Old Friend

This is a problem with many young players. Especially ones who have only recently had any modicum of success. Moore strikes me as a kid who's not necessarily into working as hard as he needs to. I hear the same things you probably do. The bottom line in this whole dialogue is yesterday's performance isn't going to get it done. Indiana fans (rightfully so) will have little patience for a team that can't score, doesn't move with purpose, and can't find shooters. Yesterday should have been an embarrassment to Archie Miller; and I will say again if he thinks he will succeed at Indiana trying to win every game 52-49, he is mistaken. He needs kids who understand the game and not just the sport. He needs scorers and shooters. His guards right now are pitiful sometimes, and yesterday in long stretches.

Bob Knight was not exactly "good with the media."

Pack line defensive teams have generally had a hard time scoring consistently; and if Archie thinks Indiana fans will be happy with a bunch of games scoring in the 50's, he is sadly mistaken. Our team has to be either exceptional defensively or play with a better offensive tempo. If we play poorly on defense and slow on offense, it looks like that. Awful to watch. That was a horrid game. Zero offensive flow; no intensity on defense. Poorly played, poorly coached. I am disappointed. Mostly in our senior guards. That was an abysmal performance by both.

1) Save the first 2 Crean seasons, we are the worst shooting Indiana team I can remember 2) That offense is awful. Pathetically deliberate and has no flow 3) Senior leadership from Newkirk and Johnson is pathetic. Other than that, a great half.

Whoever says "yes" loses this debate badly. He did not "handle" 2 future top 10 picks. He was able to score in the post, but he played just 5 minutes in the first half due to foul trouble (see : slow feet), took just 7 shots compared with 24 for Duke's bigs, and together, Bagley and Carter had 43 points and 22 rebounds. We all love our own, but De'Ron Davis is not close; nor does he have anything close to the overall game Bryant does. Bryant runs the floor far better; he is a better shot blocker, a better defender, and he has a jump shot to 22 feet. Bryant is also a better FT shooter. I know some NBA guys aren't, but they are all worlds more athletic than Davis is, so DD can't afford THAT weakness, too. DD is a solid college post player with a ceiling. He is nowhere close to an NBA forward. Take the "no" in this debate.

I came in late to this discussion and admittedly haven't read the whole thing; but if this joke is what I think it is, it's damned funny.

You watched last night's game, right?

And Guy-Marc Michele among others.

He was a project and one of those guys Crean found he probably felt was a diamond in the rough and out-thought the room. Clifton Moore was not highly regarded for many reasons, but one is he's just not ready. He's thin, he's not strong with the ball; and frankly, he's not all that talented. A 6'10" kid who's better on the perimeter. We saw last night how valuable paint bigs are. InsidetheHall wrote about him as a "sleeper." Yawn. Crean and his "sleepers." I've kinda' had enough of "sleepers." I'd rather know what I'm getting, whatever that is.

No way to really understand this until you experience it. I would bet he's got the full appreciation now; and he can begin a new approach to recruiting and "sell" of his program. There's just no way to do that until you truly know...and now, he does. Indiana had to play a perfect last 10 minutes to win that game; and simply couldn't. The first 30 minutes were very predictable. Nobody's coming into Assembly Hall and blowing Indiana out anymore. But you can't turn it over, miss free throws, and reach on defense time after time and have any chance to beat that Duke team. Indiana battled. We are so much better than we were 3 weeks ago it's scary. Lots to build on, and I'm disappointed we didn't give ourselves a chance down the stretch. I hope a few 16-18 year old kids were watching. Indiana is in good hands.

Tevin Coleman and Josh Howard are both as good as Kamara is. He can have that at Indiana. He certainly didn't have that kind of talent THIS season; and again, as I said above, he had a bad line, poor QB play, inexperienced skill players; and not a ton of speed. Not much Bill Belichick can do with that.

