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Offer and Acceptance in Hoosiers Basketball

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I'm just confused on why you guys think we have the luxury to tell kids, I'm going to extend you this offer but don't commit till I say you're good enough. That would be the fastest I've ever seen a recruit lose interest.

terminology. Don't extend the "offer" immediately but express strong interest. Make yourself desirable.

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terminology. Don't extend the "offer" immediately but express strong interest. Make yourself desirable.


Ok Wayne here comes UNC for the score. In the mean time we are left holding our junk.

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I'm just confused on why you guys think we have the luxury to tell kids, I'm going to extend you this offer but don't commit till I say you're good enough. That would be the fastest I've ever seen a recruit lose interest.

I'm confused why people think every single school is able to issue dozens of offers a year without having any discussion about expectations, timelines, and team needs. It doesn't make sense from the school's perspective. It means you couldn't make any offers until you were sure about each player. The whole nature of a system where scholarships are limited, positions are set and very particularized, and filling these positions is dependent on the decisions of teenagers absolutely requires more discussion than "here's an offer, accept any time, I also have offers out to these 8 guys so make sure you get it in before them". Everyone in the system expects it. If the kid doesn't like the accompanying discussion, then he doesn't choose the school. 

 

Might as well beat my head against a tree as to argue with a used car salesman I mean lawyer. If His only offers were from the little sisters of the poor and the likes than I would be worried. He had solid offers and interest. Like others have said we can't throw out an offer and say we will call you when we are ready for you.

Exactly none of my comment was saying we should be worried about his skills or discussing his other offers. I actually said his skills weren't an issue. You quoted my comment, discussed my occupation, and then did not bother to address anything I said. It's OK to admit when you don't have anything to say in response to a good point and just move on.

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Did anyone really think Cody would not contribute his freshman year? I don't remember that. Your memory may be better than mine though Armchair assistant.

When he stepped on campus he was 210 lbs so that tempered a lot of expectations. By the season though he was 235 ish.

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I'm confused why people think every single school is able to issue dozens of offers a year without having any discussion about expectations, timelines, and team needs. It doesn't make sense from the school's perspective. It means you couldn't make any offers until you were sure about each player. The whole nature of a system where scholarships are limited, positions are set and very particularized, and filling these positions is dependent on the decisions of teenagers absolutely requires more discussion than "here's an offer, accept any time, I also have offers out to these 8 guys so make sure you get it in before them". Everyone in the system expects it. If the kid doesn't like the accompanying discussion, then he doesn't choose the school.

Wow, the fact that you assume that's how things went is remarkable. If you don't think the kids good enough fine, question why we expressed interest, but my god to think that we might have wanted him as an 8th option so we offered him anyhow is ignorant. I'm sure the coaches wanted this guy and were happy he committed. And if you don't agree cool, but quit with this perceived notion that we offer everyone we express interest in and just hope the ones we want commit before the others, because in no way is that how it happens.

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[quote name="MartintheMopMan" post="203411" timestamp="1446069087"]I'm confused why people think every single school is able to issue dozens of offers a year without having any discussion about expectations, timelines, and team needs. It doesn't make sense from the school's perspective. It means you couldn't make any offers until you were sure about each player. The whole nature of a system where scholarships are limited, positions are set and very particularized, and filling these positions is dependent on the decisions of teenagers absolutely requires more discussion than "here's an offer, accept any time, I also have offers out to these 8 guys so make sure you get it in before them". Everyone in the system expects it. If the kid doesn't like the accompanying discussion, then he doesn't choose the school.[/quote
Wow, the fact that you assume that's how things went is remarkable. If you don't think the kids good enough fine, question why we expressed interest, but my god to think that we might have wanted him as an 8th option so we offered him anyhow is ignorant. I'm sure the coaches wanted this guy and were happy he committed. And if you don't agree cool, but quit with this perceived notion that we offer everyone we express interest in and just hope the ones we want commit before the others, because in no way is that how it happens.

I have never said I didn't think the kid is good enough. Nor did I say Durham was our 8th choice. I don't assume that's how this particular recruitment went. We were discussing the general practice of whether schools offer with conditions, not Durham's particular case. Please don't put words in my mouth. 

 

We offer everyone we offer. We have extensive records of when each player has been offered. If you have records indicating we are timing those offers based on expected commitments, I would appreciate you showing them.

 

 

For example, Eron Gordon was offered in 8th grade. Do you think that offer was made with the intention and belief he may immediately accept it and have become the first 2016 recruit back in 2011?

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I have never said I didn't think the kid is good enough. Nor did I say Durham was our 8th choice. I don't assume that's how this particular recruitment went. We were discussing the general practice of whether schools offer with conditions, not Durham's particular case. Please don't put words in my mouth.

We offer everyone we offer. We have extensive records of when each player has been offered. If you have records indicating we are timing those offers based on expected commitments, I would appreciate you showing them.

