Old Friend

You can take it however you want to take it. Up to you. None of you have answered the questions, so I'll try again. 1) Who can Indiana go get? Who's your horse? 2) Would you rather have continuity or a carousel of coaches? If continuity, see #1. If carousel, what assurances do you have that we hit on every coach in here so we remain consistently good? 3) Go back 50 years. 100 years. Not much changes. Do you acknowledge Indiana's ceiling in its own division on a consistent basis is 4th? If so, refer again to #1. If not, you're myopic and unreasonable. 4) Do you recognize that Indiana may in fact have a 6-7 win team right NOW? What will you complain about if we do? 5) Do you see what's happening in the basketball program or not? My comments to all of you have been "right now," what are you upset with? I get the past. But things are changing, and you can choose to see it or ignore it and keep b*tching for the sake of it. 6) I'm not privy to anything; but the schedule and reality of our situation seems to be something you choose to ignore in favor of....b*tching. Indiana starts every season essentially 0-3. They, Rutgers, and Maryland have the toughest climb in college sports. No other league has divisions as unbalanced. You can either accept or ignore that reality; and it's not my being privy, it's simply making a point you don't seem to get. "Every now and then" is what you're after? We beat Penn State a few years ago. You got your wish. If you basically start 0-3, and go undefeated in the rest of the games, you still finish 4th in the Big Ten East most of the time. That's good for the Tax Slayer Bowl or the Music City Bowl. Go see what coaches you can attract with that. Indiana is in the same division with 3 of the college football blue bloods; and there are about 10 of those programs. Maybe not even that many. All 3 of those programs are in Sagarin top 20 right now. So is Michigan State, by the way. So Indiana will play 4 Sagarin top 20 programs this year and every year this is true. Know how many from the West are there in the top 20? One. The next from the west is #37. Unbalanced divisions are a HUGE problem. Just truth. I know you think the sky is falling, but right now? In Sagarin, which I think is a decent measuring stick; Indiana is ranked ahead of Tennessee, UCLA, Arkansas, Vanderbilt, BYU, Oregon State, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, Kansas, and Boston College. It's just not as bad or dire as you make it out to be; and it IS as difficult for Indiana as I've said it is. You can accept that or deny it, but it's more than just a "tough schedule." It's a crippling reality for the program, and the problems..as I have said all along are WAY above Fred Glass; which is the over-riding point.

If those were the ONLY qualifications....yes. I'll ask you the same questions : given the inarguable limitations of the IU job, who can we go get? Would you rather have a turnstile of coaches or continuity? If the latter, who's going to come here and stay here given the current division alignment?

The ignorance and short-sighted nature of this statement is staggering. How has he failed at his job? Don't tell me what you wish his job would be or use football as the sole measuring stick. The mob has spoken. You want a winning football team; and the way you have defined "winning," you might actually HAVE one as we speak; but because it hasn't happened in the past or with names you wanted, you're complaining. Have you looked at baseball? Soccer? Swimming? Have you seen what's happening on the basketball floor? What's starting to happen with volleyball and softball? Doesn't know how to win?? Why don't you apply for the job, and tell people "I know how to WIN!" and see how far you get. Good Lord. Step outside the low beams for just a second and think about your statement. What do you want the football team to be and what do you think it can be realistically? My assumption is you're smart enough to know the ceiling (consistently, anyway) in the Big Ten East is 4th, right? So 8-4 or so is the high water mark; 5-7 wins a year should be the expected norm if you're even halfway reasonable..... Where is it right now in your eyes? What needs to change (this is all we're talking about, right? Football?)? What happens if Indiana finishes 7-5 or 6-6 and goes to a bowl this season? Do you understand the bell cow for Indiana University Sports Properties and Indiana University Athletics is men's basketball? Do you know that IUSP is still a top 10 revenue producer in the country? Do you know varsity club donations have broken their own revenue records 5 times under Fred Glass? Seriously....if football goes to a bowl this season, what will you have left to complain about? Nothing you're upset with will be true; and I'm really not sure any of it is NOW.

Step away from the ledge....

