Old Friend

Okay.... 1) Here is the link to Indiana. Deaths are down. That was the point. Let's stay away from spin and technicality. Nobody wants to be "that guy." Well...almost nobody. 2) Conspiracy? So you're assuming then that "presumptive deaths" is an accurate number, then? The CDC...not exactly a conspiracy-laden organization, said 2 weeks ago that 78% of people who died "with" COVID 19 had a co-morbidity. Those all count as COVID deaths. They do NOT all count for the co-morbidity. That's not deep state. That's you SAYING it's deep state because you heard someone else say it is. That's from the CDC. But hey...spin it so you can believe it's a conspiracy. That's easier when you disagree with something. I get it, Edit : Here's an example from today. 4 month old with a heart condition goes into the hospital with a fever. Initially tests negative for COVID-19, eventually tests positive. Begins recovery from COVID-19. Lungs clearing. Something happens...nobody knows what, and she ends up tragically passing away. Death counted as a COVID death, but nobody knows what she really died from. But she died "with" COVID-19, even though she was in recovery. This isn't deep state or conspiracy. This is what's happening in the world if you're brave enough to look. https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/494463-4-month-old-daughter-of-nyc-firefighter-dies-of-coronavirus-family

Why? because of "presumed" deaths. Because the more we test, the more positive tests we have. The more positive tests we have, the more raw numbers are produced by the data. And, the deaths include every known and every presumed death "with" Coronavirus rather than "from" it. Context matters, right? Study from Stanford based on antibody testing shows that perhaps 85x the number of people actually had COVID-19 than initially reported. The US has tested over 5 million people now, so yeah..raw numbers are going to go up across the board. With 900,000 positive tests, assuming Stanford's numbers are right, 76,500,000 people will have had this thing. So it would only be natural to assume "presumed" deaths (or better said deaths attributed to it after the fact) will rise. But.... then, if you apply context...and you go with the KNOWN raw numbers, you come to a different conclusion. You can look at the Johns Hopkins chart as easily as I can. You can look up the numbers as easily as I can. Hospitalizations are down across the country. Including in some "hot spots." The care being given now is more of a known than it was 5 weeks ago, and the death rate is down. WAY down if you attribute presumed deaths and add in any exponential factor assuming more people have this than was originally known. You can make any number fit your argument if you spin it your way. I'm aware of that; however if you're relying on anecdotal and presumed data to prove actual data wrong, I'd say that's just another way to spin it. The bottom line? The medical people in charge would never have approved a phase 1 exit plan if the true numbers were as you and BC claim they are.

Then why do you keep doing it? If you truly think what I say on a message board is dangerous, you'd better believe I'm worth stalking. Dangerous to who? Enough stupid people read this that correcting you and showing the Indiana State Department of Health page is dangerous? Lies? Here are numbers from the CDC today : Newly-reported deaths: Today: 1,772 Yesterday: 1,886 One week ago (4/17): 2,069 Deaths...down...nationwide, even though that wasn't what I said, nor what I meant. Who was wrong about this? OH!! YOU!!! Or were you "lying?" Good grief. Also, peak deaths in Indiana on April 14th, trending consistently down since then (that's more than one day, right?). Are you unable to read a bar graph? That shouldn't surprise me, but for some reason it does. You saying "the more you're wrong" doesn't actually make that true you know. I have asked you several times to show your work and you haven't yet done it, so my guess is you'll just keep coming back with that and hope some of these people to whom I might be dangerous actually believe it. Because that will mean........that......that will mean.....uh..... Stop stalking. Just...stop.

Here's the Indiana death chart, genius. Yesterday, deaths dropped from 27 to 10 and they added a few "new ones." Today was lower than that. And this is what I said : Indiana can open slowly and safely.....just as everyone else can outside very large populace areas. Stop stalking. At some point....stop stalking. https://www.coronavirus.in.gov/2393.htm

You know...nobody even mentioned it, so if it was around then, I had no idea.

