TrueHoosier62

Crean is going to need hip waders real soon. The tide is rising fast.

Well, I said this was where it was headed about two months ago. That Vonleh was going pro was a forgone conclusion. That there might be a mass exodus is another. Crean is ruining this program almost as fast as he rescued it, and there's no one else to blame but Crean. Next year will be more of what we saw this year; talented kids trying to learn on the fly, having their asses handed to them, getting frustrated in the process and imploding down the stretch.

I do think a solution to the problem lies with the NBA allowing kids at any age to go straight to the pro league or some form of farm club, (you know, similar to what Kentucky runs). Let them live their dream of playing with the big boys. Then, when they've failed, as 99.5% will do, their stories may serve a useful purpose; to dissuade the next lot from making the same mistake, perhaps convincing them to get a degree first before rolling the dice.

Yes he did say that..... About 25-26 years ago...... In a completely different context. Then as today, he was being asked his opinion, he gave it, and all hell broke loose? Who's to blame more, Knight for giving his opinion or the journalist who asked for it? Then as today, I feel the hue and cry over its use is/was more theatrical than sincere.

1. Knight wasn't speaking to a room full of women, previously raped or otherwise. He was being asked a question, presumably by CBS 2. Not all women, previously raped or otherwise, are so thin skinned as to have a nervous breakdown from seeing, hearing or saying the word "rape". That there may be one amongst their number that may be offended by a form or use of the word that reminds them of their own experience and context, is hardly justification for avoiding the word in it's entirety.  3. I don't worship the ground upon which Knight walks. I reserve that for Jesus Christ alone. Knight was simply a brilliant coach that too many people try to "dis" and demean by using his forthright, well spoken, clear, concise and sometimes yes, politically incorrect speech against him. 4.The fact is, he's right. The NBA has destroyed the college game. Indeed, they have bastardized the very game itself. 5. "Bastardized" here, is being used in a purely non judgmental form.

OMG, he used the word "rape" as a metaphor to describe something that in his eyes was heinous. Stop the presses! People in every walk of life apply hyperbole every single day, and the handmaiden to hyperbole is the metaphor. I wonder how many people have compared their asinine boss or their overbearing spouse to Hitler?  Frankly, I still find RMK refreshingly blunt, which is far better, in my opinion, than those who're politically correct, and spew mindless drivel. 

I'm not sure I agree with the assessment that the tournament is a crap shoot, but I doubt you meant it to that extent. Bob Knight's three championships weren't because he was lucky at shooting craps. His teams were flat out better than anyone else in the tournament, (well, the 76' and 80' teams were anyway). It does take a certain degree of luck, but if a team has the right coach and blend of players, it can make all the difference between relying on luck and making your own.

I remember watching Amaker play at Duke, then coach at Michigan, but didn't know he was coaching at Harvard until today. I don't care what his team does for an encore to today's upset of Cincinnati, I like the style his team employed, (constant motion and a stickier than hell defense). Their movement was fluid, they knew exactly what they were doing and how to execute the game plan, and you could see the frustration in the faces of the Cincinnati players. They reminded me of IU, twenty five years ago. I can think of a lot worse candidates to coach IU than Tommy Amaker, not the least of which is the man holding that position right now.

I'd be for anyone who can coach, inspire, teach and discipline. In effect, the antithesis of Crean. That person should know how to install the motion offense and run it to precision, and stick mostly with man to man defense, forsaking the god awful zone. The players ought to be taught how to play and grow as a team, helping each other out on the court. The coach should be someone who refuses to be bought, or manipulated in any way by the money hungry masses in the NCAA. They should be willing to remind us that whilst an NBA career is great, less than 1% ever get a chance there, and even fewer amount to anything, making it little more than fool's gold. Consequently, his pursuit should be after men of good character and integrity who want to come to IU to play college basketball for at least three years, preferably four. If high school kids want a stepping stone to the NBA, let them go to Kentucky. We should remain true to who we are, not aspire to be something we're not.

You know, for all the complaining we've done and derisive comments we've made through the years about Kentucky, we're slowly becoming just like them. We've pretty much given up recruiting the high school kid who most likely would stay for four years, and have instead turned our attention and pursuits to those who're NBA wannabes. We've sold our souls and what for years made us distinctly "INDIANA", so we could be something we dislike in other programs. Can any of you imagine Crean actively recruiting Damon Bailey? Or Chris Reynolds? Senior nights at IU are going to become a thing of the past, as so too, I imagine, are "Raise the banner to the rafters" ceremonies.

"Apathy" is a booming community right in the heart of West Lafayette. We do not want those people taking up residence in Bloomington, IN.

*POP*

ROFLMAO! Well played. I wish I'd thought of that.