Little premature to make Chris Bosh comparisons without knowing what was / is wrong with him, however I do agree with the sentiment. If I may put some of the worries to rest : Indiana University has some of the finest cardiologists, pulmonologists, and veinous surgeons in the world working for its healthcare system; and Dr. RInk (even as little as he's involved now) would never allow a player to be cleared if he were in danger. I'm assuming for now that he's healthy enough to play, and if he's healthy enough to play, there should be no restrictions on him because playing 15 minutes is no better than playing 30. And...this kid's good. REALLY good. Between he and Franklin, I'm very confident in the "wing/slasher/shooter/athletes" we have at that position, no matter how Archie decides to use them. If it ends up that he's NOT fully cleared by November, then of course you have to start assuming his role will be greatly diminished.

In the end, yes. He hired the easy coach. But others were indeed contacted. Allen at that time had a resume that (at Indiana) was worthy of s look. And he's won 5 games in consecutive seasons.....something not often accomplished in program history. His IU resume is not yet complete, and his team is sitting at 2-1. If you were being objective over the summer and someone asked you where you thought they'd be right now, what would you have said? Guarantee you'd have said 2-1. So.....all of you are b*tching to b*tch right now. Like I said .. he has the rest of this season to prove it or not. But.....I still say the schedule and divisional alignment of the Big Ten is a far bigger hurdle than any of you are crediting. Not many coaches will come to Indiana because there's nothing to be gained. I hate reality sometimes, but you can't deny it.

People who believe continuity is better than a carousel care. You think a carousel is better? You think Indiana would hit on every one of those who walked through the turnstile? By making the claim that Indiana would be better off hiring coaches who'd leave for a better gig on a consistent basis, you're admitting we're basically a minor league program and not a destination job, there by making my overall point. Who can Indiana hire? Right now. Allen goes on an extended vacation....who do you hire? I don't want to know who you think we missed on, nor do I care. Right now....today....who's your horse? And if IU goes to a bowl game, do you feel the same?

Not exactly. Glass, like any AD at Indiana would be faced with several questions : 1) Who is on the list of people who would accept this job? 2) Who is on the list of people who would take the job and STAY in the job? 3) Who is on the list who can keep continuity of what we want to do at IU (I don't agree with this, but it's a reality)? 4) Who fits our budget? 5) Who wants to be here? Tom Allen fit those criteria. It's not as simple as a warm body Glass happened to know. Other coaches were absolutely considered and others were contacted. I know that to be 100% fact. But....Tom Allen was in-house; and based on several criteria, was offered the opportunity to become the head coach. Last Saturday was not the barometer for IU. Plenty of upcoming Saturdays ARE. Tom Allen has the rest of this season to prove himself or not.

Your first 2 posts were "does IU even practice shooting the ball?" and "who cares?" You might want to work on your presentation. You are allowed to do whatever you want. And..people are allowed to avoid taking you seriously if this is what you have to add.

Well this is interesting... https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2019/09/09/indiana-sports-gambling-iu-hoosiers-basketball-player-joe-hillman-linked-gambling-ring/2265952001/

Yeah...in my case, please don't over read. I don't have time to work on my delivery....I am who I am and you know me or you don't. (whether or not you like me or my posts is yours to decide and I know many don't. Many do. I'm good either way.) Lots of people here can' t spell or form a complete sentence. You can't worry about that; especially if you're trying to decipher meaning because there's really no hidden agenda. I don't know you, so we're not "friends." No offense, but I'm not here to please you or anyone else with style points. Sometimes, I'm direct. "Have you seen him?" is a question. No hidden meaning. He's a far different case than Luke Brown and there's zero downside to him. Guy's going to rush for 10,000 yards in his high school career at a 5A high school. He's stronger than 80% of our (IU's) team; and I'd take 5 of him.

Curious as to what made it an "over" reaction? Just a response.

Have you seen him? Know much about him? Similar only that he's a bit under-sized, but he's the top rusher in Indiana high school history with at least 7 games to go; and New Pal will play 10 more. And he's done it against far better teams including Center Grove, Zionsville, Lafayette Harrison, etc. New Pal is a 5A high school and this kid would play and succeed anywhere. Yeah, he's short. So is Whop Philyor. He's at least as fast as Stevie Scott and far stronger. Too many schools pass on kids because of tangibles.

In this case, I couldn't care less what anyone else has offered or not offered. They all want him, but none are willing to offer -probably because "no one else has": and they want him to "prove it." I don't know what else he has to prove. New Pal is very easily one of the best 2 teams in Indiana; and he's broken the record playing against 5A and 6A high schools. He squats more than every one of our offensive linemen; and is as hard a worker as there is anywhere. He's a football player. A great football player. Mitchell Paige didn't have any offers, either.

1.  Overall record, B1G record, post-season results, if any (Edit: I went with 30 total games just based on what has been announced, Stuhoo points out we had 35 last year. Do what your heart says is right) I'm assuming Hunter gives us something. 22-13 12-8 NCAA Round of 32 2. Starting 5 for first game of BigTen season Phinisee, Green, Brunk, Smith, Hunter 3. Average PPG for top 5 scorers Green 14.2 Phinisee 12.6 Jackson-Davis 11.7 Durham 10.1 Hunter 8.2 4. A hot take Archie Miller will earn the respect of those who doubt him now. 5. Another hot take The surprise of the season will be Armaan Franklin.

If they haven't, Indiana needs to offer this kid right now.

What did you just say???? I'm not trying to sound smart at all. But I'll tell you this much....standing by an argument as simple as "throw money at it" isn't.

You ask me this question and tell me I'm missing the point? That's funny. I know what Indiana is. I also know what you want them to be. You first need to accept the realities of the situation, which you haven't done. We haven't beaten those teams much in over 100 years of trying. You think "throwing money at it" is the solution, but won't answer the very simple question of "who can we get?" You don't like the answer, and I get that, but ignoring it does not mean I'm missing the point. We do start 0-3 every year. That's not me missing the point, that's you in denial. We may win against those teams, but it'll only be once in a while and an anomaly. No matter how much money we throw at it? Those 3 will always have WAY more. Nobody in the west can come close to the money those 3 programs have....like it or not. No, quite the contrary I absolutely understand your point, and if Indiana winds up 6-6 and goes to a bowl, it'll be a moot one. Indiana is not a top football program. It will never BE a top football program. This is a "fire Fred Glass" thread, and I find it very ironic that he hired Kevin Wilson, who you claimed had Indiana in a better place; and now want him fired because the program is essentially in the SAME place, but BETTER than past history....without being able to tell me who they can go get. I don't care who was available. I want you to tell me....with a straight face that you believe Indiana's ceiling is something different than 4th in its own division; THEN tell me what coach is coming here with that reality hanging over his head. YOUR point is very different than THE point; which is the problems in this situation are WAY above Fred Glass.

Yes you are. There are....2-3 of you who can't seem to accept reality from what you wish for. 5-7 is not a really bad product. 52-0 and 34-24 is not a really bad product. Today, we were completely out classed. I saw it as well as you did, but we're not comparing ourselves to Ohio State...you said so yourself. You're asking for 1-2 more wins a year if I understand you right. So we go from "really bad" to what you wish for with 1 win? A better performance against Purdue or Minnesota last year, and we're all good, right? I have not defended and will not defend Tom Allen. You don't have to put words in my mouth. Recruiting classes are now consistently in the top 40; and honestly? I think Indiana is a top 40 program as it relates to talent. If Indiana were in the Big 12 or ACC? Different outcome. In the Big Ten East? We are what we are. So again, help me understand why I'm missing the point by saying you're comparing Indiana to Ohio State. There are 3 programs in the Big Ten that basically start every season 0-3. Indiana has been better than the other two. Our facilities still lag behind whose? Overall...basketball and football (and you do have to combine them), who are we behind? It's not the majority of our conference. I know for sure we have better facilities in total than Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Rutgers, Minnesota, and Iowa. I'm not sure about Maryland. Michigan, OSU, and Penn State sell close to 700,000 football tickets a year and have revenue streams we don't have. It's not an arms race, but resources are different. Why throw the lion's share of your money behind football for the sake of 1 more win? The available funds are FAR better spent for the men's basketball program, and I know you understand the economics of that. Indiana University Sports Properties is still top 10 in the country if not top 5; and it's 97% because of men's basketball. That's the program that drives our bus, and wishing that weren't true won't change it. You want to hire a new coach? Fine. If Indiana goes 5-7 or worse again, I wouldn't argue. What I WOULD argue is who we can get. Not many high level coaches will come to a program whose ceiling is 4th in its own division. Not any coach who'd stay, anyway. Because....unless you really ARE saying Indiana can consistently beat the "big 3," that's our reality. What you want is one more win against a western division team which we didn't get a year ago, and Purdue did....so you're jealous? Angry? Whatever it is.....you have to be realistic, and you have to understand the whole of Indiana's athletic situation. Not acknowledging that on your part does not equal missing the point on my part.

