southernindianahoosier2

Insanity?

Well hot seat in year 4 is better than: Crean on the hot seat in his *2nd*/*3rd* year in 2013 (assuming you remove the first couple of years). Archie on the hot seat in his second year after losing 12 of 13 Woodson on the hot seat in year 3 after bottoming out on KenPom / Torvik The common theme... Fans are quick to spot when something isn't a good fit.... RIP THE BANDAID OFF

The article on Dusty May was pretty eye opening on how much different he really is than Archie and Woodson. Had they not got beat on that buzzer beater we wouldn't be considering him "risky"...

We Tried getting a proven coach last time and we ended up getting a 63yr old who’d never coached college basketball before in his life. Scared money don’t make money

Hypothetically what would you do in this scenario as the AD at IU?..... IU misses the NIT Micah Shrewsberry wins the ACC tournament and makes it to the tournament and wins a game Dusty May makes a S16, E8, or FF Bruce Pearl makes a E8, or FF Chris Beard makes Rnd 32, or S16 Nate Oats makes S16 Purdue wins the national championship or makes it to the Title game Edit: Adding in Assume that the following Jobs open up at the end of this March: Louisville, UK, OSU, Louisville, and Michigan ____________________________ What moves are you making assuming all of the above happens?

With the amount of Podcasts and Radio Shows and articles on May, I believe we'd give him time... Woodson is a black hole and we have no visibility into any of his strategy or thoughts, how he coaches in practice etc. I've read multiple articles and listened to multiple podcasts on how May approaches practice, how he gets his players to buy in and inspires the team.... I've not read or listened to one Woodson article on how he approaches anything strategically, if i'm wrong, please link the article... But the visibility and love of media for May would be a game changer for the fanbase...... No longer would we have to listen to Crean say "I have to check the tapes", Archie be a weirdo, or Woodson try to obfuscate what our eyes are telling us.... If May has a bad year, he could be on any number of podcasts or radio shows and tell us his strategy, and we'd put trust in that system.... I'm telling you May would turn the fanbase into his biggest asset where as Woody has done the oppostie.

As a reflect on what people are saying on here... I saw what Brad Stevens did in 2010/2011 and thought to myself, "there will never be anyone else like him."... Until I saw Chris Beard go to an E8, then to the Title Game the next year... We missed on Stevens, and we didn't go after Beard.... I thought there wouldn't be anyone else as good as Beard or Stevens.... Until I watched Dusty May (who's having an eerily similar records as Stevens did in his 2 year run). If we miss on Dusty, I'm sure there will be another that will pop up in 3 to 5 or 8 years that will be another elite coach with loose ties to Indiana that could be a program changer. But the universe has been handing IUBB answers to all of our problems to change our program... The administration just isn't listening...

THIS... And its likely next year we have Queen and Malik in another double post centric offense, we would be better if we only played one center.

Also let the record show that I'm a bit extreme and would hire Tom Jurich as my AD, and hire Chris Beard as my coach... Since probably not possible for either, I'm all in for May, with Schertz a close 2nd.

I'm biased... I was upset when we extended Crean in 2012 and I took a lot of heat for that take.... My take seems validated now given how everything played out. While I love Woodson, and in a Vacuum would be fine with him staying... We have to take into consideration timing, and I'd rather take a risk on May or Shertz, than Woodson for year 4. Let the record show I am all in for moving on at the end of this year.

I wasn't on the boards in 2011... Was there a similar sentiment / argument around letting Crean go after year 3 to go after Brad Stevens?

Interesting that most of these coaches end up coaching in multiple final fours... and when elevated to a larger program, like Cal with UK, they take off.. Shaka is a unique one, because it seems more like his FF run might be more due to a zero day exploit (think fosbury flop) with his Havoc defense.

