Old Friend

If we count Morgan, we count Watford. Otherwise, you're cherry picking and making points that really aren't relevant. Morgan had an NBA cup of coffee, Watford has been G league; but Morgan has spent plenty of time in the G League, too.

The why absolutely matters if you want to fire a guy in his 3rd season. Crean had 9 seasons. Archie's had 2 and a half. What are you talking about, man? Archie's results so far have very reasonable "why's." They're not excuses...they're facts. Why didn't IU win in his first year? I dunno, maybe because Indiana had no front court beyond Morgan? You think that doesn't matter? YOU try winning with Josh Newkirk, DeVonte Green, Zach Mcroberts, and Freddie McSawin. Morgan and Robert Johnson were our best players...and Morgan played out of position all year because we had nobody else. You think that doesn't matter? I disagree. This is not a lifetime pass...it's a "let's be realistic and give it time" pass. You don't fire a guy after 2-3 seasons when his recruits aren't even juniors yet.

I'd say that's probably true, and I also think we'll make the NCAA tournament this season. We only need 3-4 more wins. 4 and we're a lock, so I think that expectation will be met. Very few teams will have records like Indiana had in its best seasons under Knight. It's only February 6th, and just 5 teams have less than 3 losses. Only TWO of those (Baylor and Auburn) from power conferences (Gonzaga, San Diego State, and Dayton are the other 3). It's not like college basketball is conducive to teams dominating in power conferences. WAY too many good players, now. Indiana isn't yet "different." I want IU to be different, and I've been wildly criticized for it around here. I don't come at you any harder than you have come at me. Some of the guys you seem to attract come across to me as clueless, agenda driven guys who don't know what they're talking about. I don't feel that way about you necessarily, but I don't know that I've been harder on you than you have on me. To me? The roster matters. Injuries matter. Experience matters. Chemistry matters. Indiana lacks shooters. Indiana lacks consistency. But look for example at Hunter. He was counted on a year ago coming into the season. He goes out and never plays, only NOW getting healthy. The eyeball test shows what that guy can be. Phinisee has been hurt more than he's been healthy, but when healthy is a terrific on ball defender, capable finishing at the rim, and does a decent job leading on the floor. His turnovers have made me nuts this season, just like Green's always have. I dunno', maybe I look forward differently than most, but a year from now, assuming everyone's back who should be, I see a whole lot of depth and enough shooters to play with about anybody. Thus, I'm not gloom and doom when a still-imperfect team. Next season? Yep. I'm with you. Next season, Indiana needs to be a top 3 team in the Big Ten, and that needs to become a frequent spot for them. NCAA tournament success will come if that happens.

Who are your NBA players on Archie's first team? Morgan and.....who? Juwon Morgan had to play out of position that season because Davis and Hartman got hurt. Zach McRoberts played the 5th most minutes on that team. 4 of the top 5 were guards, the 5th was Morgan, who was 6'7". You want to try to win in the Big Ten with your best post player a natural "4" who's out of position, and your backup ends up being a JUCO transfer who couldn't make a jump shot into a dumpster? You and your cronies do a GREAT job of ignoring the why and looking simply at the end result, regardless of circumstances. That's very elementary, but at least you're consistent. And Archie's first year, he won 16 games. Crean won 6. In Crean's 3rd year, he won 12 games with 2 NBA players including an all star. Archie will likely win 19-21 before it's over. What exactly is your point? You're the best I've ever seen at reaching. This comparison leaves out so much of the truth, it's impossible to take seriously.

I have consistently said next season has to be the turning point. So yes, Year 4. The team needs to jettison some players that still anchor it. His recruits need to be upper classmen. They need to be healthy. The effort question is puzzling, but I also think there is far more to the story (including Archie's inability to handle things the way he'd like due to things beyond his control) than anybody knows.

The best part for me? The same guys just LOVE everything critical of people they disagree with. Posting stuff that pushes their buttons is like shooting fish in a barrel. Alford-Bailey? 2017? Chicken Sammich. Josh. Same guys. Every time. And they almost always respond. Their likes are all for each other. It'd be a great experiment sometime if anyone in some sociology class wanted to expound on the human condition or write a thesis on misery loving company.

Crean's 3rd year, Indiana was 12-20. Archie's 3rd year will be significantly better. Apples and oranges. Archie has more top 25 wins in his first three years than Crean had in his first 5. The two are not comparable, but to believe Archie had even close to a full deck when he got to IU is ridiculous. Zach McRoberts played the 5th most minutes on his first team. That should be enough for anyone to understand.

