Old Friend

Indiana 84 St. F 71

I disagree about Nebraska;s facilities, but I'll say Indiana has done about the best it could. Our facilities are MILES better than they were before. And some of the most technologically advanced in the country.

Again, there's more to it than the raw numbers. See above.....I laid it out. Take a peek and then we can discuss it. It's not all Glass' mess.

I don't disagree with any of this, really. It just doesn't say "fire Glass" to me. Northwestern did it without being in the same division as Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State. Indiana is basically 0-3 starting every season and has to go 6-3 just to get a bowl. They're hamstrung. We got screwed. We have (along with Maryland and Rutgers) the worst and hardest uphill battle in college sports and it's not close. Damn, man. You and I are starting to agree more and more. What are we going to do now????

Women's basketball and baseball were a joke for decades before Glass. As was the field. It wasn't even a good high school field; and now we host NCAA Regionals there. The baseball program is worlds better than it was. Women's basketball much the same. Men's basketball is more complicated (see above) than just blaming Glass; and football has had its own issues plus the horribly aligned divisions put Indiana, Rutgers, and Maryland way behind the 8 ball. I guess it's just not as simple as saying "blame Glass.:

Everything here is your opinion. Glass was between a rock and a hard place in 2015; and then Crean won the Big Ten the following year. He fired him when it made sense to fire him. Allen has coached 2 seasons and a lot of things are improving. You can't just fire coaches because you believe they blow a game or two with bad decisions or mistakes. (I think you can for the cheap way his teams play...but that's another discussion) If you do that, you'll never be able to hire anyone because nobody will coach in that environment. I get that you're pissed; but it doesn't work that way. It's not a reality TV show. Both Allen and Miller have coached just 2 seasons. I don't disagree with your assessment of Allen, but despite that, he won't be fired for those reasons yet. YET.

Okay, but that's the superficial way to debate it. See above. How much of this is really on Glass? In a couple of years? I'm with you. But he didn't hire Crean, and Crean left IU with a team that finished 10th in the conference and no roster. Archie has had ONE recruiting class play for him; and despite the record STILL almost made the NCAA Tournament. Help me with Glass' culpability in where the basketball team is. He fired Crean when he should have; and both major sport coaches have coached 2 seasons. What are we missing? Broaden the argument to include all of the facts and details.... not just the headlines.

Okay, let;s start with football. You and I already know we look at this differently, so let's just discuss it and forget the battle. Indiana went to a bowl game in 1993. Didn't go to another until 2007. They've been to two under Glass and his hire of Kevin Wilson was a good one. SO while "just two bowl appearances" isn't what any of us want; it's double what Indiana had done since 1993. I'll submit IU Football has been a disaster for most of its history; so this isn't a Glass problem; and in fact, under Glass, the program has actually improved in many ways, not the least of which is in facilities. They are recruiting better. They have better assistant coaches... Unless you believe Indiana can be a top football program (and I do not believe that based on over 100 years of history), it is what it is and it's no greater disaster now than it has ever been. In fact, I'd say it's far better....but yes. Tom Allen has to win more. No doubt about it. All of that said, the Big Ten has screwed Indiana football. I'm not sure what Glass can do about that. His hire of Allen can be called into question; but we're still just in year 2 of that tenure and recruiting has taken a giant step forward. IU's division will play a much larger role in our success or lack of it than anything else, and again, that's not a Glass issue. Glass didn't hire Tom Crean. We can all complain about his lack of foresight to not hire Brad Stevens, but that's a little nitpicky. Blaming Glass for men's basketball's disaster doesn't make sense to me. Crean did just enough to keep his job for 9 seasons. Yeah, he needed time to start over. Then he beat #1 ranked Kentucky. Then he went to the Sweet 16. Then he won the Big Ten and went to the Sweet 16 with a team that was ranked #1 in the country. Then he finished 8th the following season. Then, 2 years later, he won the Big Ten again. Then he finished 10th. And then he was fired. Help me with your perspective on when Glass was to blame for not firing Crean or what Glass should have done to mitigate the disaster? I don't see a "good time" to have fired Crean before he did. And since Glass didn't hire Crean, I find it very difficult to blame him for his first 9 seasons on the job. Then he hires Archie. We are in year 2. Crean's last recruiting class was Durham, Smith, and Moore. When he left, so did Annunoby, Bryant, and Blackmon. Davis tore his achilles., Hunter missed an entire season. Thompson has basically missed two,. We were reliant on DeVonte Green and freshmen, one of whom was only here because he had to be, to compliment Morgan; and it was successful for a while....but unsustainable when Phinisee went down with a concussion leaving IU with 2 guards and thin everywhere. Moore, Forrester, and Anderson were dead weight all season. I suspect one or more of those kids will be gone. McRoberts was hurt all year. Fitzner was what he was. A 5 PPG guy from St. Mary's who was over his head against better players...brought to Indiana to fill a couple of needs and was probably counted on more than was fair. I just don't see Fred Glass as culpable in the disaster unless he lets this go on too long. He fired Crean for lack of consistent results. Why wouldn't he terminate Archie for the same reason? He can't do that in year 2, and I know you know that as well as I do.

