Old Friend

OF doesn't necessarily think Allen is the answer either, but you can run with that narrative if you'd like to; unsubstantiated as it may be. I've only argued against the comments that we've regressed under him (we have not) and that Glass should be fired for having hired him (he should not). You still haven't answered my questions. I'm seriously asking you to debate. Not simply state your opinion, which I find unfounded; but defend your comments with something other than numbers. I don't at all disagree with the numbers, but "throw money at it" or "fire him" are elementary solutions. Dig beyond the loose dirt and give me your solutions. Or....just keep on with the same old simpleton stuff and pretend I think Allen is the answer. That's definitely easier.

The idiocy (short sighted and ignoring the broad picture for the sake of minutiae) of referencing the basketball conference record under Miller is mind numbing. Another serious question. What will your opinion be when Indiana does well this season and next?

So basically....you have no solution and all you want to do is b*tch. That about right? You're the guy who spent 2 years telling me how great Peyton Ramsey is and that HE should be the starter, so pardon me if I don't necessarily jump when you ask me to. Again....I think I'll use my own brain. If all you do is b*tch with no solution, perhaps you should worry about something other than what other people think of your incessant whining. It's not a high horse at all....and I'm not ignoring what you say. I'm disagreeing with it and you've yet to even come up with a modicum of rational reason why I shouldn't. How much logic and reason do you need? Apparently a whole lot. We don't need another "fire so and so" thread. It's poison. Constant barrages of negativity are tiring. No message board needs that, so perhaps you need to take some of your own advice? Indiana doesn't need to fire anyone. Using that as a primary first step when you have a problem is as elementary as it gets. Any 8 year old can make that statement. It takes a little more than an 8 year old brain to think through the realities of a situation, see what's really happening at a University or anywhere else, and extrapolate an opinion beyond the two old men in the balcony on The Muppet Show. Giving you the reality of a situation and explaining the facts of the bigger picture is a "high horse?" That's not comical. That's you living in a bubble of your own reality completely separate from......reality.

It was 2 years ago, dude. If we go to a bowl this season, your argument is moot. If we beat Purdue this season, your argument is moot. It means as much that we're likely to go to a bowl this season as it does to day we haven't gone since Wilson's teams. You just answered your own complaint. You whined about not going to a bowl since WIlson, then accurately say we go 4 times in 20 years. This team is a bowl team. You can either see it or you can't. Are you really asking me when recruiting will translate to wins? You expect freshmen and sophomores to translate to wins? Come find me after Thanksgiving weekend.

We get it. There are a few of you who want to fire Tom Allen. Got it. We all know what you think the problems are. People who do nothing but point out problems over and over are just b*tching. What are your solutions? "Throw money at it" and "fire him" are 40,000' lazy, elementary solutions. You're talking about a problem that's existed within Indiana football for 100 years. I don't want to hear "hire a big name," because no big name is coming here until divisions are re-aligned. "Throw money" at who? At what? Are YOU donating money earmarked for football? You guys that whine about changing the way the offense played....do you realize the defense adjusted yesterday? How dumb do you think DeAntonio is? "Hey., IU has been killing us with the short passes...let's just let them keep doing that!" My God...how ignorant are you if you believe that? What football team can you name that's an underdog in a close game against good coaches which is allowed to succeed at the same game plan / scheme for 60 minutes?? Grow up and stop whining. Your complaints have been noted time and time and time and time and time again. The problem? Some of you whined we didn't hire Jeff Brohm. How we lookin' on that front? Some of you comically claim Indiana football has regressed. Even the most ignorant women who rarely watch football can see that's BS. You're coming up with new problems every time one of your b*tches proves unfounded. So...let's stop with the b*tches and come up with solutions and spare us all the whining. No...that's wrong. I can ignore your whining....do it for YOURSELVES. You're going to give yourselves ulcers. Yep. Way too many mistakes at critical times. Yes. Penalties killed us, but they almost killed THEM, too. Michigan State is a ranked opponent. They're a good football team. Indiana is at least even with them and one of the best 35-40 teams in the country. I don't know what your expectations are, but mine are....about there right now. We are very limited by our division. That's a reality you will either accept, or this conversation will be had in 2063. So okay....."fire Tom Allen." Hell, fire everyone who doesn't meet your standards. Fire YOU if you have a bad day at work tomorrow or fail to impress people at your office who don't matter. The head of the mail room doesn't like it because your stamps are always crooked. FIRE HIM!!! What are your legitimate and reasonable solutions? Good Lord, stop whining.

