensive stance. He even said he gets tired of fans calling out the coach after a loss but if we lose and we do not press he said he would not have a problem with fans complaining.

No kidding. We are recruiting two high end bigs now but if we get neither we are just fine? I do not get it. We should be recruiting at least a few back up plans should our top two not work out.

I follow bball, live in Indy, and have some friends close to the Butler program and have never heard he had that interest. It must not have been that common.

I agree. Always wondered how this fits with the concept that contracts mean something.

I am not defending TC but what the heck order is that in. If you look others have had worse records but are listed in the middle.

If I am not mistaken, when Davis has lost a lot of support and the fans felt they AD was not listening they held the black out. It was not a racial thing but feeling like the AD did not care the fans wanted to show solidarity and frustration. Not sure we need to go this route but I think it was more peaceful than booing. Glass probably ought to say nothing right now. I am sure Crean would like a vote of confidence but even if Glass plans to keep him he should let the tension fade. Now, a couple more losses, early uninspired exits from the BTT and NCAA and or exits from a couple starters and all bets are off.

He did not say that. He said when walk throughs are tougher than practices. Many analysts have described our walk throughs as very intense. Dakich related a story today on how Sampson used to tell him that Creans teams usually wore down at the end of the year. Stephen Bardo was asked a couple years back after he commented on our intense late season practice pace if he thought it contributed to our being tired and he said he thought it did as well.

I wonder how much support Crean has left. He had been losing support for awhile now but losing at home to Purdue and to NW is bad.

Without a big run in the BTT or the NCAA you have to make the change this year. It will be harder to make a change if he gets a sweet sixteen next year even if it is clear we would have a rebuild the following year. Time to make a change now.

Too early to speculate. I could see some situations where that could be attractive

This would be in the category post rebuild. Some reasons for it are hard to manage but overall that is not a good balance

I did not get to watch but did NW play any walkons we wee not ready for?

Even better. We start off well next year and you will start hearing about an extension

Yeah when I first read it I thought he at least made thoughtful comments about us vs the simple "I can see myself in that offense". But then I thought, man I hope his primary memories of us center around him in our offense vs us being down 20 and never giving up.

I agree with you. As long as we do not collapse to end this year and all they key players return for next year Crean will be back next year. Then it gets interesting. As you pointed out, we lose a lot of key guys at the end of 2016. Next year we bring in some nice pieces but to be fair they will likely develop at best like Troy and VO did over a few years. We will need more high end talent to add to guys like Rob, Emmit, Collin and the '15 kids. Yet as others have pointed out, some of the uncertainty is probably hurting Creans ability to recruit. Imagine if you were recruiting against IU and wanted to create some doubt for a kid. Would you not point out that Creans contract become easier to buy out after 2016? I think it is going to get harder for him to recruit and only a real big run this year (not a fair expectation) or the commitment of a very good big man for next year will help offset that. So what happens, let's say we make the tourney the next two years and even though we look to lose a lot of kids at the end of 2016 we have some highly ranked kids in 2017 that we can bring in IF we remove some of the doubt on who the coach is. Would you be ready to extend Crean next year? If not, the current doubt that hovers over him combined with his contract buyout becoming a minor issue will make it very hard to recruit. I think it was Davis who used this angle to extend his contract and many others do too. The next few years are going to be interesting.

My consistent winning standard is based on being like OSU, MSU and Wisconsin over say a ten year period. I am neither convinced he can nor convinced he cannot but assuming last year was the one in 10 bad year then we need another 6-7 good years. Good years again would be where we are in competition for BT championship. Even though his first run to the sweet sixteen we did not compete for the BT we had a good post season run for they team so I would count that. Crean will eventually have to do more in the NCAA but if he builds teams that consistently fight for the BT crown like MSU OSU and Wisconsin have done for the last decade then postseason success should follow.

I had hopes that by this point our youth would be more experienced and we too would be playing top notch. It is there within grasp if we finish out well

I listen to DD a lot and have not heard him talk bad about any current coach. I have heard very few analysts ever directly criticize a coaches ability and many gush about the brilliance of coaches that most feel are average at best. That being said, I think Crean is a good coach. He has had some success against top 25 teams and has beaten all the top coaches in the BT. I am not yet convinced he can build a consistent winner at IU.

I agree. Those quotes all paint the picture that due to certain positive traits great Crean will do great things. The rebuild was great but the time since has been ok to good only. With the incoming recruits and another year with the current core and we could move up again but we need to build from here going forward. No more years like last year

Thanks. This is what I thought but I am not clued in as to whether Presb or Furhman are any good.

Based on our schedule is 3-3 a good start?

In time he will need the FF and I think if he can consistently have is in that top tier in the BT the FF will happen too. I also think there are many here that are arguing for a FF soon but instead are more concerned that we may not be mirroring that top tier. When things go well like in 2012/13 we can but the question we have is how often will we have the years like last year? Now the FF comes up because of the ending to the 2012-13 year but with more opportunities that will fade.

I agree with just about everything but am not sure he gets three more years. To stay I don't think he has to have a FF in that time frame but will need to keep us in the top tier of the BT. By the end of 2016 if we have two top tier BT finishes, two NCAA tournaments and are set up to expect to build on that in 2016/17 then he gets the third year. If we have a drop off, miss the tourney or it looks like the 2016/17 season will be a drop off then it will be time.