YOU don't care. As an athletic director...HE cares. Because he HAS to care. HIS bosses care. You don't think Indiana fans cared when we were in the college world series a few years ago?? That's idiotic. Women's basketball set an attendance record this year by a wide margin. They had a great crowd with them when they won the NIT and had set attendance records in prior seasons as well. You don't think people care about Lily King? Seriously? Football is paralyzed by its division. That has nothing to do with Glass. You're smoking something if you think Indiana can consistently finish higher than 4th in its own division. That's a reality you just need to swallow. Until divisions are re-aligned, the situation is what it is. You can b*tch or you can accept it. I know Fred Glass. Known him for over 20 years. He does understand that. It's ridiculous of you to think he doesn't, as is thinking YOU know the answers and have the understanding but he doesn't. You really believe someone who ran the Capital Improvement Board in Indianapolis doesn't understand that basketball (a top revenue producer in the country) and football are his main revenue producers?? Seriously, man. Get a grip. His job is to oversee and succeed at 24 sports. Not 2. IU produces plenty of revenue....so he's doing his job just fine in that regard. Why do you think he fired Tom Crean?? You need to get an understanding of your own. Why would you bring up Shaka Smart and Cuonzo Martin?? What do they have to do with anything? Smart is a system coach who's got a .500 record at Texas and has done nothing there. He'll be fired soon. If Archie doesn't win, he will be too. What's your point?

No..that's not what he's judged on. Maybe by you. How do you know there would be no interest? Do you know he ran the Indianapolis Capital Improvement Board before he came to Indiana? Indy's been kinda' successful with sports and conventions; and he's largely to thank for a lot of that. Don't believe your own judgement of him is everyone else's judgement of him. Or better yet, look beyond what you consider important. I don't pretend he's done a great job with everything; but judging Glass because of what happened on the basketball court in Archie's second season with a flawed and injured roster is pretty narrow. Sorry...

Okay, let's boil this down. When Archie was hired, many people here and elsewhere lauded it because he was thought of as a great and young up and coming coach. He may still be, despite this season's record. How can you take what Archie has done (with ONE recruiting class of his own), criticize the roster, which is still largely Crean's, and extrapolate that into "what a terrible athletic director?" This roster was flawed, injured, and exposed when Phinisee went down. There is a long explanation of that sentence, but I've already explained in another thread. Has nothing to do with Fred Glass. He didn't hire Crean. Listen, I hate the athlete bill of rights. It's ridiculous and paralyzing to coaches. I hate the kumbaya attitude and that there doesn't seem to be a priority on winning in the major sports. But here are some facts : 1) Even in football, Indiana is bringing in better players than ever before. This 2019 recruiting class is its highest ranked in school history. 2) Last year, for the 6th consecutive year, Indiana set its own graduation success rate. 91% of our athletes graduate. Fans may not prioritize that, but the powers that be do. And Indiana had perfect scores in 2018 in 10 sports. Including men's basketball. 3) This coming season, Indiana will spend more on its football program than ever before. For example, Kyle DeBoer will make more than any assistant coach at IU in any sport. 4) For 5 seasons, Tom Crean led the Big Ten in recruiting spending and for 2 seasons was top 3 in the country. Our coaches are supported with the resources they need. 5) The baseball program is having unprecedented success in recent years, 6) Women's basketball won the post-season NIT a year ago. 7) Indiana has one of the best aquatics centers in the country and is nationally competitive in both men's and women's swimming and diving. 8) Men's soccer remains nationally competitive year in and year out 9) Women's softball - historically awful, is 25-6 and ranked #19 in the country right now. 10) Indiana University has perhaps the most technologically advanced facilities in America. 11) IU sports properties is still a top 10 revenue producer in the country and men's basketball top 5. Now....there are warts, to be sure. He's cheesy. He seems to fit the "everybody gets a trophy" persona. BUT..he did fire Tom Crean because results weren't happening and I think he does know men's basketball has to win. But let's not hold him accountable for being a terrible athletic director. He's far from it.