I would absolutely agree with you on the go for 2 strategy, but with 2:00 to go and 2 timeouts left, there's a chance you get the ball back and that's a lot of time. Last 20 seconds or so? Absolutely. Go for the win. But with 2 minutes, I was okay with the extra point. We can nitpick it and disagree with that strategy, but with that amount of time on the clock, I was good with it. I was far more disappointed in the defense than the play calling. That's a good defense and they adjusted to take away some of the quick stuff. Safeties down means you throw it deep. I was fine with some of those, but somehow we lost the middle of the field and Hendershot. I thought Indiana was the better team today. A win we should have had, but there are 5 more left we can win. Time will tell.

There was. Probably not anymore. Waiting on acknowledgement of such. Penalties cost us the game. The one on the punt return in particular. Their defense was exhausted and worn down. We were about to go up 2 scores. One play cost us the game. Everything that happened after that was inconsequential and yeah, we shot ourselves in the foot, but the better team did not win today. This is neither pro nor con Tom Allen, but if anyone sees regression as was mentioned this week, I wonder what you're watching. I also wonder how you extrapolate it into blaming Fred Glass. Same 4-5 guys, and it's tired.

I'm not on the Allen bandwagon, so I'm going to limit my real arguments "for" to Archie. I think the Allen hire is still a "jury's out" situation. I think Archie has shown plenty in his time here; not the least of which is an obvious understanding of where he is. Something none of his 3 predecessors seemed to (Davis, Sampson, Crean). The team got better a year ago. They were playing better late than they were early; and Miller got rid of dead weight, some of which (Forrester in particular) was his own doing. Can you give Glass credit for his baseball hires? For soccer remaining at the top of the NCAA? Swimming doing the same despite having to fire a guy and including adding some Olympic athletes? For improvements in other sports which are happening? For facilities upgrades, which are undeniable even if some say it hasn't been enough? For year after year of record revenue production from donations? For operating in the black year after year? For spending more money on football coaches and having no restrictions on recruiting budgets? Basketball will be fine and very good. I have no doubt. I know that's an unproven comment, but I'm willing to stand by it. I also know you and others wish Glass' job was different than it is; but per his job description, he's doing quite well despite what you may think of him.

How? Recruiting classes have improved if you look at national ranking; he has the best record of any IU football coach in history save Bill Mallory, and Mallory is up by .002%. Indiana is at least as likely to to go a bowl this season as not; and we have some depth for the first time in a couple of decades. There's no evidence to support that statement.

I'd hire the coach from New Palestine right now and give Glass a raise if he did. Not necessarily in every case.

I AM pissed about the last decade of IU basketball. I'd bet more than you. I'd bet a lot, actually. The difference is I am looking more broadly than you are. 1) Glass fired Crean when he had to. I posted a timeline last week which I'll ask you to refer to when making comments about my stances specifically; but I don't believe firing him at any other time really made sense. When it did make sense, Glass fired him. 2) Archie's 1st year, the cupboard was pretty lean and then Davis got hurt, making it even leaner. The freshmen we had that season (Smith, Durham, and Moore) weren't good enough to help; and we had no shooters. Not a single one of Archie's recruits played even a minute that year, and the players who did were all recruited to play in a completely different system. Last year was a disappointment, but you can't ignore the injuries. Archie planned on having Hunter and Thompson all season, and Phinisee and Morgan both missed time. Romeo basically stopped playing mid-February. Those things happened. Nothing to be argued, and Archie hadn't had enough time to build depth. He was forced to play Green out of position and had no depth in the front court. You saw as well as I did what Phinisee is capable of before he got hurt, and he wasn't right for a month. That all hurt the record. I saw, and I know you did too if you're objective the improvement late in the season as clearly as I did. 3) This season's recruits (Franklin, Brunk, and Jackson Davis) are good players. Very good. Adding Hunter, that's a significant upgrade, and NONE of those guys will be counted on to produce like freshmen in years past. 4) Glass isn't my friend. I just know him, and I'm objective about him. His job isn't what you want his job to be. His job is his job, and he's done very well at his job. 5) If you don't want IU to lose, why can't you see the positives and be objective? It's not like I'm making this stuff up. Things ARE changing. If you don't see it, you're choosing not to. My outlook is based on a lot more than hope. Again, you can claim that because you're unwilling to really look; but it's like you're fighting reality in order to have that negative outlook. What should be different? It looks as though Archie will land 3 straight Indiana Mr. Basketball's. I'll let you look to see when the last time was THAT happened. His 3 recruits next season are ALL 4 year guys and will help build a consistent winner. That can't happen overnight, but it seems you want some name coach who would magically produce overnight changes. Lasting changes take time. Take a step back and take an objective look. 7) I'm not on the Tom Allen bandwagon. We can have that discussion later. I gotta' go!

