Old Friend

Not here to do anything but point things out : 1) Indiana played less than 5 games this season with every available player healthy. If it wasn't Thompson, it was Davis. If it wasn't Davis it was Green. If it wasn't Green it was Phinisee (and I don't think he was really "back" for a few weeks). If it wasn't Phinisee it was McRoberts. Then it was Langford. And Thompson again. And Morgan for a short time 2) Morgan - as good as he was, played out of position for 2 years. Since we had trouble shooting for whatever reason, he got doubled a lot and couldn't be as effective. That's just a sad truth. Davis was not yet mobile enough (and may never be) to allow Morgan to play the 4 and have a consistent post partner. 3) Romeo's agenda hurt. He was very clearly not on the same page with the others; and I will submit a terribly disappointing player, despite scoring 16.5. (And I don't buy that he was out with a bad back for one second) 4) Because Davis was limited, we had very little depth in the front court, and were forced to play Fitzner in spots he just wasn't used to because Moore is Godawful and Forrester just wasn't ready yet. 5) Durham, a sophomore was our only high-minutes player who was healthy all season, and not only were we thin up front, we were equally so in the back court. 6) Not having Hunter hurt us. No if's, and's or but's. Especially so with the OTHER injuries and Anderson not being close to ready. (I sawe that guy stand around in high school, and it worried me. Reminded me a lot of how Jeremy Hollowell played. In a perfect world, he and Moore would transfer, and we'd add a couple of grad transfers or incoming freshmen. One big and a couple of shooters to replace the would-be 5 openings we'll have to add to Franklin and Jackson-Davis. 7) Sometimes...the pieces just don't fit. We had pieces that didn't fit, others that weren't ready to play; others who tried to do things they can't do, and it just didn't work. I truly believe Archie learned some things this season. It was subtle, but I saw growth in him and a couple of players, including Green, as much as he frustrated the holy hell out of me. I'm here to tell you....Frankin will help. Who knows what opportunity he'll get, but the last game I saw him play was against Lawrence North, who has at least 2 D1 kids, and he scored an easy 30. He did what Romeo does and he's a better shooter. Not THE shooter we need, but better; and he's very long and explosive. Jackson-Davis is also going to help. With those 2 and Hunter, I already think we gain more than we lose; and if we add other pieces, that gap widens. Plus another year of improvement and maturity for Green, Phinisee, Durham, Davis, and Thompson? And a 3rd year in a system with coaches who are more comfortable? I like our chances to be better. I also think adding multi-year players is a good thing and the new option for high school players will help Indiana. We can get better talent than Purdue. We simply need to so simple things like value the ball and rebound. Shooting will come...Archie HAS to prioritize that, and he knows. Lots of reasons this season was difficult, and I don't think they're excuses.

Trends are only valid if the pieces are the same. Romeo had a different agenda. Good riddance, Good luck, but goodbye. Lots of injuries and lots of Green/Smith who simply weren't consistent. Davis, Green, Phinisee, and Thompson all missed time; Hunter didn't play at all. I'm here to tell you Franklin will really help. As will Jackson-Davis. As will Hunter. I believe we add more than we lose and we're not done. Others will improve. Anyone who believes the sky is falling, I'd ask to give it another season. I'd bet Indiana is a much better team a year from now. (I'm betting hard on Franklin having seen him play. He can do what Romeo can do for the most part...and he's just as long and athletic)

This season combined the perfect storm of the wrong guys out against the wrong teams, a thin bench, a shooting problem epidemic, and different agendas. They played better late, and with the additions and a healthy Hunter, I expect we'll see next season where we truly are.

We're winners Indiana 76 WSU 61

This is the real problem. Most of us are sports fans who want our teams to win. The BOT is a political group (which actually includes someone who is a realtor's assistant.....that's her profession) who wants to keep their positions and oversee a university for purposes which have nothing to do with the success of anything.

I'm not following your numbers. He averages 3 TO's a game and until the last 6 games, was shooting 36% from the floor. (According to ESPN's stats), and I just showed you today he gave away at least 5 in the first half despite having a good game from a scoring perspective. He has 12 games with 3 or more turnovers, and he does take a lot of bad shots. Not sure why it doesn't make sense? Doesn't matter because as I said in the other thread, we won today in large part because of him and we'd have lost in large part because of him. He's just an enigma of a player.