IU 68 PU 57

No..they're not. They were recruited by Crean. Their skills are what their skills are, and I promise I've coached longer than you have. It's all but impossible to teach a kid different skills than he has or raise his basketball IQ unless he works hard at that. He can improve. He can develop. But neither Durham nor Smith came in here as high basketball IQ guys (same w Green), defenders first who could play well in Archie's offense. (If you want to say Archie should/could have adjusted some things, that's fair) And they both show flashes, but neither is consistent. You can spin it however you want to convince yourself, but neither were recruited by Archie. That's a fact. Archie took Green out of the starting lineup. He has benched him twice, Spin THAT however you want as well; but that's something different than "nothing." You and so many others can only see what's in front of your face and have no ability or maybe interest in looking beyond what you see and actually think through a problem and use your brain. You'd rather be negative, critical, call for jobs, etc... Nobody's happy with the results so far. Nobody. But....when Crean got here, the cupboard was bare. Nobody here. And people gave him 3 years before they whined.about results. In year 3, his record was 12-20; 11th in the Big Ten. Archie came here and lost Deron Davis and Colin Hartman his first year. He counted on Zach McRoberts heavily....that kid played more minutes than all but 3 or 4 players that season. Curtis Jones transferred. Freddie McSwain played a lot. Josh Newkirk played a lot. DeVonte Green played big minutes. So did Durham and Smith as freshmen. Stop me when you think that team should do much? Last season, they lost Phinisee for a long time, and he wasn't right for weeks after his concussion, on the floor or not. Hunter (who Miller was counting on) never played due to injury. Race Thompson was out most of the year. Deron Davis was awful, slow, and couldn't do much. Morgan got doubled every time he touched it. Romeo was hurt a lot and exposed for not having a left hand. THIS season, Indiana's results, while not up to past standards, are STILL a lock right now for the NCAA Tournament, have several quality wins, and they'd have at least one more (Maryland) without incredibly stupid decisions by.....Green and Durham. See above. Those things are real. They're not fabricated and they're not spin. Archie is in year 2 of his players. Fact. The results aren't there yet...I acknowledge. But that doesn't automatically extrapolate into "fire him....he sucks." Unless of course you can't use logic.

He's not going anywhere for at least another season or two. That's not hope.

1) Archie isn't going anywhere until his contract's up. Nor should he, yet. I think the roster is a group of disparate parts right now, in large part due to what was left over. Green and Davis are bad leaders. Let's just call that as it is. They're not good seniors. May be great kids and I wish them well; but they have not helped this program grow nor have they led. Al Durham is mediocre at everything. Justin Smith is unrealized potential and a bad offensive player. Archie didn't recruit any of them and all 4 play significant roles on this team. I don't know this to be true, but I have heard a couple of times he was told to try to keep them (and Clifton Moore). Which means HIS players are now sophomores or younger. (And let's also face that he recruits far different types of players than Crean did) You've all seen the picture where the Atlantic and Pacific oceans meet, right? Sometimes, things don't mix. This team doesn't mix very well; and I'm willing to give him enough time to build and develop his own roster before I cast him aside as a wrong hire because Indiana has also had significant injuries to deal with. Hunter in particular because that kid was a bucket getter, only now rounding into his own. But also Phinisee and Thompson. Those to some will look/sound like excuses. They aren't. They're reality. 2) Indiana's best lineup lately has been Phinisee, Hunter, Franklin, TJD, and Brunk. That group looks like they enjoy playing together. A rarity among this team, and you'll see a very noticeable absence of any upper classmen, save Brunk. That may not be popular among the "fire every coach who doesn't win to my level of expectation and in my time frame" crowd, but that's how I see it. Edit : Saying Archie "could have" filled the open scholarships is an easy argument, but nobody knows his plan. Nobody knows how he wants to build his roster or this program. A 12th player wasn't necessarily a good replacement for Green. Heck, Green was pretty good last February/March. He's regressed, and that's on HIM. Not Archie.