Question for the peanut gallery : When Indiana is a pretty solid team this winter and plays in the NCAA Tournament in a year you all think we'll do no better than .500; what will your complaint be, then? If Indiana football has a decent season and plays in a bowl game, what will your complaint be then? You're going all in on failure and I wonder seriously if you live your lives hoping IU loses so you can come here and claim victory. In fact, I bet some of you took Hunter's clearance as bad news. Indiana's going to be far better than many of you think, and I want to see you here when they are. If in fact they're not, in a year or two you'll get your wish and the turnstile will continue. Same with football. Personally? I hope Archie Miller sticks it up your a$$.

Because it's not the AD's job to dispel fan rumors. This is very much a you problem. You might be wise to either get on board with who we do have or go root for the Thunder and forget about Indiana University. You seem impossible to please and difficult to accept logic or reality. I also don't think you accept the role of a college athletic director, but WAY down the list is making disgruntled fans happy by taking care of minutiae that gets their panties in a wad.

No! Not at all. That was for affect. Nothing more. I'm "in the know" more than some, not as much as others...I've been around the block w IU Athletics and there are names you know that I've played golf with or see on a regular basis; but others are far closer than I am. Truth serum? I know Fred Glass and the man's brilliant. He's a bigger IU fan than anyone here and nobody wants to win more than he does. This thread was created a long time ago, and I have never understood it because any problems IU has go way above his purview. I didn't love Allen's hiring process either; but I DO know others were contacted. I know for a fact a few weren't interested, and Glass felt we needed to fill the void to maintain what momentum we had at the time; Allen had shown to be an effective coordinator, so he was hired. I still say the overall and general direction is positive, even if "winning" may be defined differently to different subsets of people. The truth is basketball will always drive the bus at Indiana, and I believe almost unequivocally that Glass got this one right, despite other coaches who some people like more. I need no more evidence than the focus he put on Rob Phinisee, who I've loved as a player since he was a sophomore at McCutchen. I love his "no BS" way of doing things, and I love his inside-out recruiting style. I think getting Geronimo will end up being a HUGE out of state coup; and I think he'll get about whoever he wants from Indiana. He'll miss on some, but he'll hit on plenty. Yep. We both want the same thing. Go IU!

The world of academia is completely disconnected with the alumni, most definitely the "fan bases," and that's true for most places. Academes live in a world of theory. How things should be or could be. Brand was that person. A myopic academe who didn't understand what athletics mean to a university; almost identically to Michael McRobbie. Sports are the window to the world and by far the best fundraising vehicle any university has. They put Myles Brand's name on a building; but it's worth exactly zero. The names and advertisements inside Assembly Hall dwarf anything the school of informatics can raise in a decade. I'm quite sure McRobbie and his band of yes people quickly approved that namesake. At some point, I'll pee on the lawn of that building and maybe I'll feel better.

I'd agree except it wasn't basketball related and he'll have gone "live" for a while against his team mates. His major hurdle will likely be nerves and the college game atmosphere, sort of like most freshmen. I can't imagine how badly he wants to be back on the floor, but having had 2 sons tear ACL's and get back after it just fine, I'm not sure the mental hurdle is something that will hinder him much. Count me as one who believes Indiana just became a much better and more formidable team yesterday.