He's good. Just one of those kids you could just see when he was younger. When his team played New Albany when he and Romeo were sophomores, I could just tell. Watching him the next 2 seasons, it was obvious. He's explosive quick and smart as hell. I love and loved his demeanor most of all. Still impressed by him when he's healthy. He makes mistakes too, but he's solid. I think he'll end up one of the best point guards we've seen at Indiana.

I took exception only to your comment that it's not true he gives away 5-6 possessions every game. He does. See my post in today's game thread We won today in large part because of him. Had we lost, it would have been in large part because of him. I've been coaching a long time. I don't just "take the bad." Teams don't get better if you accept consistent mistakes

Don't want to neglect mentioning the unbelievable defense we played late today. That was impressive.

Yep. If he can just limit the "bad DeVonte." He's so good when he just plays under control and so completely awful when he makes bad decisions, lazy passes, and tries to do things on his own. Today he showed both. Enough to help us win and enough to get us beat. I mean seriously...kid has balls. Let's just say it. But he led the team in turnovers again and took at least 3 horrible shots. Yes....he made big shots. Yes...he rebounded well. Yes...he hit big free throws when few others did or could. We won in large part because of him. Had we lost? It would have been in large part because of him. Just get rid of the bad stuff!

He's shown his entire career he can't. Serious question..why do you think he can? Dakich was right...is this about what Dakich said or what you think Smith can do? Smith is a one dribble guy or a catch and shoot guy (from 10-12 feet). He can run in transition; but he's never shown he can handle the ball in transition.

Whole team awful today. Phinisee included. Green has done it for 3 years and hasn't fixed any part of it. Hero plays, horrible decisions, bad shots, turnovers....Yeah, whole team is awful right now. Absolutely. Even Morgan is terrible. Green just does it more often than not and it doesn't seem as if he learns. And just there...a very lazy failure to block out a FT shooter. That was on him.

Just making sure you're watching. I don't want to be critical of the kid again; and I won't be. (Just stating facts) But...he gave away 5 in the first half today. (Arkansas) and it could be 6 or 7 if we really boiled it down. You can get on ME all you want. No real problem with that. However, your distaste for me or what I say doesn't make me wrong. I don't just throw numbers out there for the sake of it. Yes...he has made shots and we'd be down without them. But..he has also given away 5 possessions (at least). Which is my point. He needs to limit "bad DeVonte." Big time. I keep saying it because it's true.

Smith isn't a ball handler. You can't give a non-ball handler the ball 30 feet from the rim as he's running full speed toward a defense that has 3-4 guys down there.

He runs plenty for himself.

Yes. he was ranked as the #6 recruit in the country. One spot behind Zion Williamson. He was officially very over rated and I don't buy this "sore back" thing one bit.

Tell me which part of a very simple point you didn't understand. This will be good. I do love the "toss my scarf and leave in a huff" departure. Very dramatic. You just HAD to have the last word, right? Say what you want to say and run rather than actually debate? Does this description of liberals basically describe your feelings for me? I bet yes. And I bet your face looks like this. Does IUc2016 mean you graduated 3 years ago? The very least you can do is be accurate. If you need to fabricate (which you did), you really have no point, which means it's a personal thing; and I couldn't care less. Bring it if you want....or don't. But stick to the truth. I made my comments (positive) about him a long time before the OSU game. So it did NOT take that. You're wrong. Simple as that. So who derailed what? This is a you problem.

In the game I was referring to? No. He did not. But hey, go ahead and mix up the games and whatever point you're trying to make so it fits. I know that's easier. Your reading comprehension issue is not my problem.

Go ahead and finish that. Don't stop there. Continue with the idiocy. Did I miss something, or did he hit 8 of 10 last week when I complimented him? Hell, you probably think his 2 week span when he was 8-37 from the floor with 13 turnovers was an anomaly, right? At least those are real numbers. Good Lord.....why on Earth do you or anyone else care if I love the kid's game or not?