For example, Eron Gordon was offered in 8th grade. Do you think that offer was made with the intention and belief he may immediately accept it and have become the first 2016 recruit back in 2012?

Absolutely not not do I think the coaching staff had any thought he would do that. Although if he did commit, I don't think they'd have a problem with it. A pretty good lock on a kid with extensive potential.

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Absolutely not not do I think the coaching staff had any thought he would do that. Although if he did commit, I don't think they'd have a problem with it. A pretty good lock on a kid with extensive potential.

And you don't think so because you think the coaching staff was just gambling and hoping? Or because they had a realistic conversation with Eron and his family about the offer, what it means, and both sides put input into the timeline they foresaw for his recruitment?

 

That's all I'm saying. That the system can only work if coaches and players are talking about the offers they make when they make them and being forthright about their expectations for the developing class. These offers are big deals, they're contracts for a player to close their recruiting and exclusively play for one school in exchange for a monetary gain. It would be irresponsible if they're just being dropped off in the mail without both parties who will be entering into the contract understanding where the other party is coming from.

 

The conversation may only be "We really like you, we think you would be a good fit, but we have already made other offers to these three players and need to see how those offers will play out first. We want you to have this offer to show you we're absolutely committed to you if something else happens though" but it's a conversation. And given the amount of communication between players and staff, it is unbelievable to say they make these offers and just don't talk about these factors afterwards.

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And just to be clear, I'm not purporting to have any idea what happened in this particular case or any knowledge of Durham's recruitment. I have no reason to believe that Durham accepted his offer unexpectedly or that the coaching staff ever told him not to accept the offer when it was given. My point is in regards to the recruiting system as a whole.

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And you don't think so because you think the coaching staff was just gambling and hoping? Or because they had a realistic conversation with Eron and his family about the offer, what it means, and both sides put input into the timeline they foresaw for his recruitment?

That's all I'm saying. That the system can only work if coaches and players are talking about the offers they make when they make them and being forthright about their expectations for the developing class. These offers are big deals, they're contracts for a player to close their recruiting and exclusively play for one school in exchange for a monetary gain. It would be irresponsible if they're just being dropped off in the mail without both parties who will be entering into the contract understanding where the other party is coming from.

The conversation may only be "We really like you, we think you would be a good fit, but we have already made other offers to these three players and need to see how those offers will play out first. We want you to have this offer to show you we're absolutely committed to you if something else happens though" but it's a conversation. And given the amount of communication between players and staff, it is unbelievable to say they make these offers and just don't talk about these factors afterwards.

I never they don't talk about timelines and get a feel for each others interest, but no I don't think they say anything like "we like you but for now think of you as a back up and only want you in case these others fall through" Do you honestly think you'd ever get a recruit doing that?

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There's such a thing as a conditional offer. Happens all the time. I was once told by a school that they liked me but they only had 1 scholarship left in the class and they needed a point guard (I was a 2/3). They told me that they were targeting a pg, if he accepted they were taking him, if they didn't then the scholarship was mine.

If they hadn't gave me the condition I would have accepted the scholarship and they wouldn't have had a pg. The pg they were targeting ended up taking it and I went somewhere else.

I'm just confused on why you guys think we have the luxury to tell kids, I'm going to extend you this offer but don't commit till I say you're good enough. That would be the fastest I've ever seen a recruit lose interest.

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I never they don't talk about timelines and get a feel for each others interest, but no I don't think they say anything like "we like you but for now think of you as a back up and only want you in case these others fall through" Do you honestly think you'd ever get a recruit doing that?

I don't think they use those words, but my example of them telling a recruit they already have a few offers out that they want to wait for is a softer way of saying something very very similar. Recruits and schools are entering into a mutually beneficial relationship with their own personal leverage. The party with more leverage will be able to use that to control the final result more. I think if someone told Thon Maker to hold off on accepting they would blow it, but telling Jordy Tshimanga to hold off would likely work. Part of successful recruiting, like all negotiating, is understanding how much leverage you actually have and how to use it.

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I don't think they use those words, but my example of them telling a recruit they already have a few offers out that they want to wait for is a softer way of saying something very very similar. Recruits and schools are entering into a mutually beneficial relationship with their own personal leverage. The party with more leverage will be able to use that to control the final result more. I think if someone told Thon Maker to hold off on accepting they would blow it, but telling Jordy Tshimanga to hold off would likely work. Part of successful recruiting, like all negotiating, is understanding how much leverage you actually have and how to use it.

That's what I'm saying by the meet and get a feel for each others interest.

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That's what I'm saying by the meet and get a feel for each others interest.

If we agree then why are we arguing? Because we're very passionate about this?

 

Also, if someone recognizes that as being very close to a quote from a movie or TV show and can tell me what it is, that would be great. I can almost hear it in my head. I think it's actually "yelling or shouting". I cannot figure out what it's from, my google searching failed, and my wife didn't know either.

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