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All the momentum in the first stalled by self inflicted idiocy. Holt plays great have a seat. Troy plays great have a seat. Gotta get time for Stan and Max and certainly have to play with no center for big stretch.

I think we largely agree on performance then. Compete for BT most years and expect to advance in the tourney. There will be a down year but it should be like MSU now. They have competed for the BT championship for several years in a row before having the down year. When you say Crean should have a chance to get through this what does that really mean in terms of time? This year or next? I think you are right about us winning enough this year to have Crean return next year but my concern is that after Yogis senior year we lose so many players we are back to being young again.

I asked this previously and am legitimately interested in your answer. I am curious, let's start with Creans 3rd year and extend through 2016. What sort of results would you want out of a coach at IU? BT championships are great and I will take those anytime but do you have any expectations on a national level?

The problem here though is that this is mid year for basketball but with JJ leaving for football this is their offseason.

After seeing all these recruits who we missed on and who are struggling I am not sure what to think. We missed on so many of them and ended up with two guys who barely see the court.

Think I have disagreed with you several times recently but having read this post I have no idea why. We are on the same page. Good post.

Our fan base splintered when RMK was fired. There are some from that camp that want the old ways but the game and environment has changed so much even RMK could not rekindle those times if he were the coach now. I am one who longs for those days but recognize the game has moved and a lot of what I loved about those times is gone. I think Crean has captured most of what we in Indiana value off the court despite the run of trouble over the last year. His kids graduate, many early, if they stay. It's the peaks and valleys in wins that is hurting him the most. His peaks are not high enough and not long enough and his valleys are too low. I really think had the 12 class not been such a huge miss he could have sustained the peak longer but man that class really killed momentum. Back during the RMK days, the fans base actually began to splinter before his firing. As his winning dropped off supporters grew more tired of him. The miss on the Charlie miller class and the transfer of Luke Recker really weakened a lot of his remaining support. Though at the time of his firing many like me who were beginning to doubt thought that the firing was garbage and then that further entrenched more support for him and a lot against IU. There is a challenge here at IU unlike many other places but the opportunity here is unlike many either. Win here and you may not get the old RMK support back but there is enough other support to make it worthwhile. Gotta win more consistently though. This is not a naive assumption that we have to be in the FF every year. But there are plenty of ways to increase wins from Creans history such that we have an occasional run at a championship (every 3-4 years) and generally always competing for the BT championship and lastly always in the NCAA. There are enough other teams that are closer to these results for us to settle for less.

Izzo supposedly was interested according to Dakich and Kravitz. Did your friend ever mention him? I do not doubt that Izzo told Kravitz he was interested but always wondered how deep the interest was

I agree but the thing that gives me pause is the timing. If we make the tourney this year and win one game, then next year again get to the tourney and make it to the sweet sixteen then lose are we still making a change after that year? As I see it, after the 2016 season we once again lose a lot of key players. Some guys return but we will primarily be a young team yet again and likely in that rebuild mode. So while it may be a good time to reload, would IU really fire a coach after making the sweet sixteen? I agree that we are after more than sweet sixteens but still I have doubts IU would make a change then.

"Former bears head coach Cam Cameron"? Was he ever head coach in Chicago? Are they looking at Wilson as an offensive coordinator or to be the HC? Would seem to be a stretch to consider Wilson NFL head coach level at this point but he does have that edge about him.

Glad you caught the shucks part. I think we are seeing things completely different on this. I do not think Roy has been handed anything Crean had not been handed. As you said the support was there through the rebuild and the waned recently. The question is why? Interestingly we both point to results and as you astutely pointed out, Crean reached on a couple of recruiting classes that have been a big cause of why we have "stalled out" as you called it. On this we agree, but here we start to differ. If you look back at ol Roys time at Kansas he never stalled out. This he never lost the support. Creans program has stalled and he is going to catch heat for that. But let's assume we do as you say and get behind him despite that. When I look forward another likely stall is coming in the fall of 2016 after we lose Yogi, JBj, Nick, HP and possibly Troy. That is something that Crean has had throughout his career. A few peaks followed by stalled out rebuilds. Guys like Roy keep producing year after year after year. So now someone will come along and point out the scandal at UNC and try to discredit my post. I used Roy as an example because you initially did not because he is some shining star of how to build a program.

I agree. Though if we found someone that was big enough as a PF and had a defensive mindset and rebounded like a mad man that would work. Perea does not have that mindset. Not enough time to see if Holt or DD could do that. I think DD size would limit him a lot though.

Roy Williams may be an average coach but instead of blaming fans why not look at some of the reasons he has had support. Roy at Kansas coached 15 years. His teams won the Big 12 9 times out of his last 13 years. Roy had 4 teams make the FF two lost in the championship game. Add to that consistent appearances in the NCAA every year he could. He also took over a team under probation though not as bad off as IU. Tom coached at Marquette for 9 years and won 1 conference championship (conf USA). He had one team make a FF. Shucks Doesn't it seem logical to wonder why it is easier to support one guy over the other?

Certainly some truth to what you said but we finished the last month of that year with 5 wins and 4 losses. We looked flat and never really found the rhythm we had when we were number 1. Of our 5 wins down the stretch only the win at Michigan resembled the way we had played the first 2/3 of the year. I heard several broadcasters comment on the pace of our practices. Stephen Bardo on a local radio show echoed the concern that the practice paces could have explained our late season swoon. I am not sure if that was the case or not but the Syracuse loss was only a part of our poor finish. We went over a month playing very average basketball.

He had to be hurt. The Gtown bigs were not quick so he would have matched up better against them than against Louisville

I agree. I think he listens but he is not a guy that makes changes easily and has said no before. However to take his comments as absolute proof he would never come or if he did we should consider him a liar is crazy talk.

I agree with you. I actually expected a top 5 finish very early in the season. Our lack of D has me concerned but the BT has shown themselves to be less than world beaters this year. Anything less than a top four finish is a pretty big disappointment. I would also hope we finally do something in the BTT.

No one is saying that and you know it. I am curious, let's start with Creans 3rd year and extend through 2016. What sort of results would you want out of a coach at IU? BT championships are great and I will take those anytime but do you have any expectations on a national level?

The sweet sixteen comment stemmed from my thought that we could attain that next year. If we reach that next year, even though the following year we go back to being young again, I doubt IU would fire Crean.

I like Vic a lot but a Cody - Gordon Hayward back to back championship run would have been great.

Crean lost more of his supporters after last year than he did after losing to Syracuse. The down years and the number of off court things in one year are the things chipping away at Creans remaining support. Do you believe that IU has a legitimate chance to get to a FF this year or next? Of not during that window then we start yet another cycle after 16 when we start over. The drops in performance because we are young are as much of a problem as the lack of a championship.

ND football has.

I tend to agree with you but do not think IU will do it unless we have a bad year this year.

I think the Cody Vic team could have won it. IF the rumors are true that Crean worked the practices way too hard late in that season then I believe he also has limitations understanding how to coach towards a championship. I believe the rumors to be true because I heard too many independent guys comment about how hard the practices and even walk throughs were. So to answer your question, yes I think he can coach a champion here but I think the gaps between contenders will be wide and unsatisfactory. My question though is would IU make a change if we get to the NCAA this year? I think not. Would we then make a change next year if we make the sweet sixteen? Again, I think not.