Stromboli

Yeah I've been thinking about this, too. Yes, Romeo has some Adidas connections. But you know what? By all accounts he was down to the two schools that he is geographically closest to. This is not the result of a bidding war. And I don't think Pitino would have to bid for the kid that lives in town, and wants to stay in town, or at least close. Add to that, Archie has garnered interest from a number of 5* recruits, but EVERY SINGLE ONE has some reason to look at the program. Hurt has his buddy here. Romeo is local. Garland has IU connections. Keion is local and his dad knows Schilling. Watford's family knows/loves IU. Any of these 5* guys that we showed interest in that didn't otherwise have interest in IU? No longer interested. We're not making runs at random OADs.

I'd love to stop talking about whether or not Crean was doing his job.

Yeah, but it doesn't have to be the same quality of evidence for NCAA infractions. I'm sure you saw my post yesterday about the murky standard of proof established by the NCAA Infractions Committee. It's probably that way on purpose, so they can rule however they please. But it's not like there aren't established ways of fact finding that are less stringent than Federal Rules of Evidence. Looking at it, it's odd that they provided so much information about Pitino when they didn't even charge him. Maybe they are going to spend some resources on the infractions side of things while they're here.

Oh yeah, the UCLA dominance was the result of one guy, Sam Gilbert. During their dynasty he provided players with cars, clothes, airline tickets, and even abortions for their girlfriends. When Knight created his dominant programs, he was up against this. Pretty impressive. I'm on the side that wants to give Crean credit if we learn he was running a clean program. He had expectations to compete with the cheaters. He could see that the cheaters were getting the recruits through nefarious means, and there was no punishment from the NCAA even though the corruption was widely known and accepted. And truly, if we are one of the few great programs to come through this unscathed, then you absolutely need to be thankful to Crean that he did not succumb to the same temptations that so many others do. Way better than what Sampson left us with.

Just because we're on the subject... Part of why the FBI is so incredibly thorough, and unwilling to even pursue less-than-airtight information is that they have an extremely high standard of proof to achieve in order for a prosecution to succeed. This is the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard that you so often hear. This literally means that you can't conceive of anything being the truth other than the crime as described and proven by the prosecution. (Again, Stuhoo, jump in if I'm off base.) To get there, they have to navigate through the evidentiary rules that are set up to ensure that the information is extremely reliable. Criminal cases have a very high standard of proof. Often in civil matters, the standard is going to be "a preponderance of the evidence," meaning it is just more likely than not that something happened. Literally, if you're 51% convinced something happened, even if there are other plausible explanations, then you've got enough to meet the standard. This lower standard of proof is why OJ was found not guilty in criminal court, but the civil case brought against him for the same actions was successful. The NCAA is not in a court of law. They do not have to worry about evidence rules, and their standard of proof isn't very clear. They can rely on hearsay, etc. Further, they are operating under a standard of proof which is much lower than that which a prosecutor must prove. From the NCAA: "[the] standard of proof is whether the information is credible, persuasive and of a nature that reasonable people would rely upon in the conduct of serious affairs." That kind of language is so wide-open to interpretation that an attorney wouldn't know where to begin. In this case, information gained by the FBI in their investigation would certainly seem to meet that standard, even where it is not useful in the prosecution of the criminal case. Perhaps, some of these other interviews Brass Cannon is discussing would meet that standard, enough to cause a finding of infractions which would lead to sanctions. Here's a helpful PDF I'm sourcing this information from: http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/BBD_Comm.Infractions.pdf

Stuhoo, maybe you can clarify something else here. I think there is a misunderstanding about FBI vs NCAA. We're dealing with two separate forums here. Stuhoo is letting us know what to expect the FBI to be able to do in order to successfully prosecute a criminal case. These guys do not like losing, and they do not like allocating resources (basically the time of their employees) towards losing efforts. Stuhoo is making clear that getting criminal prosecutions going under the circumstances Brass Cannon is describing is difficult. An entirely separate forum exists that is probably more interesting to most of us. That of, what is to become of the teams that are found to be cheating. This is in the jurisdiction of the NCAA. They are the governing body that would make these kinds of calls. They aren't built to do what the FBI can do to create a case, and so they have to obtain the information in a different manner. The FBI is not going to invite the NCAA to sit in on interrogations. The FBI is not going to give a better deal to Chuck Person if he tells the NCAA what other programs are cheating. The FBI isn't concerned with that. I am not the guy to say how the NCAA will get the information. They hadn't even launched an "investigation" of their own, and haven't--to my knowledge--made any statement yet. I think they're going to get the information at the same time as the rest of us, after the FBI releases it. Another question for Stuhoo: How could you see the FBI snaring other coaches/programs under these circumstances?

1. I was joking. Looks like not very well. 2. Your insight has been awesome. No reason for us to wallow in ignorance and speculation when we've got a contributing member that understands what's happening 3. I wonder if Grant Gelon will follow Crean to UofL

Guys.... Please stop correcting Stuhoo on this stuff. He's made clear over the past day that he helps criminal organizations navigate these laws with impunity. He knows exactly how the coaches/agents/shoe salesmen have laundered the money such that the Feds can't touch them. Let's just thank him for his expertise rather than questioning his advice and morals.

It begins. Yesterday, when the news was fresh, the Purdue boards were already talking about all the 5* decommits Painter is going to pull as a result of this.

