(2019) SF Keion Brooks Jr. to Kentucky

[mdn82 25,510]

First question...Does Keion fit at Indiana?  
Second question....do we want another player worried primarily about his draft prospects?
Third question....do we want a kid who looks at a season and runs away instead of wanting to be the reason it gets better?
I dunno'.  I'm sick of Noah Vonleh.  Thomas Bryant.  Romeo Langford.  I want Indiana Hoosiers...not minor league basketball players and a stack of talented players who will never be a team.

1. He is very talented so I would say yes.

2. Every kid that comes to IU as a top 150 kid thinks they are or will be draft material.

3. I don’t even know how to answer that and I am guessing that was rhetorical.


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[Old Friend 8,389]

1 minute ago, mdn82 said:

1. He is very talented so I would say yes.

Talented doesn't mean a kid fits.  Stockpiling talent hasn't worked.  At all.  

2. Every kid that comes to IU as a top 150 kid thinks they are or will be draft material.

I know....but Cody Zeller wasn't concerned about his draft prospects as a reason he chose a school.  As an example....  We've had enough talented kids who don't fit.  

3. I don’t even know how to answer that and I am guessing that was rhetorical.

It was a serious question.  Why do we want kids who see a bad season without them on the team and run away instead of saying "I want to be a reason that gets better" ?


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[Hoosierfan2017 21,075]

9 hours ago, Chris007 said:

I always say you are much quicker than most people on here give you credit for. 

Ok I was just asking a question because there's nothing out there about him being down to two teams, no need to be a jerk about it. 

[DChoosier 8,133]

36 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Dad wanted UK for his draft prospects for a long time. 


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In a way I don’t have a problem with this train of thought  because I understand a business student picking IU because of Kelly (ie the school will help me get the job I want).

On the other hand I cannot believe how overblown the “”Cal will get you to the NBA “ mantra is. He has a lot of players in the NBA because he successfully recruited NBA talent.  I could have coached Davis, Rose, Wall etc into the pros while drinking beer, rubbing my belly and watching TV.  How many UK players are in the league that no one thought had a chance? My guess is virtually no one, That should be the marker.

[Brass Cannon 24,349]

13 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

In a way I don’t have a problem with this train of thought  because I understand a business student picking IU because of Kelly (ie the school will help me get the job I want).

On the other hand I cannot believe how overblown the “”Cal will get you to the NBA “ mantra is. He has a lot of players in the NBA because he successfully recruited NBA talent.  I could have coached Davis, Rose, Wall etc into the pros while drinking beer, rubbing my belly and watching TV.  How many UK players are in the league that no one thought had a chance? My guess is virtually no one, That should be the marker.

I think kids have realized this hence his recruiting drop off. Still gets some studs just because the benefits of UK. The Dorms, book reports on the Cat in the Hat(In the honors college) and sorority girls with no teeth are all benefits with appeal. 

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

First question...Does Keion fit at Indiana?  

Second question....do we want another player worried primarily about his draft prospects?

Third question....do we want a kid who looks at a season and runs away instead of wanting to be the reason it gets better?

I dunno'.  I'm sick of Noah Vonleh.  Thomas Bryant.  Romeo Langford.  I want Indiana Hoosiers...not minor league basketball players and a stack of talented players who will never be a team.

Thomas Bryant?? If anything that kid played with too much heart.

 

Like it or not, you need all of those guys and all the guys to come who you will likely not be a fan of in order to win it all. It’s going to take a combination of the old school upperclassmen heavy teams with some new age star power. Villanova is damn near the best example out there.

 

Also, what’s wrong with a kid looking out for his own best interests? Did you go into work every day for the name on the front of your time card? No. Like it or not, it’s a business now. Indiana needs to be a place that creates mutually beneficial opportunities for these kids. Kentucky, like it or not, has done a great job of this. Probably in an unsustainable fashion, but they did it well.

 

In short, no need to answer your three questions, the only one that matters is do we need Keion Brooks? That my old friend, is a big hell yes.

 

 

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[Old Friend 8,389]

26 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Thomas Bryant?? If anything that kid played with too much heart.

 

Like it or not, you need all of those guys and all the guys to come who you will likely not be a fan of in order to win it all. It’s going to take a combination of the old school upperclassmen heavy teams with some new age star power. Villanova is damn near the best example out there.

 

Also, what’s wrong with a kid looking out for his own best interests? Did you go into work every day for the name on the front of your time card? No. Like it or not, it’s a business now. Indiana needs to be a place that creates mutually beneficial opportunities for these kids. Kentucky, like it or not, has done a great job of this. Probably in an unsustainable fashion, but they did it well.

 

In short, no need to answer your three questions, the only one that matters is do we need Keion Brooks? That my old friend, is a big hell yes.