The last question first : If you think those were the primary routes, you're wrong. There are always check down routes; and many following blocking responsibility. Those are rarely stick routes. Designed for YAC. Primary routes are generally stick routes or beyond. Some may have been secondary routes'; but seriously...you think an experienced coach teaches primary routes to stay short of the sticks? Come on....you know better than that. Our inability to win one on one matchups was FAR more a problem than play calling; and that's neither on DeBord nor Allen. Moving forward, it is. What risks would you have liked to have seen? We had a bad line, poor QB play, only one true experienced skill player (Cobbs); and we were generally slow. You don't think Allen - a defensive guy - had some say in the matter? You don't think he mandated the offense generally take care of the ball; manage the games; and let his defense be the catalyst? If you watched this season and disagree with that, I'm not sure what you were watching. You may be used to opening things up; but there's a new sheriff in town, and he's a defensive guy. If you want to place blame...place it with Allen. Not DeBord. Open it up....how? You were in the Ramsey camp all year; and you watched him struggle to throw the ball downfield. Right? Lagow was asked to make back shoulder throw after back shoulder throw; and you may have noticed our receivers' inability to create separation....save Philyor once in a while. As far as the QB draws, I have no idea whether those were called plays or audibles; and neither do you. I know at least one was a broken play. I think you're awfully quick to judge a guy without taking account all (or even most) of the facts. Frustration can warp that. I get it. But seriously....what risks and opening up would you have liked to have seen from this group of players? Please be specific and explain why they would have worked. I'm curious to know what you would have done differently if you were in the chair.

You really think DeBord had nothing to do with it, don't you? His offenses were better than those with Peyton Manning, and national championship team w Tee Martin. Stop me when Alvin Kamara and Josh Dobbs are hall of famers. If you're telling me on one hand talent is why he was successful; you have to give on the other hand that lack of it prevented success. But that would require sound logic and unbiased reason.

Hard to say. Agree with you on this....just not sure what he could have done to adapt. Our receivers didn't win one on one battles very often, Ian Thomas was injured a lot and the other TE's were mediocre at best; our RB's never gained any true foot-hold; and our QB's were mediocre at their best. Seemed Lagow and Ramsey were asked to do two totally different things; and that HAS to be difficult on an OC. Two years ago, I was critical of Wilson for not having a QB in the program who could immediately replace Suffold. We still don't. Physically, Lagow could; but he was obviously better with his arm than his head or his legs. The guys on the broadcast Saturday said that first play was likely scripted and Lagow never looked away from Timian. Who knows who shoulders the blame for that? Did we run a jet sweep or fake jet sweep with Philyor all year? What was our screen package? Like I said earlier, I fear Allen is so defensively focused that our offense will take a hit. People don't come to watch would-be .500 teams play defense. He needs to figure that out.

This is really good and very fair. Well done. I think we need a RB and a QB next season. I'm not convinced the QB is Ramsey, either. Dink and dunk was exactly what he did, and he was flat bad throwing the ball down field. I saw a similar review in the Indianapolis Star today, and Reese Taylor wasn't mentioned. That kid needs a shot, and I heard he is projected as a CB at Indiana, which would be a horrible waste of talent with the ball in his hands. Indiana showed with Antwaan Randle El you can score with a 5'10" kid who can run like Taylor can. Hard for me to be overly critical of DeBord. With a bad line and mediocre QB's, it's hard to score points; and even tougher to be creative because you have no idea whether or not plays can develop with pressure in our backfield all the time. I wonder how limited DeBord really felt? His offense at Tennessee set records, so I'm not in the camp that says the guy forgot how to coach. I am skeptical of what's to come. Allen has seemed so committed to defense that the offense has taken a significant step backward. I don't think that's arguable. I haven't spent much time on the "who's up next" game, but I do know our 2018 recruiting class is thin on offensive linemen, which is what we need most of all. We do have a big WR coming, which excites me. Anyway, great post. Well done.

