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Offer and Acceptance in Hoosiers Basketball

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If we agree then why are we arguing? Because we're very passionate about this?

Also, if someone recognizes that as being very close to a quote from a movie or TV show and can tell me what it is, that would be great. I can almost hear it in my head. I think it's actually "yelling or shouting". I cannot figure out what it's from, my google searching failed, and my wife didn't know either.

I'm not sure we do agree. I never said they don't meet, I argued that they never extend an offer to a kid saying we're hoping to get someone else so please don't accept this offer.

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There's such a thing as a conditional offer. Happens all the time. I was once told by a school that they liked me but they only had 1 scholarship left in the class and they needed a point guard (I was a 2/3). They told me that they were targeting a pg, if he accepted they were taking him, if they didn't then the scholarship was mine.

If they hadn't gave me the condition I would have accepted the scholarship and they wouldn't have had a pg. The pg they were targeting ended up taking it and I went somewhere else.

That's fine, you weren't offered by that school. They said they would offer you if they missed on someone. I agree that can happen if you're not a sought after recruit, or they know you really want to go there. Your situation has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

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I'm not sure we do agree. I never said they don't meet, I argued that they never extend an offer to a kid saying we're hoping to get someone else so please don't accept this offer.

But if the meeting and getting a feel for each other's interests includes a discussion of the current offers made for the position and coaches expectations on that offer, then part of that discussion from both sides necessarily has to be about accepting the offer early.

 

So, like this, we have offers out on a few bigs and think we're in OK shape. But, the conversation with Maker and Davis leaves a lot of uncertainty with the coaches. So, they go out and talk to Tshiminga because he's good and uncommitted. They make an offer because I don't think this coaching staff is capable of talking to a player for more than 15 minutes without offers pouring out.

 

Making an offer isn't (or oh man, at this level it really shouldn't be) just sending a form letter. They would then talk about the terms of the offer, Tshiminga's obligations under the offer, the school's obligations, long-term implications (this is why you offer earlier than you want to accept sometimes. You may not have as good an opportunity to hash everything out later).

 

What do you think they tell Tshiminga about Maker and Davis? He isn't stupid, he realizes they are our first choices and spots are limited. So, if we're his best offer a rational actor would immediately accept in order to prevent Maker or Davis from taking his spot. But, even if we're not. The options for the conversation involve: 1) Not talking about the other offers at all. Highly unlikely. They aren't secrets and Tshiminga needs to know as much as he can to make this decision. 2) Talking about the other offers but communicating that it's an open field for whomever commits first. I guess it's possible, but it is the behavior of an organization who doesn't care which person they get, and recruiting does not encourage those behaviors. 3) Telling Tshiminga other offers are out there, talking about them, communicating the staff's expectations about the other offers and making it clear to him we are still pursuing other candidates and not ready to accept offers. Pretty much what I've seen in dozens of business transactions. 4) Telling Tshiminga he's lame and we totes want someone else but I guess here's an offer see-ya. No way.

 

For a real-life example. Eron Gordon, we already talked about how the staff did not expect him to accept his early offer, but what about right now? His best other offer is a Seton Hall team that will be happy if they finish the season at .500. He knows we have other offers out for his position and Indiana is his best shot at playing on a winning team, with a tourney run, and getting national attention. So, what has been preventing him from accepting his offer and forcing his way onto the higher level team?

 

Don't get me wrong, I think we offer too early, I think we offer too quickly, I think we offer too often. But, the reality of the offers is they have to have strings attached or schools lack any leverage and we could end up with a class of 5 centers because we had them all accept in 9th grade within the same month after making some stupid offers.

 

We made 43 offers for the class of 2016. You either have to believe the coaching staff was prepared to accept whichever 5 came in first, knew that 38 of those offers wouldn't pan out, or had some kind of conversation to prevent a wave of acceptances. 

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It actually has a lot to do with what is being discussed.

"...but no I don't think they say anything like "we like you but for now think of you as a back up and only want you in case these others fall through" Do you honestly think you'd ever get a recruit doing that?"

You made that quote on a previous page, and it's exactly what happened to me. The example I referenced, the school told me if they had two open scholarships I'd have one, but they only had one and needed a point guard. If their pg target didn't accept the scholarship would go to me.

These "conditional" offers happen. How many times do we hear kids claiming scholarship offers when reports are the school hadn't offered? Most likely because the offer had conditions to it, and wasn't a straight-up offer that would be accepted on the spot.

That's fine, you weren't offered by that school. They said they would offer you if they missed on someone. I agree that can happen if you're not a sought after recruit, or they know you really want to go there. Your situation has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

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I popped the conversation out of the Durham thread. It really has nothing to do with him and was distracting. Plus, then people don't have to read my negativity.

word!

I think this topic is intriguing, particularly with IUhoops.

What I really want to know is how Indiana ended up signing Priller and April? My biggest 2016 fears will hopefully be answered in the next month.

Indiana should be a school that reloads rather than rebuilds, in my mind at least.

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word!

I think this topic is intriguing, particularly with IUhoops.

What I really want to know is how Indiana ended up signing Priller and April? My biggest 2016 fears will hopefully be answered in the next month.

Indiana should be a school that reloads rather than rebuilds, in my mind at least.

They were both quick offers and acceptances right? I figure we told them we had needs and they may fill them. Didn't promise much if any PT, just a spot on the team.