 

 

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Villanova IS the best example, but not for the reasons you think.   Jay Wright was 52-46 in his first 3 years at Villanova,  NIT all 3 seasons and ended one of them with a losing record.  He built his team the way he needed it.  He didn't just stockpile talent.  And he continues to recruit to what he needs over the course of time.   Which is my point.  Do we need a kid who's priority is his NBA draft prospect?  Does that help build a team like Archie needs to build it, or is he just a talented player who really doesn't fit the long term goals of the program?   So yeah....Villanova is an excellent example; but we're not talking about the same thing.   Wright did the same thing at Hofstra.  The formula is there.  My question is whether or not Brooks fits that formula and I'm not sure he does.   Maybe

Nothing is wrong with a kid looking out for his own bets interests.  I never said anything was wrong with that.   If his priority in choosing a school is how or if it helps his draft prospects, he doesn't fit the culture at Indiana.  Or Purdue.  He fits just fine at Kentucky.  Square peg, round hole.   If he wants to play at Indiana and be part of what Archie is trying to build?  Great.  Bring it on.  But I will never believe Indiana is a place for one and done players unless we get 2-3 every year.  We have one now.  How's it working out?  His agenda is different than every other kid on the team.  That's a problem, and I know you can see it as clearly as I can

We agree absolutely on the fact that Indiana needs to be a place to create mutually beneficial opportunities for kids.   But...those opportunities don't necessarily need to be the same opportunities Kentucky offers.  I like juniors and seniors.  I like experienced teams.  Like Iowa.  Purdue.  Michigan State.  Michigan.  (and yeah, "experienced" now means kids with 2+ years in a program.  I understand that and completely agree with it.)  Going back to Villanova...when they won it last season, Brunson was a junior,  Bridges a redshirt junior, Paschall a redshirt junior, Booth a redshirt junior, DiVencenzo a redshirt sophomore. You see my point... Brooks, if his priority is his NBA draft prospect will never BE a redshirt sophomore.  So he'll never BE part of a solution.  He'll be a ship that passes through.

Okay....why?  Why do we need Brooks?  A year ago, you'd likely have told me we "need" Romeo, too.  Not working out so well for the reasons stated above.  I'd love him if he wants to be part of the solution.  But if we're just a necessary stopover on his way to the NBA and he'll never be invested here?  We don't need him.  You may want him, but I don't see a need at all.

[mdn82 25,510]

We need Brooks to have the best talent. You bash the Romeo thing, but talent is looking at IU due to the spotlight a name like Romeo Langford shined on IU. You may not like that but that’s the way it is. I will continue to disagree in that we need talent to win. I want the best players available.


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[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Not quoting just to save space...

 

Villanova has been signing the top talent in recent years, including McDAAs. They have exactly what you described PLUS the one/two and dones. My argument is that we need both. A heavy hand of juniors and seniors with the added bonus of a Romeo or Keion. I see your point, but I don’t think Brunson nor Spellman not Quiverly nor Swider had plans to be in school longer than it took to get drafted.

 

Romeo was never going to fix the problems of this roster. He’s not a primary ball handler and he’s not a dominant post presence. Not his fault, but he wasn’t the answer. I’d still say we needed him. Good for Indiana in the long run. Hope it turns out to be a good thing for him as well.

 

 

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[Old Friend 8,389]

2 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

We need Brooks to have the best talent. You bash the Romeo thing, but talent is looking at IU due to the spotlight a name like Romeo Langford shined on IU. You may not like that but that’s the way it is. I will continue to disagree in that we need talent to win. I want the best players available.


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I want the best players available if they're going to be here more than one year.   One year rentals, regardless of talent aren't going to build this or any program in a sustainable way.

It's why Tom Crean's Big Ten champions were followed by 8th and 10th place finishes.   Do you think Anthony Edwards will make Georgia a successful program?   Do you think Georgia will win the SEC with him or make a deep run in the NCAA tournament?

If we get Brooks AND a bunch of others like Duke did this season?  Yeah...I see that argument.  But him by himself as a one and done?  I don't see that as helping anything as a program.  You have to build consistent teams....not stockpile talent that doesn't fit together as a team.  

[Old Friend 8,389]

5 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Not quoting just to save space...

Villanova has been signing the top talent in recent years, including McDAAs. They have exactly what you described PLUS the one/two and dones. My argument is that we need both. A heavy hand of juniors and seniors with the added bonus of a Romeo or Keion.

Romeo was never going to fix the problems of this roster. He’s not a primary ball handler and he’s not a dominant post presence. Not his fault, but he wasn’t the answer. I’d still say we needed him. Good for Indiana in the long run. Hope it turns out to be a good thing for him as well.