Being nice is terrific and I admire you for it. A wonderful, admirable, and respectable trait. Except as it relates to those people. Honestly, the more I talk to them....and I think this has been true for most of my adult life....the more I can't stand them. For the reasons you stated and for their selective arrogance. Remember when they were "basketball on grass": under Joe Tiller and had some success on the football field? Like Notre Dame fans when they're good, people came out of the woodwork and just talked and talked and yapped and bragged as if they'd been true black and gold all along. Yet when Darrell Hazell was the coach, they couldn't give tickets away. I remember specifically at a couple of bowl games in the Mallory era hearing compliments about our fans and how classy they were. Maybe fair weather; but there wasn't the braggadocious and very exaggerated self importance those people show every time they have even a modicum of success. They are an embarrassment to themselves most of the time. Just laugh and be glad you aren't them. (Un-necessary disclaimer. I do not like Purdue fans. In case anybody was wondering. Anyone who feels the need to wear black gloves and carry a hammer to a basketball game is joke fodder for me. Please feel free to contact me with questions.)

All of them are. Don't kid yourself. Any fan base that chants "IU Sucks" when they're playing Western Arkansas has a problem well beyond anything they can solve. The arrogance of that fan base having never won a damned thing outside of a conference championship is laughable. They DO take more pleasure in the failure of IU than they do their own success. That's not your imagination. They get less coverage in newspapers around here for a reason. Radio shows don't talk about Purdue for a reason. Their complex is real and always will be. They are little brother with a drum, banging it and bragging about the size of it hoping someone will care. Now, I HATE the "hoo hoo hoo Hoosier!" chant. Hate it. But at least we're not https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=boiler up

Solid performance today. Lagow haters are strangely absent. Wish the defense was younger, and I'd be excited for next season.

IU 84 ASU 60

Indiana 77 USF 63

Indiana 27 Rutgers 9

Cultural change takes time. All basketball players are not cut from the same cloth, and a coaching change usually comes with growing pains. One problem we have here at Indiana is the one we saw in 2000 came with improvement; not because of the coach, but because of the leadership of the team that was left behind. We all saw what happened when that leadership left the building. We were spoiled thinking an experienced team can make a seamless transition. It will happen. Patience is not a strong suit of mine. But....

Fans losing their minds over recruits doesn't help anything and nothing anyone says here can have any positive effect. We all hope Langford chooses Indiana. If he does; wonderful. But I do hope some folks realize their obsessions and negativity can be harmful. Recruiting is a huge issue and I completely get it. But damn....some of the panic I see around the various forums is downright scary.

Robert Johnson may not have. But I promise you kids from around here know. Tradition is tradition. People who truly understand will always know. That's exactly why any coach at IU needs to recruit from the inside out. This is a unique place with a unique culture. If a kid doesn't understand that, he'll look like Johnson looks sometimes. Like a disinterested bystander. DIsclaimer : This is my opinion, and I've never wavered from it. I know many disagree, but in my own head, my evidence speaks for itself. So many players beginning with Bracey Wright et al. Has anyone seen he or Robert Strickland since they graduated? Those are 2 examples, but they were "help is on the way." Those two started my belief (it was unspoken before) that Indiana needed to recruit from the inside out. Culture matters. In my opinion.

That was certainly a factor, but if we want to be what we all want to be; we can't have an apathetic student section. I agree with you on the tickets. There weren't as many available. But that's why I said they were spoiled. You're also right about their age; but again, fair weather fans are fair weather fans. The Paint Crew is busy and full no matter what that team looks like. The fans create the atmosphere. The atmosphere creates the environment and is part of the culture. That matters to recruits, and it matters to our ability to get national TV games, etc. The opposite of love is not hate. It's apathy; and I will not stay quiet if our students become apathetic. We all want Romeo Langford. I promise you, that kid does not want to play in front of a fan base which is only with the team win or win. No kid does. It matters.