The thing to remember about case numbers is as test numbers go up, so will positive tests. Hospitalizations are down, as are deaths. Those are both signs that we've gotten some level of control over it. There are hot spots for sure, but everyone knows about this, now. Everyone knows to wash hands, keep physical distance, and avoid large crowds for the time being. Indiana can open slowly and safely.....just as everyone else can outside very large populace areas. I don't see May 1 as a green light, but maybe a yellow light if we're....orange now. I think we will have a soft open like most places. We (collective we) can deal with this thing now, There are better treatments, better prepared medical systems and professionals, more testing capability, therapies being developed, and there are now almost built in mitigation techniques. We're not yet out of the woods by any stretch, but the worst seems to be in the rear view mirror, so it's a good time to slowly pull back the curtain.

Spanish Mackerel, caught in a bay near Ft. Myers. That is my oldest son....he was 17 when that pic was taken last October.

The US by and large is not. One place is...maybe 2, but the second (Detroit) s a long conversation.

You're right. You are and I'm sorry. I've had enough of his ****. This ain't the first time. I apologize for my role in it but at some point, enough. We're all on edge for the same reason, and the guy finally crossed the line for me. Years. Enough.

Of course I do. Would you like to see the letter I wrote Trump in 2015 asking him not to run because he's a buffoon of a communicator? I have done nothing....nothing at all to indicate I think he's infallible. That's on you. Your interpretation because all you have is "Trump bad. Voters stupid," In this situation, I have defended him and I will gladly stand by that defense. Debate if you want, but use facts and not "orange man bad." Your problem is you automatically put me (and I would bet every other person who voted for him) in the same box and I guarantee you look down on every single one of them. It's been your angle for years. You're transparent. You're judgmental. You speak in absolutes (like saying I think he's infallible because I support him on an issue you don't). You don't generally see good in anyone you disagree with and all you do is insult them in your own way. You don't debate. And you talk about others in posts that aren't with them. How many times have you mentioned ME in just this thread? It's been the same since you joined, whenever that was. You wouldn't know impartial if it knocked on your door. That's "Josh" in a nutshell.

And you seem to have the reading comprehension of a desk chair. (When did I say he's infallible, and on what did you base that ridiculously stupid comment?) You've been stalking me around throwing rocks for years. For what? Because I write things you don't like, snowflake? Because orange man scares you and people that have respect for the office he holds scare you more? I said above I'd love to have a reasonable debate, and you're doing nothing but proving my point that you can't. Give it a rest.

Of the ignorant things you've said on this board, this wins. Hands down. First of all, you don't know a thing about "me." You know what I write here. And second of all, if I somehow offend you by being far right, I'd ask you to take a reasonable look around your world if it extends beyond a chat board. Because seriously. If you think what I say is far right? You'll be shocked by what you find once you walk outside your biased little bubble. And always look both ways before you cross the street.

That may be a first for me. Are we calling that progress???

This (in bold) is becoming the story. Or, part of it. Its escaping from a lab...intentionally or otherwise is another part. China is going to have a whole lot of questions to answer when this is over, and that's the position of the globe...not just the US. The "blame Trump" narrative has been blown up already, and this will crush it in the coming weeks. No leader....not Trump, not Obama, not John F. Kennedy nor Desmond Tutu can act on information he/she does not have. Or be blamed for actions based on bad data. To place blame in that scenario is biased, uninformed, elementary, agenda-driven hatred. Thanks for understanding and letting me vent!

There is no easy answer to any of this. (And I'm going to reply to several messages at once...sorry!!!!!) Some of it likely has to do with immunity, even if nobody wants to admit that. Some has to do with China's numbers....there is no possible way their numbers are right. The US has 50 sovereign states. Japan, for example, was able to mitigate based on one decision. Same w South Korea. Trump had no authority to close anything, so he didn't use what he didn't have. Governors did base their own recommendations on his information, but HIS information was poor from the beginning. So was Dr. Fauci's. That's on China, not him. Some is also based on compliance. But many disagree regardless of facts, and the debate would be pointless. I see so many people here just throwing blame at Trump and his "putting politics first" I find it disgusting and intellectually dishonest. In fact? I saw him act and do more to protect the US long before many others even suggested it. A month later, others were claiming this was no more dangerous than the flu. CNN raked him over the coals calling him a racist and xenophobe; as did Biden. I would love to have an honest debate with anyone about this, but it's not possible. Everyone's mind is made up. It's either Trump's fault or it's not. There are some vile people in Washington. There ARE people who are putting politics first but Trump isn't one of them. That, however is my opinion, and I know there are people who disagree with that simply for the sake of it; and that's a problem. The truth is? Trump is not a politician. He's a business man. Joe Biden? 49 years in politics and famous for saying "government has failed you." I find that ironic. Nancy Pelosi..33 years in politics. You're telling me Trump's 3 years and the economy we just came from is to blame for all of this? That's a ridiculous claim. A reaction to a man people don't like. There are many of these, but this is from February 24th. 24 days AFTER Trump put a travel ban on China. The blame? The reason? The Chinese government is communist and it did what communists do. It lied and it covered up. THAT's why we're in trouble, https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1250868745989316608?s=20