So your entire argument is based on basically half a season and one loss, right? Think we need a better sample size before saying Indiana's not in Purdue's league. Purdue lost to Nevada and blew a 24-7 lead in doing so. Wilson had Indiana at 6-6 twice. Before that? 1-11, 5-7, 4-8, 5-7. How exactly has Allen taken them backwards? One game per season when using a 2 season sample you get to cherry pick? That's what you're doing, after all. If Indiana finishes 6-6 this season and gets to a bowl, what then? Your point will be incorrect. Recruiting classes continue to improve. Coaches are making more money. Facilities have been upgraded significantly. You guys are b*tching for the sake of b*tching.

What point am I missing? Look at this thread and the "Fire Glass" thread. People want Glass fired and are using this game as a barometer and saying "top programs do ________" whatever it is they think Indiana isn't doing. I'm not missing the point at all. Spending money guarantees nothing. Indiana starts every season 0-3. That'll be true regardless of how much money we spend. You and others claim Indiana has not spent money....and that's simply not accurate. Assistant coaches are making WAY more than they were and I don't have to tell you about facilities. Methinks I'm not the one missing the point. Or at least not missing reality. Indiana has finished 5th in the BTEast the last..what, 3-4 seasons; so your comment about being better than only Rutgers isn't accurate, either. (You saw Illinois and Maryland today, right?) This all boils down to the loss to Purdue a year ago, really because had we won and gone to a bowl, I doubt you'd be as upset. "Throw money at it" is the argument?? Okay. You're the same guy who kept telling me how great Ramsey was. Got it.

Before last season, Indiana beat Purdue 4 straight times and their record between 2013-2018 was 22-52. Help me. People are using this game as a barometer and using "top programs" as examples. I see the same few guys making points along those lines.

Oh..and Peyton Ramsey is still very mediocre. He makes awful decisions in the read option...wow.

THIS. This is why "throwing money at it" wouldn't matter. Ohio State is Ohio State. Indiana is not Ohio State. Sorry to the ones who believe money would solve things....it would not. Indiana will be at the top as an anomaly. (And I firmly believe will be there on the basketball floor again consistently sooner than later) Ohio State is there every season and WILL be there every season.

Okay.... Again for those in the back. Indiana is not a top football program. Indiana has not refused to spend money. There are less than a handful of schools that are top programs in football AND basketball in large part because there's not enough money to go around. Fred Glass has zero to do with the fact that Indiana gets many kids not recruited by the "football schools." Would YOU choose Indiana over Ohio State or Michigan or Penn State? Other kids don't, either. Spending enough money to get Indiana into that class would take at least $800 million, and probably closer to $ 1 billion. New stadium, and all that goes with it. Big name coaches, recruiting budget, etc. If Indiana had a "football only' facility, do they win this game? Do they all of a sudden become "a top program?" No...no they do not. I'm not saying hiring Tom Allen was the right move, but if some of you think Indiana is ever going to be Ohio State or a program that can consistently beat them...and still be a top basketball school (find me in 2 years), you're on a fool's errand.