Just saw on a UofL board that they are now ready to let Pitino go to make room for Brad Stevens to come take over the program. Glad to know we're not the only delusional fanbase. You know who we're not talking about? Arizona. I read an article on what they're up against, and it is BAD. They are lucky that Louisville is here to take most of the heat, because they are the next biggest program at this point. In their case, it looks like it was pervasive for years. And you look at the crazy recruiting classes Sean has pulled, and yeah, this connects the dots (if you really needed them connected). I know we're all feeling pretty secure that Archie is too new in all this to really have anything that could stick. Just the same, his brother is right in the middle of it. It has to affect him.

I agree. I think this is just too much. UofL fans are sick of the program now, and I wouldn't be surprised if the local pressure for him to stay home wanes. Not exactly how I wanted IU to win this recruiting battle, but I'll take it.

The guy just said that as far as he knows, the NCAA had no idea the investigation was happening until today.

Calm down, Ramsey

"I'm sorry, could you repeat that? Preferably in the direction of that decorative fern on the table."

So you're saying you've been charged with wire fraud and corruption a time or two. I had my suspicions...

So this is why we heard there are rumblings that the BoT at UL want Pitino out.

Oh yeah! Best Bryant memory was beating Kentucky in the Round of 32, and Thomas holding out his jersey saying "This is why I'm here!" Awesome day. Loved that team.

Maybe he's ready to turnover a new leaf.

Hoosier Guy is one of my favorite posters. No shame in positivity! As long as you know his style

Oh right on. Yeah two IU picks, two say foggy, all in the last two days. I thought maybe you read a thing on a forum, but maybe this is better. Combined with our own resident insider/savant, I like it.

Well share you dork

He helped legitimize the program, and was a big part of making us relevant again. He still comes back, he has a good NBA career, and is one of our success stories. He continues to be an ambassador for IU ball. This question is foolish, and a dumb thing to debate when a current local stud is considering committing.

This was obviously fake news. But Grantland isn't necessarily all fake news. It's by a contributor "Spike Friedman." Also funny that back in 2013 Crean got lumped in with "all the best coaches."

“I could just feel [Indiana head coach] Tom Crean looking at me as I was at the line,” said MSU guard Gary Harris, who missed a chance to tie the game at the line after being fouled on a 3-pointer. Harris went on to explain, “I’m from Indiana and the guy recruited me hard, and I really wanted to go to IU, but then you see him smile, and it’s not a real full smile, it’s like a creepy half smile. And you start looking at his hairline, and the way it goes way back but he still gets all that volume in his hair, and you start realizing something ain’t right. And then you realize Tom Izzo looks kind of the same, and so does Calipari, and so does Pitino, and you start to wonder whether your trapped in some sort of nightmare, where all of the best college basketball coaches out there are the same guy. Or maybe avatars of the same demigod? And that maybe there is no free will, and you’ll always end up playing basketball for Tom Crean, or whatever it is that Tom Crean represents, assuming it’s supernatural, which I now do. So, yeah, I missed some big free throws, but I had a lot on my mind.”

I don't need anything to happen for me to know how far we've fallen. The Mastodons beat us last year. We gave up home-court for a first round out in the NIT. There is a legitimate debate across the country as to whether or not our blue blood status should be revoked. Flip that. We landed Archie, the prodigious young coach that turned down a bunch of offers to P5 schools until a worthy offer came along. That we landed him legitimizes that we are still one of the programs with pull. That we have an entire starting 5 of promising recruits already signed on for 2018 shows that we have not lost our luster. Recruiting isn't just some allocation of players to the best programs. There are a ton of other factors. The fact that we are even in on Romeo has everything to do with our proximity to his hometown. Honestly there are a number of fortuitous circumstances that have put us in a good position with some great recruits. On the same token, Vandy is very lucky that the Garlands moved to Nashville with their talented middle-schooler in time for him to connect to the city and have interest in the program. I think the "slap in the face" comments are unwarranted. The program earned its lessened statute in 1,000 decisions since 1987. We're lucky that we have enough capital to work with to rebuild this thing. I agree with you regarding the possible decommitment. It puts a din on what is otherwise an upbeat time for the program. It may even cause one of the Indiana recruits to leave, and create an instant reputation of Archie that could hurt him. Just the same, I'm not going to view this in a vacuum, either. There are a million factors. Two months ago we had zero recruits, and weren't sure that we'd get any. We watched Robbie Carmody, Darius Bazley, Brandon Johns, Cole Swider, and I'm sure others I'm forgetting choose different programs that we view lower on the totem pole. We weren't desperate, but we weren't sure about anything. Obviously, things changed in a hurry. We started to adjust expectations somewhat from Top 100 guys to Top 200 guys, and the Aaron Henry offer came through. At this point, we got swiftly assured that we're not dead. Race. Jerome. Damezi. Then Robert. Then Jake. You can't fault Archie for having these offers out there, and rather loose restrictions on acceptance. He didn't know (just as we didn't) the strength we'd have. Did we end up with 5 quick recruits while two 5* players are on the line? You betcha. But I can see why it happened. And you have to wonder, if we were sitting here without the other 5 commits, would Darius and Romeo still see the luster with the program? Maybe not. Dang I'm long winded. Anyway, I think Archie is a straight shooter. I think he does view success of the program as his #1 objective. And I don't think he's going to work to achieve that objective by screwing over his players. It's just a situation that we'll work through.