Because next season, his recruits are upper classmen and he gets rid of all of the poison. Certainly you understand the importance of all of that? You and everyone else who doesn't like him can stop trying to convince everyone else how awful he is any old time. Most of you haven't acknowledged the bigger picture which DOES include health; DOES include on-court leadership - which we don't have. DeVonte Green is a captain. Let THAT sink in. I agree with the effort and offensive stuff, but unless you;re blind; you can see the differences when Green's in the game and when he isn't. Also, unless you're blind, you can see Indiana gets plenty of good looks...Archie can't make layups or uncontested 3's for them. No coach can design an offense to get wide open dunks every possession. His strategy is to get old and stay old. His recruits are now sophomores. That's why next season is critical.

The admin changes next year, so we'll see. I still submit Indiana has suffered from injuries/team health; perhaps the worst senior leadership in program history (see : their act on the bench last week, injuries to Davis and his never fully recovering, and the DeVonte Green experience among other things), having to fit square pegs in round holes (Green as a primary ball handler as an example); inexperience (Indiana playing several kids every year first year in a system and a few used to playing or recruited to play in a completely different one); lack of depth at the PG position (having coached as long as I have, it's really difficult to ask your ONLY primary ball handler to also be your ONLY primary on-ball defender; especially if he's not fully healthy; and Phinisee hasn't been); contagious shooting problems; and general bad timing - catch OSU yesterday after a week to prepare, same as Penn State on Wednesday, etc.. Basically, i think this team is a group of disparate parts right now. Part of that's on Archie. Part of it's not. For me, next season is the telling season. Is Indiana on the right track or not? I still think this team can go win a game or two in the NCAA tournament. Or...it can lose to about anybody. 4 more wins and Indiana is solidly in the field. Here's hoping.

IU gets one against this mess Indiana 68 OSU 57

No he didn't. He lost the position and was a very capable backup. He didn't outplay Penix..he just filled in admirably.

Because it's an elementary, brainless, ridiculous, thoughtless, insulting cop out.

Exactly. Penix is a better player. Ramsey is a good QB and a great kid. He showed more this year than he did last, and player really well for the most part last season. But....Penix has tools Ramsey just doesn't have, and will be the starter. I laugh at people who make the claim he can't stay healthy. He broke his collarbone. It's not like he had a minor sprain that kept popping up. Good Lord.

Help me understand why any coach can prevent any action on the floor. Except not playing a kid. DeVonte got benched the other day because he wasn't playing well. He was better today, poor only in decision making on occasion, but he didn't earn "the DeVonte Green Experience" for no reason. He is a complete enigma and this team will definitely benefit from his departure, but without another true primary ballhandler outside of Phinisee, he has to play. I've been coaching 22 years, and if you can tell me how to "prevent" kids from doing what they're wired to do, let me know. That is very easily said.....and it's a cop out. Archie's job (and that of all coaches) is something very different from building robots. You can limit it....and you can teach it. But you can't prevent it because players are human. The ones who aren't are in the hall of fame. Green ain't going to any hall of fame. Were you equally critical of Mike Holmgren for not preventing Brett Favre from throwing interceptions? Green is maddening. I think he's a dumb player. But Archie didn't recruit him...he just has to play the hand he was dealt. His failure.... What a joke. And you wonder why your motives are called into question???

This comment is why many question those of you who still have concerns. I watched the start of the game twice, and Maryland's offense was almost flawless. Indiana wasn't late on rotations, guys weren't out of position, help was solid, stunts were good....Maryland moved the ball and made shots. They're inconsistent like....every team in college basketball it seems, but for that 12 minutes? They were terrific. That observation by itself is why your motives are consistently in question. It's not that you're fickle, it's because you're either not objective or not really watching.

The more I read, the more I think a few people will blame a coach for every loss and fail to see anything positive or see what's REALLY happening with this team and program. This game isn't on Archie. Not even a little bit unless you blame him ( and it's a fair point) for having Green in the game late. Maryland is national title good if they play and shoot that way. Indiana is so much better now than they were even a month ago and it's not close. I remember reading somewhere about what would happen when we (Hunter and Phinisee specifically) got healthy.....

No way to police it, way too many kids know one another from AAU and it would be a fiasco trying to tell kids they can't watch their friends, too many tournaments where games are back to back and teams watch one another... The IHSAA will always find bad rules. This is one that I'm sure has been considered because kids shouldn't "scout" or some dumb thing, but an impossible thing to implement.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2020/01/24/indiana-athletics-produced-13-million-surplus-latest-ncaa-numbers/4570770002/ Wrong thread, I realize, but FYI for anyone interested

Indiana 69 Maryland 64