I'm more concerned with style. The ACC, for example plays a wide open style that's not as physical. Much more fun to watch. Historically, some Big Ten teams have gotten in trouble with fouls because they play a physical game and NCAA refs don't allow it. Indiana needs more talent to be sure, but I'm not sure the Big Ten doesn't need to change the way they officiate and perhaps the kinds of athletes they recruit.

As far as kids who contribute, we lose Morgan and Romeo. We gain Hunter, Jackson-Davis, and Franklin for now and perhaps more. Thompson will be healthy. As will Phinisee and Davis. I don't see how we can be worse. Morgan was out of position all season. Romeo showed he is pretty limited for a kid ranked as highly as he was. Franklin had a senior season at least equal to Romeo; and Jackson-Davis is a flat out player. I'm not seeing worse. I'm not seeing Big Ten champ or anything either; but I don't think....21-10 is out of the question.

One mediocre defender can be masked. We won't play many teams with 5 guys who can beat a defender one on one and score enough for it to matter. No defender is going to be THAT bad. If a kid is a lights out shooter, we need him. Not necessarily THIS one; but I wouldn't hold out for a "complete" player if we can get a great shooter. Romeo is not a very good defender much of the time. Sheehey wasn't, as another example.

I'm telling you....Dakich isn't as wrong or as bad as a lot of people seem to think he is. He calls it like he sees it, and I think his viewpoint and my own are close on a lot of things. "Experts" don't generally have any more knowledge than fans do. Some of them have never played competitive sports in their lives, so I KNOW they know less than I do. There's a lot more to sports than highlight films and things you can measure with a stopwatch, tape, or scale.

Amen to that. Absolutely 100% agree. Been true for a long time and I've called a lot of people out for believing that simply because a kid wears "INDIANA" on his jersey, he should be a terrific college player immediately. I don't know if you know my history or not; but things got very heated on another board because I said : Tijan Jobe, Bawa Muniru, Mike White, Jessean Gray-Ashley, Ben Allen, and a few others were stiffs and that Crean spends most of his time trying to out think the room. Lots of guys believed exactly as you said....that players were better than they really were because they were OUR players. Probably the same people who stalk on Twitter and then boo kids when they pick other schools. Embarrassing to say the least.

I was very on Phinisee's side a couple of years ago, so I'd say I was one giving him praise. I don't know if it was me or someone else you're referring to; but I knew he was a solid player who would be a terrific college guard. Franklin will be a solid college player too, in my opinion. Watching both, I honestly don't know what Romeo can do that Franklin can't. Romeo may have done it for 4 years; but as a senior? I'm not sure I would buy Romeo was a better player by any significant margin for that one season. And Franklin's longer and plays better defense.

I never saw one person who thought Gelon would contribute as a freshman. That said, your overall point is correct. Fans expect freshmen to step on campus and play like college players; and that happens far less frequently than not. It's why teams that have seniors (without a roster of one and done's) generally do well. Who has said not getting Keion is fine because we have Franklin? Are you creating things so you can argue against them? It's a little surprising that you'd bring up a point that says "how much better Keion would have made us" a season after Romeo....didn't. I'll bet you anything you want to bet Indiana wins more than 15 next season.

I'm going 180* different on this one. Player development will now take a front seat, and coaches who can take raw talent and develop it will have the advantage. Victor Oladipo is Indiana's best example (although credit for his development goes to the coaches for that 19U team he played for and not Crean, but for the sake of the story....). As a freshman? Not close to ready. As a junior? The #2 pick in the draft. The reality is there are really only a handful of kids who are NBA ready, and not that many more who are G League ready out of high school. College basketball players, like college baseball players can develop and get better; and it'll be more common for everyone to be pulling on the same end of the rope. I think recruiting becomes MORE valuable than it is now; and I think it'll become more localized, which will help Indiana.

I'm convinced "experts" are self titled. He plays in 4A against D1 kids every night. I saw him score an easy 30 in 24 minutes against Lawrence North 2 weeks ago. He's good. Much better than Anderson.

Not quite...but close. Phinisee has an IQ I could see a long time ago. Franklin started as a 4 and ended as a combo guard, so it's hard to be that confident in his IQ as a guard. We'll see; but he's freaky long, very athletic, he can guard, and he's git terrific vision. He's better than his ranking....I'll say that. He is not the "shooter" Indiana needs, but he can shoot.

Who are "they?" See above.

Here's where we differ. I saw Anderson last year and I saw a kid stand around and who I said openly on here wasn't ready. I said Phinisee would surprise because I saw him several times. Same with Franklin. I do have an idea on Franklin because I have seen him and seen him against D1 kids. You may not have; but it's not foolish at all if you have.

Hell froze over tonight. You and I agree.....except I'm here to tell you, Franklin will play and he will contribute,