Because the dunb **** media has another target. They've dug their bunker and they can't dig out, so they're just digging deeper regardless of the evidence against China. And they look more and more foolish doing so.

If it were airborne "a lot more," we'd have more cases. It's more so than they thought originally, but now almost every paper on how people catch it focuses on enclosed/tight spaces around infected people/person for an extended period of time; and it attacks weak immune systems WAY harder than healthy ones, which is why there's such a problem in nursing homes.

Most of that's due to pollution, though.

I'd say Fox, CBS, and ABC. That gives a decent balance and most of it relatively reasonable. I stay away from Rush (who has a history of being correct on some things, just like he has a history of being incomplete and very biased) CNN (especially Don Lemon whose agenda is very obvious), MSNBC (especially Rachel Maddow, same), and the people that are really "out there." None of that means a thing. They're all preaching to their own choir.

CNN is now fully invested in one thing and one thing only; and it has nothing....ZERO to do with treating or mitigating COVID-19. Their viewership is way down; they've been fully laid bare in their intentions and their mission; and not one thing on that network is credible. I trust no one but doctors and those whose job it is to plan the true exit strategy. I have a dear friend who's an ER doc here in Indy. Been treating COVID patients literally every shift. He is on board with the HCQ trials and says there are other ongoing trials we (public) know nothing about. Like the virus, HCQ affects people in different ways. There are indeed studies out there showing its efficacy and one or two that seem to indicate otherwise. But....anecdotal evidence simply means it's not universally accepted in the medical community. It does not mean "incorrect" or false. COVID-19 has been in the US less than 6 months. There won't BE anything peer reviewed for a while. In the meantime, there are plans to deal with a rebound, enough supplies to work with it, strategies to quarantine and protect the sick and vulnerable, and plans to get us back to life as we knew it, albeit with some acceptable new normals. Those are the facts. The rhetoric is transparent and it's tired. From all angles. The truth is HCQ DID help the house rep from Michigan and it HAS helped many others. That gives a sign of hope. The gloom and doom crowd can be gloomy if they want to, but that's not necessarily the correct version of "how things are."

"I remember where I was when _______________!" Indiana basketball division Mine, 1975 losing to Kentucky in the Elite 8. I was 5 and I was crushed.

Most on this board have been very happy to pass on him for what he is not. I don't think you ever pass on a kid who has the skills and IQ he does, but I'm not a college coach.

1) For that "old school" style? Weber kettle and Weber charcoal with applewood chips 2) Traeger makes one hell of a product. Love them 3) The Green Egg still a good option too 2 and 3 in that order.

This drug should clearly be between a patient and his/her doctor; but here you have an up close and personal look at how this whole thing is being politicized. There IS evidence of this drug having some success, but depending on your political views and the places you go for information, it can also be viewed as harmful. This drug has been around for 65 years, is safe, and as a mono-pharmaceutical has zero adverse consequences. That's a fact. But still.... https://twitter.com/cnsnews/status/1249785890056089608?s=20

But they are. Amazingly so in some cases like yours. And they lie. And they believe what they want to believe. And they politicize. And they narrow their information sources to fit their own narratives. And they're lazy. And they don't generally like conflict so they follow. And they're generally negative when fearful. And they're distrusting, especially of authority - sometimes justifiably, sometimes not. And they're weak. And they're satisfied being "C students." And they avoid risk. "People" gravitate toward comfort and security. Toward safety. Very few are willing to say and do the hard things, and the attached? It changed my life. I hope it does for even one person here.