Indiana gets its revenge IU 83 Ark 74

You're giving me your opinion. You're not telling me anything, and the data does back up my argument...see below. I disagree with you. Green making things happen ends badly at least as often as it ends well and on a better team, I don't think he'd see the floor. You and I see him very differently, which is fine; but as much as you think I'm wrong, I think you are. If you're eliminating the eyeball test, you're arbitrarily eliminating reality. 5-6 possessions a game is not only true, it's probably conservative, FJ. Let's agree to disagree because it really doesn't matter, but watch the next game objectively. And I'll leave you with this since you're a numbers guy and think I'm not close : Last night he was 4-13 from the floor and was credited with 2 turnovers. I'll submit if stats were really accurate that last strip/steal was a turnover and not a blocked shot; but whatever... Not all of the shots he missed were bad ones, but at least 3 were. Plus 2 TO's...that's at least 5. Led the team in turnovers. Against OSU, he was a key factor in bring us closer... no doubt. But he had 3 TO's in the first half, 4 overall, and missed 6 shots; one of them a ridiculous running floater with 28 seconds on the shot clock. Even if the other 5 misses were all good shots, that's still 5. Led the team in turnovers. Games before that he had a stretch where he was really good. Sound with the ball and played within the offense very well...I'll grant that and I made an effort to say so. Against Iowa? 2-8 from the floor; 0-5 from the 3 point line and 2 turnovers. I remember at least 2 bad shots that night so let's say that's all...and that's 4 at least. Led the team in turnovers. We lost in OT. Purdue 1-7 from the floor and 3 turnovers. Led the team in turnovers. We lost by 2. Minnesota 1-5 from the floor. 2 turnovers. Whole team awful...not his fault we lost at all. Ohio State 3-9 from the floor. 2 turnovers. Led the team in turnovers. We lost by 3. Iowa 1-5 from the floor. 4 turnovers. Led the team in turnovers. We lost by 5 Really? Not even close to true? Yeah...it is very close to true. I will never understand why you and others don't think his possession giveaways matter or don't acknowledge them as a consistent problem. He was ABSOLUTELY better for a 4-game stretch. So much so I came out and proactively said so. But come on now...I'm not making my numbers up and the eyeball test matters if you're watching objectively,

You're cherry picking. So what if he was the 3rd leading scorer? So what if you can boil down a few stats to polish his resume? The kid gives away 5-6 possessions every game and it matters. Nobody else does that. Nobody else dribbles between his legs and off his foot. Nobody else consistently tries to do things he can't do. (And that's the point, really) You want me to get on Durham for missing shots? Phinisee for not recovering (or being able to see) from a concussion fast enough? I got on Smith too because he spent over half the season being lazy, and I stopped when that stopped. Just like I complimented Green when he had a better, more complete game without the hero plays and bad decisions. You're telling me you watched this season and didn't see Green take multiple bad (selfish, poorly timed, quick, not his best,....name your word) shots in just about every game? You didn't see the consistent wrap passes that take too long, give defense time to adjust, and get stolen? You didn't see careless passes or hero plays that ended up in turnovers for touchdowns? You want me to be hard on other players for what?? My hangup with basketball players is ball security. Take good shots and value the ball. That's MY approach. And in coaching for over 20 years, it seems to work. Maybe you look solely at certain numbers and ignore others? Your last sentence is half right. He had too many turnovers (and bad shots are turnovers). I don't agree at all he was one of our best players. We needed him because we literally have nobody else. But...he lost a starting spot to a freshman for a reason.

Okay. Whatever. Get over yourself.

According to the story I've heard it was very last second and Greenspan really didn't have time to react to it. I do know with 100% certaint Sampson was hired because Herbert demanded a minority to replace Davis. Between he and McRobbie the BOT has hired two incredibly bad presidents from a macro perspective. Neither understand/understood much beyond the realm of academia; and a university's best fundraising vehicle is generally athletics.

I don't think that's devil's advocate at all. Nor do I think it's a bad thing we didn't hire one of those two. What I DO dislike is the mindset. Men's basketball is the world's window into Indiana University. It just is. Having a coach who has a huge persona can be a great thing if he represents the university in a positive way...as Knight did until he didn't. Calipari would have changed the culture here into whatever UK is now, and Pitino's baggage is well noted. I'm not giving up on Archie. I think he needs a new assistant or two (and I think Brusier Flint is completely worthless); but I have seen him adjust and learn this season, and he's far better out of timeouts than Crean was.