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But Tim Thomas is the only one and done Villanova's ever had.   I'm with you if you're telling me Brooks will stay for a couple of years...which is why I mentioned that above.  Villanova isn't doing it with one and done's....they're doing it with the formula I referenced above and I absolutely agree with it.  

I wanted Romeo as much as anyone and wish him nothing but the best.  That said, he's not necessarily shown interest in being part of any solution or building a program.  I think he wanted an Adidas school and wanted to stay close to home.  He's a brand.  That's not working at Indiana.  No, he wasn't going to fix the problem in one year.  But if he stayed for 2?  He sure helps.

Edit :  It would also help tremendously if Archie became better at player development.  Wright is exceptional at that.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

I added text after you quoted - all of those Nova players I listed are in the same position as Keion rankings wise. They’re the top talent, but outside of the top 10 or so it really becomes a crap shoot of who’s a one and done and who’s sticking around. Not sure how much of that is luck or recruiting in that sweet spot for Wright, but I think it’s a bit of a gamble either way, but a worthwhile gamble. Arguments were made that Zeller and Bryant were one and done. They both came back. Keion and TJD seem to be in the same vein.

Regardless, the recruiting strategy is to lock down the borders. That means the top in-state talent barring glaring issues.


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[ray 1,563]

15 hours ago, Chris007 said:

So it is IU and UK. My info was correct? Wonder where that came from. 

I'm not sure if your info is correct...just as I don't know if the posters who said he already signed with Indiana are correct.

I would guess those two schools are on Keion's mind and likely at the top, but no one has told me there's a tie and a third place on some sort of list.  

I wasn't doubting that someone told you there was a tie.  I was merely stating how silly that sounds.  Someone is the front runner at all times, even if the college in the front changes consistently.  And, more than anything, I was pointing out that I doubt anyone really KNOWS (with the exception of maybe Keion, and if that's the case, then there isn't a tie game at this point).  Until he signs, even a coaching staff cannot be completely certain.

You and I seem to exchange a few inadvertent blows (they are at least inadvertent from my end).  Anyways, please know that my comment wasn't directed at you anymore than the whole evolving saga that this recruitment (and others in the past) has become.

[ray 1,563]

9 hours ago, mdn82 said:

No I do not know his family, but I am friends with a couple of his ex coaches. Which is why I said months ago this will come down to UK and IU. Dad wanted UK for his draft prospects for a long time. Keion at the time want IU and to play with TJD. Dad has had him hold off. This season has hard for IU and hasn’t exactly helped us here. I don’t know what percentages you speak of but there is nothing that deals with absolutes in recruiting until there is pen to paper.


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Thanks again, mdn82.

I agree that there are no absolutes.  And it's nice to know you have a couple close connections.  I admittedly have none.

[Chris007 43,625]

1 minute ago, ray said:

I'm not sure if your info is correct...just as I don't know if the posters who said he already signed with Indiana are correct.

I would guess those two schools are on Keion's mind and likely at the top, but no one has told me there's a tie and a third place on some sort of list.  

I wasn't doubting that someone told you there was a tie.  I was merely stating how silly that sounds.  Someone is the front runner at all times, even if the college in the front changes consistently.  And, more than anything, I was pointing out that I doubt anyone really KNOWS (with the exception of maybe Keion, and if that's the case, then there isn't a tie game at this point).  Until he signs, even a coaching staff cannot be completely certain.

You and I seem to exchange a few inadvertent blows (they are at least inadvertent from my end).  Anyways, please know that my comment wasn't directed at you anymore than the whole evolving saga that this recruitment (and others in the past) has become.

oh, It's all good. Yes you are correct it does sound silly saying the teams are tied. Yes there is always just one person who knows for sure. 

[Bowhunter 2,693]

IMO UK is always a factor. They can swoop in and change a recruitment at anytime.

UK can be just as bad for us when they miss a few targets than when they don’t. Now a guy like Brooks who was maybe 2nd on their wishlist moves to 1st when their number 1 recruits chooses another school instead of them. Some players don’t like being on a waiting list, some look at it as a break that falls in their favor. $ is unfortunately the name of the game.

That being said, it seems at least a couple of our inside guys still feel we are the team to beat.

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[Baltimore Hoosier 986]

Wake me up when he's committed... And signed a LOI.

[Brass Cannon 24,349]

Just now, Baltimore Hoosier said:

Wake me up when he's committed... And signed a LOI.

Sleeping for 2 months sounds wonderful. Sign me up also

[Dalton26 16,892]

Split those posts off into the Random Archie/basketball talk thread

[JHoosier914 1,187]

37 minutes ago, Dalton26 said:

Split those posts off into the Random Archie/basketball talk thread

Thank you