I wish Tom Crean were the answer, but he just plain isn't. His teams are SO fundamentally flawed as to be laughable, and the fact that he had a fair number of Freshman on the roster doesn't excuse it.  Indeed, he could have started Hollowell, Perea, Ferrell, Etherington and Sheehey, not one Freshman in the lot, and does anyone think that team would have done any better? Of course not, they're systemically FLAWED. Instead, we started Vonleh and then couldn't (or didn't) get him the ball on a consistent basis. Who's the point guard on this team, the person responsible for doing that? Oh, that's right, it's Yogi, "give me the damned ball" Ferrell. Sheehey may as well have graduated last year because he surely had already checked out. Perea, when he wasn't embarrassing the program for his off the court activity, did his best to embarrass the program with his on the court inactivity. Etherington is a nice kid, but he should be cast for the next remake of "The Invisible Man". And Hollowell? I'm not sure he could start for Indiana State, much less IU, so what you do with him remains a complete mystery. He's slower afoot than Watford, has no dependable shot, and can't play defense. Other than that, he's a future hall of famer. Those, my fellow IU enthusiasts, aren't Freshman, they're four, second year players plus one four year player, (Sheehey). They've already been indoctrinated by Crean and his "system", whatever the hell that is. The most damning indictment against Crean is that he didn't start that lot because they apparently weren't good enough. So he started or heavily integrated, Vonleh, Williams, Robinson, Gordon, and something called a "Howard" into that mess, (by the way, two of those last five were also Seniors). Either way, we proceeded to lose to Penn State, Nebraska, Northwestern, and 12 other teams in a weaker than normal Big Ten, (I'd be shocked if any team from the Big Ten reaches the final four this year, and I'm not betting on any to reach the sweet sixteen either). So what about next year? After Vonleh leaves, does it matter? If Vonleh forgets for a moment that until he came here he had a fairly good chance at an NBA career, and decides to spend another year under the guidance of CTC, does it matter? This team has no direction, no discipline, no working plan, (or at least a plan that anyone knows about, or can implement). They're a collection of athletes that must have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, and having awoken the next morning, refreshed and ready for a new day, decided that they were an IU basketball team. They weren't.

Until Crean is fired, our basketball seasons are going to resemble a badly scratched LP. He "plays" a coach, not so unlike Gene Hackman played a coach in the movie "Hoosiers". In fact, at this point, I'd take Gene Hackman's acting over Tom Crean's coaching.

LOL, I was gonna say something along similar lines.

This team should be embarrassed to even consider an NIT invitation. There's only one reason why IU would be considered and it's because, "It's IU" and, as someone above noted, we draw well. Frankly, having ourselves pimped out for TV ratings when the product is as messed up as it is, would be worse than missing the NIT altogether. Tom should go have a nice long summer with Jim, John and Joani, enjoying a barbeque and several beers, discussing strategies, and reading various books on the game of basketball, how it's played and how one can be successful.

Superb post, and well played. Logic rules

If it were possible, I'd bet my 401K AND my farm against that happening. Knight would have Crean and any of his past four teams figured out before tip off, and I'd be richer than rich, sitting court side, smoking a big fatty.

This, +1,000

The difference of course is that by that time, Knight had added three championships to the rafters of Assembly Hall, an Olympic gold medal, a Pan American games Gold medal, 12 Big Ten championships, an NIT championship, and he garnered more wins than anyone else who ever coached the game before. He was every bit the legend. That kind of background will always give one the metaphoric "coin in the pocket" or afford that person the benefit of the doubt, and allow for some mediocrity. The issue isn't whether or not Knight had great teams towards the end. We can all agree they weren't great. What's more telling though, is that you could take any one of those flawed teams listed above and on their worst day, with Knight's coaching and gamesmanship, kick the ever lovin' snot out of any team Crean has put on the floor since he arrived, (and he would have done it with less talent). Crean is a fair coach, perhaps a good one, but certainly not a great coach. His teams will always fall somewhere between last years and this years in terms of achievement, and that simply isn't good enough at IU. And for the record, if Crean's teams and his coaching ability had shown me anything comparable to those of Knight and his last seven teams, we'd not be having this conversation.

It's ironic, really. As his time with IU wore on, talented kids didn't want to play for Bob Knight. It could have been for many reasons, not the least of which was his temper, but by and large, only the tough kids, or kids who didn't mind being disciplined, were willing to play for him. Now, here we are, in a new era. We have hugely talented kids playing at IU and the one thing that keeps them from being anything more than a collection of talented kids, is discipline. Too many egos, too little selflessness, not enough focus, not enough urgency, perseverance, drive, or heart. In other  words, everything Knight's  teams were known for, regardless of their record. I'm not saying Knight should be brought back, (though I surely wouldn't complain), but I just don't see that Crean possesses the type or style of coaching that will ever translate to much more than what we saw last year. More likely, it will perpetuate the type of team we saw this year, give or take about five wins, and no championships.

I wish I could be more positive about the future of this team and program, but from start to finish, there has been very little to make me believe that next year will be anything more than a repeat of this year. Names and faces will change, but the core reason for this debacle will still be roaming up and down the side of the court.

Not sure why we'd want to go to the NIT. We'd only embarrass ourselves more. Time to call it a season and put the balls back in the rack.

Assumed improvement by the elimination of an alternative. I'm lovin' it.  Of course, you're right you know. :-) Seriously, as I've had time to rethink the new DC hire, and having factored in a season of growth, more time in the weight room, and another crop of promising kids, I think we'll improve. It probably won't be a HUGE step up, but it should be improvement nonetheless. At least the football team should experience some improved play this next season.  :laugh: