SamIam

Wright is not coming back to coaching. Obviously I'm down with taking a shot. Stevens is also not coming back, we already backed up the brinks truck. Plus screw him for that whole masshole comment. Oats might want to come back to the midwest, but the buyout is 10 mill. Don't think we can afford him. Not to mention I have some reservations about his style. He's like top 5 in tempo every year. Gets really hard for him to win if his team is forced out of their style. Cronin is a decent coach, but he isn't doing so hot right now. I have questions about his ceiling. Mike White. This one has to be a joke, UF fans were ecstatic when he left. He was trending down at Florida. In fact, they regressed every year in Kenpom after a certain top assistant left.

If you want us to move this year we don't have the money for this. We just moved on from the 20 million dollar man in football. Woody is at 12.5 mill, and we would have to pay to buy the new coach out and any "proven" coach is gonna be 10+ million as well.

People here love Nate Oats but definitely would have called him "unproven" and "flavor of the month" coming from Buffalo. Sh*t, go look at the AP poll and the Kenpom top 25. Every coach on there except Bill Self was either hired as an assistant, mid-major coach, or was previously fired from another job. All of those apparently disqualify you from being considered for the IU job. Why do we make it so hard on ourselves to be successful? Why do we have so many arbitrary requirements? Other successful schools go out and hire an up and coming guy, like schools have done for years. Here, we need a qualified guy from a power five, but he can't be too old and tired like Woody. And he needs to be able to recruit Indiana and understand our program's history, but we need to stop "looking for IU guys" cause that doesn't work. He needs to be an energetic program builder who is young enough to burn up the recruiting trail, but he can't come from a mid-major program, cause Archie flamed out. Every coaching search we have a new requirement based on what we think went wrong with the last one. We tried to fix Crean with Archie, fix Archie with Woody, and now Woody with whoever replaces him. Since Archie didn't work we have people excluding all mid-major guys. Now since Woody is floundering we have ppl excluding all IU guys. How about this: we recognize every coach is their own person. When you get down to it, there is compelling evidence that Dusty May is a really really good coach. He has certainly built a program out of nothing. He is one of the hottest names in coaching, period. And he just happens to be a southern Indiana boy and alum who understands and loves the program. True, that may not be enough, who knows. But too many people in here just say "Archie Miller" as a blanket exclusion of every mid major guy as if that hasn't been the chief method of finding a coach for all of CBB history.

Gosh how many times do we have to do this. I accept that no one can say Dusty is a sure thing. But no one can say definitively that he will fail either. And Anthony Grant got fired from Alabama and he probably has an even better resume than Archie at UD. Everyone wins there. Nobody has ever won at FAU.

Basketball is a copycat game, the best are constantly learning and adapting. Shoot, we just lost to NW, Collins saved his job by realizing his weak point and hiring Chris Lowery to shore it up. Scott Drew and John Beilein both completely changed their defenses after years of playing another way. I just don't trust Mike Woodson to listen to anyone but Mike Woodson. Every time he's asked he just says "I know the system works."

This is depressing but the clock is ticking on college sports as we know it. Honestly, this is another one of the reasons I hope we move on from Woody now. I want to win while this sport is still the sport I grew up with. It's already changed so much, but NIL is nothing compared to what's coming. PAC 12 teams are joining next year. The tournament will be expanded to 90-something teams in the next few years. And there is essentially no way the NCAA can outmaneuver all of the existential threats they are facing in the courts. Soon players will be employees. After that, football will be all that matters. The big schools will form their own league, and they will gut the tournament to protect the big schools interests. Remember when the top european football clubs tried to form a super league and the outrage was so immediate that they had to scrap that plan? We really needed a moment like that, cause we all hate the way things are going and yet no one can step up and stop it.

"Between 2010 and 2019, there were 39 one-and-done players selected in the first round of the NBA Draft without having won an NCAA Tournament game during their college seasons. The coaches of 27 of those players were fired, forced out, or left under pressure within five years, including Final Four veterans Rick Barnes at Texas, Ben Howland at UCLA, and Tom Crean at Indiana. Six of those one-and-dones played for Hall of Famers who could endure beyond such disappointment: Mike Krzyzewski, John Calipari, Jim Calhoun, and Jim Boeheim. This means for those coaches who weren’t enshrined in Springfield, there was an 82 percent chance signing such a player and seeing him enter the draft without going all Greg Oden on the world was like lining up to collect unemployment — or a multi-million-dollar buyout, anyway." Get old, stay old.

It's unlikely we ever get to see it but Dusty's offense with a big guard like McNeeley is the absolute dream. Guard skills for offense, big enough to hold against 4's on defense. That's the vision for Dusty at the P5 level.

I'll add to this, I've watched them a ton this year and last. Humblebrag but I had a Final Four future on them in January last year so they will always have a special place in my heart. They never pass up an open 3 and the offense generates a buttload of open looks (7th in the nation in offensive shotquality). Dusty sometimes calls plays when they need a bucket but for the most part its "see space, attack space." The calling card is versatility. Everyone playing needs to be able to effectively fill in 1-4. They have like 6 guards who are clones of each other. That's where I would focus, they are all just dripping with Dusty's coaching. He wants every guy to be able to defend 1 on 1, drive effectively, and hit open 3's. On offense, they initiate with whoever they think has the biggest mismatch, have him drive the guy himself or through a screen. He kicks, and they rinse and repeat attacking the scramble until they get an open three or layup. Johnell Davis is usually this guy because he usually has a slower 4 on him, but b/c they can all drive and shoot it doesn't matter who initiates the offense. On defense same thing. All rotation guards can defend 1-4, so they switch everything. Hands are always ball level, they get a ton of deflections despite having very little length. Really pursue rebounds. They will alternate between sending doubles and playing straight up in the post throughout the game. It just makes them incredibly hard to guard or game plan for because if you take one guy away there are 3 more guards they can attack with. They lose when teams have enough length to take away those initial drives, and FAU gets stuck dribbling, then they get out of control and start throwing the ball into the stands on their kicks. Fun team to watch either way though.

It's one thing to have to buy out a coach from another P5 conference, it's another to fork over 10+ million to a conference rival for a buyout

Just social media hearsay but I keep seeing fans of teams with open jobs saying they don't want May since he would just leave for IU. If it's true that people know he wants IU, maybe that's something AD's take into consideration.

Sorry, Sean not Archie

Miller apparently wants to get back to the big leagues but not sure if OSU wants that, I've heard Paris mentioned a lot but he's unproven.

You're gonna give the lawyers on here war flashbacks with these contracts hypotheticals

Gotta admit I was team Holtmann after we fired Crean. Didn't like Archie at all, but I guess Holt probably wouldn't have lasted either. It's like Oral Roberts broke them. Couldn't have expected to lose guys like Branham and Sensabaugh after 1 year, kept having to turn over the roster YOY. Still, this will be his first year outside the top 50 in Kenpom. Thornton, Royal, and Gayle will likely hit the portal. Thornton has ties to the IU staff I believe.

Damn I wish I could unread this one, that stings

Matta's health was a huge question mark and fans might not have liked if he hired a guy who was pushed out of another Big Ten job

I never said it was all due to TJD. You are correct this is one down year so far. The issue is that CMW has shown no willingness to adapt his system at all. This offseason he will try to bring in DQ to play 2 bigs again, despite MR getting killed trying to guard fours just like Race did. He says now, and he said last year that we shoot enough threes despite being 350+ in attempts both years. And what happened last year when we faced someone playing modern basketball? They ran us out of the gym. Zona. Iowa. PSU. Miami. Kansas. In year one and two, it was easy to say that Woody was just running that system out of necessity because he had the best center in basketball. But this year he went out and chose his team, and we are playing the same. That argument no longer stands, this is how he wants to play, and his interviews back this up. So yes, with elite talent, his system can work. But it is working in spite of the system not because of it. It's not efficient offensive basketball, to say nothing of the concerning defensive trends. I would love to be proven wrong. But I have seen nothing to suggest I will be. Do you have anything that suggests we will play different next year? You say I'm making up stuff, I'm the only one who's brought anything to support my points vs "May isn't the one." Since we keep talking about "all the other flame outs," can you at lease name one other guy who's had the level of success of Dusty, at a program that has historically done nothing, who has subsequently flamed out as a coach after? Since I'm sure you can't, here's a brief list: '06 George Mason: Larranaga '13 FGCU: Andy Enfield '18 Loyola Chi: Porter Moser Larranaga has had a long and successful career. 2 FF's, and Elite 8, and 2 Sweet Sixteens. Moser is probably too early to tell but he has a top 25 KP team and an over .500 record in the toughest conference in the country right now. The closest I can find to making your argument is Andy Enfield for FGCU. As a 15 seed, he enjoyed much less regular season success than May, and it was not sustained past 1 season. Plus, he only made the Sweet Sixteen not the Final Four. And despite being the closest person on this list to matching your argument, he still has an Elite 8 at the Power 5 level. Woody is 65. The end of his tenure is coming soon, on his terms our ours. You say give him another year. Given the recruiting trajectory, I'm not comfortable handing the '25 class to Purdue with another year of CMW. May might be the guy, he might not be, I've seen enough FAU to be confident in my assessment, but only time will tell. I'm also sure that you don't know enough to just say "May is not the guy." It should be fairly obvious by now that I love a good debate lol. Anyone is welcome to disagree with me, but if you are going to, I just ask you bring literally any modicum of evidence

Also 3 of Stevens' 4 recruiting classes before the most recent 2011 FF run were ranked top 70 on 247. So by that metric at least May is doing this with way less talent than this board's favorite candidate.

