TrueHoosier62

This team should be embarrassed to even consider an NIT invitation. There's only one reason why IU would be considered and it's because, "It's IU" and, as someone above noted, we draw well. Frankly, having ourselves pimped out for TV ratings when the product is as messed up as it is, would be worse than missing the NIT altogether. Tom should go have a nice long summer with Jim, John and Joani, enjoying a barbeque and several beers, discussing strategies, and reading various books on the game of basketball, how it's played and how one can be successful.

Superb post, and well played. Logic rules

If it were possible, I'd bet my 401K AND my farm against that happening. Knight would have Crean and any of his past four teams figured out before tip off, and I'd be richer than rich, sitting court side, smoking a big fatty.

This, +1,000

The difference of course is that by that time, Knight had added three championships to the rafters of Assembly Hall, an Olympic gold medal, a Pan American games Gold medal, 12 Big Ten championships, an NIT championship, and he garnered more wins than anyone else who ever coached the game before. He was every bit the legend. That kind of background will always give one the metaphoric "coin in the pocket" or afford that person the benefit of the doubt, and allow for some mediocrity. The issue isn't whether or not Knight had great teams towards the end. We can all agree they weren't great. What's more telling though, is that you could take any one of those flawed teams listed above and on their worst day, with Knight's coaching and gamesmanship, kick the ever lovin' snot out of any team Crean has put on the floor since he arrived, (and he would have done it with less talent). Crean is a fair coach, perhaps a good one, but certainly not a great coach. His teams will always fall somewhere between last years and this years in terms of achievement, and that simply isn't good enough at IU. And for the record, if Crean's teams and his coaching ability had shown me anything comparable to those of Knight and his last seven teams, we'd not be having this conversation.

It's ironic, really. As his time with IU wore on, talented kids didn't want to play for Bob Knight. It could have been for many reasons, not the least of which was his temper, but by and large, only the tough kids, or kids who didn't mind being disciplined, were willing to play for him. Now, here we are, in a new era. We have hugely talented kids playing at IU and the one thing that keeps them from being anything more than a collection of talented kids, is discipline. Too many egos, too little selflessness, not enough focus, not enough urgency, perseverance, drive, or heart. In other  words, everything Knight's  teams were known for, regardless of their record. I'm not saying Knight should be brought back, (though I surely wouldn't complain), but I just don't see that Crean possesses the type or style of coaching that will ever translate to much more than what we saw last year. More likely, it will perpetuate the type of team we saw this year, give or take about five wins, and no championships.

I wish I could be more positive about the future of this team and program, but from start to finish, there has been very little to make me believe that next year will be anything more than a repeat of this year. Names and faces will change, but the core reason for this debacle will still be roaming up and down the side of the court.

Not sure why we'd want to go to the NIT. We'd only embarrass ourselves more. Time to call it a season and put the balls back in the rack.

Assumed improvement by the elimination of an alternative. I'm lovin' it.  Of course, you're right you know. :-) Seriously, as I've had time to rethink the new DC hire, and having factored in a season of growth, more time in the weight room, and another crop of promising kids, I think we'll improve. It probably won't be a HUGE step up, but it should be improvement nonetheless. At least the football team should experience some improved play this next season.  :laugh:

Come on IU football! Save us from the ravages of this past basketball season!

This seems fair enough, though I have to ask, sincerely, what is DWS? You're right, my post went further than the others, (I apologize), but frankly, I remember a month ago when I wrote a similar post, and received similar responses to those received by TheRobbob. The moderator at that time didn't get involved until I took it "over the line". Had they stepped in before it got to that point, the conversation would likely have stayed civil and basketball related.  If people want to berate Crean or the team's play, particularly during this dissappointing season, then they should be allowed to voice that frustration. Since I think I can assume that Tom Crean isn't posting here under some alias, nor any of the players, nothing said regarding the team ought to be taken personally by those reading the post. Consequently, replies shouldn't be personal. That's all I was trying to get across. Thanks for addressing things.

 If it's "usual" to see people posting such ambiguous and frankly throw away lines such as "anyone who disagrees" then I would find it difficult to believe your feelings were seriously dealt a blow, but maybe I'm wrong.

  HoosierRed01,   MY COMMENTS are pretty close to violating the "no bashing rule"???   A person wrote a fairly straightforward post saying what many people have been saying here lately, lamenting the plight of the basketball team/season. He aired his opinions about what he perceived to be the issues, none of which, I might add, were directed towards anyone here, and certainly none of which could reasonably be taken as personal.   Here are samples of replies to his post:   "You kind of lose all credibility when you say that we don't run an offense. We very clearly do. That should be obvious to anyone who actually watches the game".   "I realize that it is a very complex offense, so if you are used to watching seventh graders, it might be a bit over your head to figure out what is going on".   "Why hello there, Captain Hyperbole. Roy Williams, John Calipari, and even Bob Knight must be 2 year olds".   "We should just hire this guy".   "I realize that it is a very complex offense, so if you are used to watching seventh graders, it might be a bit over your head to figure out what is going on".   "Think what I posted about simple people thinking too simple applies here".   These people called him everything but mentally challened, and that was meant to be personal. Consequently, as nothing was said in response to their sarcasm and piling on, I gave them a dose of their own medicine. I'm all for keeping things civil, but if we're going to "play nice", then it has to go both ways.