1. Yes 2. Not a chance

Coaching search by year and candidates mentioned on the board: 2000 - Mike Davis? 2006 - John Beilin, Rick Pitino, Kelvin Sampson 2008 - Tom Crean? 2017 - Archie Miller, Chris Holtmann, Chris Mack 2021 - Chris Beard, Eric Musselman, Nate Oates, Brad Stevens, Woodson 2023 - John Shertz, Dusty May, Micah Schrewsberry ____________________________________ Interesting that our pick in 2006 no matter who would have been solid. Interesting that a lot of experts said out of the 3 realistic candidates in 2017 Archie was the worst fit of the bunch, with a lot saying Mack would be the best fit at IU given his relationship with the media. Yet all 3 ended up flaming out. Interesting that out of the coaching candidates in 2021, Beard is still by far the best one, with Oates being second ___________________________________ From a macro level, it seems that IU's issue is we didn't make a move in 2011 to grab Stevens from Butler... And ironically, we find our selves in the same predicament today... Both coaches in 3rd season, do we retain for a fourth? Dusty May coming off a FF, potentially could go back? If we don't make a bold move, I'm afraid history will repeat itself. I can live with taking a chance on May... I can't live with taking a chance on woodson for year 4...

I’m not saying any of what you said is wrong… I’m saying that in order for A, then B then C to happen we have to update our program, whether that be a uniform collaboration, barbershop in the practice facility, etc. even if it makes a 5% difference, maybe that’s enough to land Timberlake, Knecht, Boogie, or a few other guards. IU’s brand has been deathed by 1000 paper cuts, everything about it is stale…

That makes sense. But isn’t that just self preservation?

I'm 33, grew up in southern Indiana... My family was not sports fans, and I was the first one to go to IU in my family. I went to IU from 09-13.... I was not even a fan until the 2011 team. Both of my brothers went to UofL, and I have a lot of friends that are fans of UK. So I feel I have an interesting perspective, that takes into consideration how others view IU. I've never experienced IU being a legitimate nationally prominent program. Even in 2013 I remember my brother saying "dude Crean is your coach, you're not winning anything this year"... I stopped watching during the Archie years because it was too sad to watch. Plain and simple, IU has not had a legitimate coach at the helm since Knight. We also haven't had a legitimate AD since Greenspan. and there are foundational cracks. We need a leader that can rally the fans and rally the administration to get on board. This can all be solved with one coach with a vision for the program that will comb over every detail of the program. Uniforms an issue? okay coach will solve it. Non-con an issue? okay coach will solve it? Bad practice facility? okay coach will solve it. I have 0 faith that the Admin or coaches are capable of doing anything outside of coaching that our program needs. Program needs a facelift badly that exceeds far beyond the style of play... Been saying it for years...

Ya and I know the cupcakes he scheduled was a Fred Glass issue by not giving him a string budget to schedule

How did IU hamstring Crean?

With our history, we'll add 6 front-court players. Probably run a 5 center line-up

I've seen a lot of "we can't fire Woody in year 3 because you can't just keep firing coaching every 3 years... Where's the stability"..... Stability comes from having built a strong foundation in the program. A program with a strong foundation can plug a new coach like Kevin Ollie and he can win a National Championship, fire him, and a new coach comes in and wins another national championship. Same with UNC. How do you build a strong foundation without a practice schedule? Tom Crean could have coached at IU for 40 years and regardless of when he leaves its a "total rebuild" for the next coach. When Archie was hired he had to rebuild the way IU schedules and budgets for non-conference games. That's just 1 of 100's of things that are the makeup of a program. We have cracks in the foundation of the program as a whole, we're a losing program/business and it permeates every aspect at which we operate. Thats why its always a rebuild for indiana, we haven't had a coach to make the necessary program changes or an AD to hold anyone accountable for foundational stability. Do we expect mike woodson to care about the smallest details and take full ownership and build out a program and then communicate his vision on what he's changing to the fanbase? No. We need a coach who wants total control and ownership of the program and runs it like the CEO. Whatever coach can come in point out what we're doing wrong and be a control freak to fix it and build a solid foundation is the one I want.

Out on McDermott, replace him with Beard, and add May to the list and I'm in

Why would we even offer Queen? So we can play 2 bigs again???? At what point do we scrap it? Seems like our options are, give him 1more year to figure it out and completely change EVERYTHING abut his system, or make a move for someone new... Given I think Shertz, May, Beard, and Shrews... All of whom I think were better than Holtmann, Archie, and Mack during our last search... Why wait one year for the inevitable?

He can’t shoot, and he continues to shoot long 2’s

CJ Gunn might be the worst player I’ve ever seen get meaningful minutes in an IU uniform…