This is almost entirely QB dependent in my mind, but.. MSU 20 IU 10

Based on........?

He's been doing things on his own for a while and this is terrific news. Indiana just got better and way deeper. My man Aarman Franklin and Hunter will be a dangerous 2-3 combo in years to come. We have depth, boys and girls. LOVE seeing this news and I expect Hunter to be a regular and significant contributor.

Against....who? Eastern Illinois is ranked #225 in Sagarin right now. Behind Incarnate Word. And Georgetown. And Wagner. And Bethune Cookman. UConn is #170. Stony Brook, Columbia, and New Hampshire are ranked higher (IU is #60 for what it's worth. Purdue 71, Louisville 73, and Army, who had Michigan beat, 80. And for all of you Les Miles fans, Kansas is #96) Pardon us for not being impressed by those numbers. (Ramsey averaged 4.9 YPA vs OSU, so I'd say his stats have been a bit padded by the opponents) His arm prevents the ball from arriving to receivers (further away than 15 yards who wind up waiting on the ball allowing the defense to close) from doing anything after they catch it. Saturday, it prevented a touchdown. That's simple truth; and the playbook changes when he plays. More truth. You can throw numbers like completion % (anyone here including women could complete some of his throws) to mask the truth; but there is one set of facts. How you view them is up to you; but Ramsey is a limited QB which has always limited Indiana's offense.

Show me where this is accurate. Show me where some fans have indicated he was 100% "bad."

I could read this thread 100 times and not find a single piece of evidence anyone said Glass is above criticism. I'd also like you to justify in any way "the basketball record" as having one thing to do with him and please refer to my timeline a few pages back. Glass has nothing....absolutely zero to do with that, and he did what he had to do (took action) when he had to do it. Same with football. Donovan was not an option and he was never contacted. He's just a name like Brad Stevens was just a name. Timing with him never worked out. Miller was a good hire, and the "immediate satisfaction" crowd can wait a year or two to see it. The IUFB record under Glass is 48-78 with 2 bowl games. The record with coaches he hired save Wilson's first year when we had no players is 38-54. Except for the Bill Mallory era, Indiana hasn't had that kind of record in its history, so I can't get on board with Glass being nearly as bad as some would have you believe. Oh, and here's a fact for you : Tom Allen's record as head coach sits at 13-15. .464% A better % than any head coach in IU history. except Bill Mallory who was .466. You can argue the hiring process (as far as anyone here knows, and I promise neither you nor I know the whole story) wasn't handled as well as it could have been, but that's a kiddie pool shallow way to view it. There is so much more to that than simply "hiring Allen." I get it. The buck stops with Glass, but you're (the collective you) making judgments before all (and in fact MOST) of the evidence has been presented. "Your honor...I present.... " "GUILTY BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE THE WAY HE LOOKS!"

I'm certainly not here to dance on anyone's grave, but (and I'm in complete agreement with you), but I know one of his former players pretty well, and the area of "player development" was low on Crean's list. His "x and o" library was large and he demanded effort; but he was not a developer of players. Having said that, the scope under Crean was to bring in talent and stockpile it every year; so there really weren't many 4 year kids who came in one player and left another. We'll see under Miller. Damezi Anderson needs to develop. Some of that's on him, some on Miller. Same with Justin Smith. I have been as hard as anyone on Green, and I saw real development in him last year. To the point I'm really rooting for him, now. It was like a light went on in February; and I saw a completely different player (still with similar skills, but the details - angles, etc - and decision making were FAR better). To me, that's at least partially on Miller and his staff. Skill development? Jury's out. DeRon Davis' back to the basket game improves? Durham becomes a more effective shooter/scorer/defender? Smith and Anderson show progress (as examples)? I'll be very happy because all 3 freshmen next year and I suspect the 2 this season will need some development as well.

Yeah, but in Oladipo's case, he's right. Oladipo played on that 19U team the summer following his freshman year and worked with one of those coaches; not Crean to develop the player he became. Not necessarily true for all, but true for Oladipo.

Hanner was a top 100 player ranked by people who never saw him play. He got to the top 100 late mostly because he was 6'8" and athletic. He had "upside." Rankings outside the obvious top 20-30 or so is one of the most inexact sciences known to man.