 

Like I said in the blackmail baseball thread, my whole argument besides the parts based on what I've seen in forming business contracts, is reductio ad absurdum.

 

We know it to be true the staff made 43 2016 offers. If we accept it to be true that these offers could be accepted by any of those 43 players at any time, it could lead to the absurd result of a recruiting class made up of 3-stars who were very excited to accept their first big offer. I believe the coaching staff to have a little more of a handle on things than that, therefore, some kind of conversation must be taking place discouraging acceptance until other conditions are met.

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Not only that, but you could end up with 4 3-star pg's in one class simply because they accepted first. When you offer 43 scholarships for 5 spots, how can there not be conditions on those offers?

They were both quick offers and acceptances right? I figure we told them we had needs and they may fill them. Didn't promise much if any PT, just a spot on the team.
 
Like I said in the blackmail baseball thread, my whole argument besides the parts based on what I've seen in forming business contracts, is reductio ad absurdum.
 
We know it to be true the staff made 43 2016 offers. If we accept it to be true that these offers could be accepted by any of those 43 players at any time, it could lead to the absurd result of a recruiting class made up of 3-stars who were very excited to accept their first big offer. I believe the coaching staff to have a little more of a handle on things than that, therefore, some kind of conversation must be taking place discouraging acceptance until other conditions are met.

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Last part of this thought.

 

That recruits may not like it, and that it's not the best strategy, could explain some of the troubles we've had in recruiting. It's not the greatest strategy, it's just the only strategy available when you're making 43 offers.

 

Duke made 12 offers. They don't have to have quite so frank of conversations and they recruit at such a high level that they have tons of leverage. The small number of contested offers they make, they could easily tell the kid "Look, it's between you and him, I can't hold the spot for you if he accepts first" because they have the leverage to do it, and they haven't made any offers to some midlevel kids while they were in 3rd grade.

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I popped the conversation out of the Durham thread. It really has nothing to do with him and was distracting. Plus, then people don't have to read my negativity.

Kind of hard when you bring nothing but negativity to the table. What are you a Purdue lover

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But if the meeting and getting a feel for each other's interests includes a discussion of the current offers made for the position and coaches expectations on that offer, then part of that discussion from both sides necessarily has to be about accepting the offer early.

So, like this, we have offers out on a few bigs and think we're in OK shape. But, the conversation with Maker and Davis leaves a lot of uncertainty with the coaches. So, they go out and talk to Tshiminga because he's good and uncommitted. They make an offer because I don't think this coaching staff is capable of talking to a player for more than 15 minutes without offers pouring out.

Making an offer isn't (or oh man, at this level it really shouldn't be) just sending a form letter. They would then talk about the terms of the offer, Tshiminga's obligations under the offer, the school's obligations, long-term implications (this is why you offer earlier than you want to accept sometimes. You may not have as good an opportunity to hash everything out later).

What do you think they tell Tshiminga about Maker and Davis? He isn't stupid, he realizes they are our first choices and spots are limited. So, if we're his best offer a rational actor would immediately accept in order to prevent Maker or Davis from taking his spot. But, even if we're not. The options for the conversation involve: 1) Not talking about the other offers at all. Highly unlikely. They aren't secrets and Tshiminga needs to know as much as he can to make this decision. 2) Talking about the other offers but communicating that it's an open field for whomever commits first. I guess it's possible, but it is the behavior of an organization who doesn't care which person they get, and recruiting does not encourage those behaviors. 3) Telling Tshiminga other offers are out there, talking about them, communicating the staff's expectations about the other offers and making it clear to him we are still pursuing other candidates and not ready to accept offers. Pretty much what I've seen in dozens of business transactions. 4) Telling Tshiminga he's lame and we totes want someone else but I guess here's an offer see-ya. No way.

For a real-life example. Eron Gordon, we already talked about how the staff did not expect him to accept his early offer, but what about right now? His best other offer is a Seton Hall team that will be happy if they finish the season at .500. He knows we have other offers out for his position and Indiana is his best shot at playing on a winning team, with a tourney run, and getting national attention. So, what has been preventing him from accepting his offer and forcing his way onto the higher level team?

Don't get me wrong, I think we offer too early, I think we offer too quickly, I think we offer too often. But, the reality of the offers is they have to have strings attached or schools lack any leverage and we could end up with a class of 5 centers because we had them all accept in 9th grade within the same month after making some stupid offers.

We made 43 offers for the class of 2016. You either have to believe the coaching staff was prepared to accept whichever 5 came in first, knew that 38 of those offers wouldn't pan out, or had some kind of conversation to prevent a wave of acceptances.

First off you have the meeting long before you extend an offer. When I say feel for each others interest, I mean getting to know how much the kids want to go to IU and how much you want them there. If you see they are highly interested in IU you can hold on to the offer, and look around because you know they're staying interested.
As for Eron Gordon, it's naive to think just because we're his best offer he automatically wants to come here. That being said if he does I think the coaching staffs accepts that and locks him in. If it came down to it and he did accept but Brown, or Alkins says they want to come here then You either stick with Eron or If you had to take back your offer, if Eron says he wants to come here and they say wait, then he's gone.
Sure if you're confident they won't run tell them no, I don't think that happens l, but as for leverage Colleges can always take back that offer, nothing's guaranteed to Players till the Pen hits the paper.

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