Lol you're just sayin stuff with absolutely nothing to back it up though. You invalidate anything good May has done by saying its a fluke or a close win, but treat the close losses like gospel. By your standard, Woodson got lucky by pulling out close games vs Army, FGCU, Morehead, Etc. We already know what Dusty May's teams look like when he "can't get a high level of talent," his classes have been ranked 179, 110, 108, and 168 over the last 4 years. And the 168 was the class with Davis and Martin. It's almost like a good coach is able to identify players for their system and develop them. What does May do without a high level of talent? He wins. If he goes to Final Fours with a bunch of unranked guys, what do you think he could do with some 3 stars? And funny you should mention Brad Stevens, because the last time Butler made the title game their worst loss was to Kenpom #252 Youngstown St. FAU's worse loss this year just happens to be #252 FGCU, so it seems like that is exactly the kind of game a "coaching savant" like Stevens would lose.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the buyouts are generally paid out of specific donor funds, right?

Seems like we are back to arguing over whether Woody should be retained. I think it makes more sense for us to move now for a couple of reasons. IU fans are not being unfair. We have high expectations yes, but as soon as we lose those we cease to be anything other than another run of the mill program in the B1G. If this was one down year, or if this year was injury riddled, and there was real hope for change next year I think people would understand. What lost us is that Woody has given no one any reason to expect that his system will change. A good coach would realize that X plays best as a drive and kick player and thus needs spacing to be effective. When asked about this, Woody doubles down. We know that he thinks there is no problem with his roster construction. We know he doesn't think we need to shoot more threes despite being 353rd in the country in attempts. There has been no indication that this will change, and we are basically looking at an all new team next year, making it an optimal time to move. Almost any other coach in the nation would have recruited Mgbako to play 4, which is why he chose to decommit when Duke's 4 opted to return. Woody has played Mgbako at the 4 in 1(!) game, after being forced to by MR's injury. Woody doesn't have the energy to recruit. His recruiting as a whole has been boom or bust. That's what left us with 1 commit in what was supposed to be his flagship class. He went after good guards in the portal and missed but a good coach has a contingency for his contingencies. A good coach would have still gotten his 3rd target if he missed on 1 and 2 and not left a scholly open. I cannot explain enough how unacceptable that is. There are hundreds of guys who would have taken a chance with that roster spot, Woody just didn't look deep enough. We have all heard the rumors on Sisley and Mullins. Purdue is now looked at as the dominant program in this state. If we wait a year, that '25 class also falls to Matt Painter and we fall further behind. If we move now, we only risk our lone '24 commit. Plus moving now is the cheapest option. Woody's buyout is less next year, but if he retired with 6-8 million, I still think the AD comes out ahead. May and Schertz are likely taking power 5 jobs. In a year they will have massive, first-year-of-your-contract power five buyouts. Right now, its only 1.5M for May and 250K (!) for Schertz. Woody is 65, the buyout for the next coach is coming. Why not move now when you could pay very little for the next coach, especially if someone like May can bring most of his roster and limit the damage to the program. If moving now is the right choice, I think May is the obvious call I could explain why but I think I have already dumped enough text on you all for now

He's a good coach, maybe not elite level. Did a great job turning BSU around immediately last year but it's such a tough job. BSU has no NIL whatsoever, and he got absolutely screwed by the transfer portal this year, lost both his top guards and Sparks. One of them, Jaylin Sellers is averaging like 18 at UCF and the other, Jarron Coleman was poached super late in the game by Nebraska. Had to go find literally anyone to play guard and the results haven't been good. He's turned his new center Basheer Jihad into a legit top player in the MAC but he will probably get poached this offseason too. I think this season should be treated like Matta's last season. He needs a chance to rebuild the roster with his guys now that he understands the portal situation. Got a couple of young guys like IUFB's Cooper Jones' younger brother and Zane Doughty who was a state champ at Ben Davis last year. I don't think we should write him off just yet. Not that anyone asked for this much info lol

I think we all agree on that, but winning at a lower level is being used as a negative for May (he's unproven), and a positive for Schertz (he's a winner!). Again, I like them both just pointing out the inconsistency.

This would be a good point if their success was based on Nelly Davis. FAU plays a ton of guards and Davis came off the bench for like half the season last year. Davis played only 60% of FAU's minutes (Trayce played 80% of ours for ref). He isn't the sole reason for their success. Besides, idk how we have moved on to knocking potential coaches for....recruiting and developing good players?