To: TheRobbob:   I'm glad to see someone else echo the same points I'd made a month ago to the "Crean Crowd". Of course, your response to their blatant, personal, and belittling sarcasm better be kept in check! It's one thing for the "Crean Crowd" to do it; quite another indeed young man for you to think you can get away with it!  Take solace in this, my logical and sighted friend:  As this train wreck of a season comes skidding slowly down the tracks, you'll hear the "Crean Crowd in full throat, continue their masterful spin of the devastation, saying things like, "well, it could have been worse", or "just wait until Blackmon gets here", or my personal favorite "Well, at least Purdue didn't win it either". Just remember that these people are our brothers in the Cream and Crimson. Sure, they may be graduates from the Helen Keller school for the gifted, but we have to accept them and encourage them, and help them to develop those faculties, so tragically underdeveloped, through no fault of their own. Be kind, and be a big brother.  :yes:

No problem Mamacita, no problem at all. My rather superficial insights of the game yesterday were in direct reply to the sarcasm directed at those of us who earlier deigned to question the used car salesman we have as coach. We aren't fooled by winning streaks, at home, against Big Ten opponents in an embarrassingly down year for the league. Being upset at my post is about as lunatic as some of the pious posts above, proclaiming vindication for having stood by the team. Those of us who have already stated our opinions on the subject, apparently are secure in our convictions, as opposed to those persons who feel threatened by criticism of the team, and therefore make it a bi-weekly point to spout delirious acceptance of mediocrity. It's like the average Kentucky teenage boy, beaming with pride after having just lost his innocence, confessing later that evening that he wasn't sure his sister would go along with the idea. It just doesn't mean anything.

Oh, I enjoyed the win alright. I'm an IU fan all the way. But "concerned with the embarrassment of being wrong"???. LOLOLOLOLOL. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Good night Mr. Delusional.

Crean showed the team a video of the second Joe Louis-Max Schmeling heavyweight title fight from 1938 to motivate his team."To play the way that we did without Noah, which we knew it was a possibility yesterday, we knew it was reality today, we had to answer the bell," Crean said. "We did."   Wow, what great coaching! I wonder if he quoted from "Rudy" too. Yawwwwnnnnnn.

Yaaaawwwnnnn. Same ole, same ole. Great athletes, no plan, no adjustments, no mental toughness, no tenacity, quickly going nowhere. Next year we'll change the athletes around a bit, we'll still have no plan, no ability to adjust, no mental toughness and we'll receive tickets for a return trip to nowhere.  Yeah, that'll do it.

And all this time I thought the sentiment of "the IU basketball program is imploding" was only a metaphor. Oh well.....

  Listen Betty,   Just because you played ball doesn't make your opinion any more accurate than anyone elses, be it another fan's, player's, or coach's. So you played ball?! Big sh_ttin' deal. That doesn't mean your High School coach was worth a damn, or that your own play qualifies you as an expert of college ball, game plans, strategies, or team mascots. It may however give me cause to consider your opinion on the distribution of pop corn at half time. This team stinks because they've not been properly coached; not because they're too young. This team stinks because they've got more athletes than players. This team stinks because they have no shooters, are slow of foot on defense, and have no mental strength. Consequently, this team is outstanding at making passes to other players who're in no position to do anything with it, excellent at blowing leads, and we could win another banner, this very year, if the NCAA awarded the championship to the team best suited to turning the ball over on inbounds plays. We're going to lose Vonleh after this year, and quite possibly Yogi, -"give me the damned ball"- Ferrel. I don't care who comes in next year, the team will likely play the same way, and you, (and others like you), will still defend them for being "too young", and you, (and others like you), will be just as wrong next year. Stevens' Butler teams made it to the finals and consistently made it to the NCAA with a fraction of the talent, which shows you just how lacking Crean is in the coaching department. Oh yeah, they also played a style of game that resembled, you know, Indiana basketball. You can blindly stand by and support the team while Rome burns, but don't belittle the rest of us for pointing out that the Emperor has no clothes, or in this case, "The Coach has no Clue".

There are two main ways to win a basketball championship these days. You can do as Kentucky and many other's are trying, by recruiting highly touted NBA ready high school kids that hopefully gel during the month of February of their Freshman year, and make a run in March;   OR,   You have to recruit, as Bob Knight used to, iron willed kids who're great shooters and defenders, who more than likely will hang around for three or four years.   You can't have a mix of the two. This is what Crean is attempting, and it won't work. Vonleh would be a fool to stay another year, and you can pretty much count on at least one other player currently on the team, transferring at the end of the year.

Crean isn't the answer here. Once you accept that fact, then the solution is simple. You let him go. This isn't and shouldn't be a case of where we were, or where we are by comparison. The only question should be, "Do you believe coach Tom Crean can win a championship at Indiana"? If the answer is "No", or "I doubt it", or even, "I'm not sure", then you have to move on from him. This isn't Purdue we're talking about, it's Indiana. Purdue bases their hires and retains on the "hope and wish" approach to life. When you've won multiple national championships as we have, you don't settle for "hope and wish"; you go after someone you KNOW will have damn good shot of bringing home another banner. Tom Crean has done all he can, and we ought to be thankful for taking us this far, but truthfully, this is as far as he's capable of taking us. He has stopped the bleeding and allowed many of us to feel good about IU basketball again, but his snake oil salesman pitches, and his rah rah chants have worn thin. Instead of listening to his weekly tripe, people are beginning to see that the product on the floor these days is simply not very good. 

I don't know what to expect this year. I had high hopes for last year, but the defense was depressing. I sometimes wondered if putting blindfolds on the lot of them would have improved their play.  :biggrin: Let's hope Knorr works out. If we can get marginal improvement on that side of the ball, and the schedule is favorable again, we might have a chance to see a bowl game. I've haven't heard. Did Sudfeld transfer? 

On the small size,but if he can hit like a ton of bricks, who cares? lol What our count up to now?

Your handling of the football recruits/news/signings should receive some kind of award for excellence. It's the main reason I come here. Unbelievable job General.