(2016) SF Mario Kegler to Miss State

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Its sour grapes. I agee with this post.

I don't get it. I mean, if that exact line was posted before he selected this conversation would be ok right? But now that he chose somewhere else we are only allowed to say positive things?

Why bother having the quote posted? Or the thread open? What posts are permitted as non-sour grapes?

[Josh 12,380]

I don't mind one and done's at all. I wish we had them on our roster every year. They're the most talented players in the game

[MikeRoberts 6,837]

It hasn't been that bad in this case but fans and people on this board seem to find faults in recruits and other coaches after we lose them that were never mentioned before when they were interested in IU. It's a free world and people can say what they want but when I see stuff like that it just seems like sour grapes.

What do I know, but I think he his somewhat of a taller JBJ and that bodes well. JBJ was a borderline second rounder so having another 3 inches might give him the upside the nba needs to draft Kegler this year. And, Keglers mindset is no different than JBJs either. He was very vocal about wanting to be a one and done, but he's ours so it's ok

[Brass Cannon 24,068]

It hasn't been that bad in this case but fans and people on this board seem to find faults in recruits and other coaches after we lose them that were never mentioned before when they were interested in IU. It's a free world and people can say what they want but when I see stuff like that it just seems like sour grapes.

What do I know, but I think he his somewhat of a taller JBJ and that bodes well. JBJ was a borderline second rounder so having another 3 inches might give him the upside the nba needs to draft Kegler this year. And, Keglers mindset is no different than JBJs either. He was very vocal about wanting to be a one and done, but he's ours so it's ok

 

So because hes ours it was ok to say we didn't think he was going to be able to go after 1.  But because Kegler spurned us its sour grapes?

 

Its an honest assessment. 

[biteoftheapple 4,115]

I don't mind one and done's at all. I wish we had them on our roster every year. They're the most talented players in the game

I hope you can see that one and dones are program busters, unless it can be sustained yearly.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

It hasn't been that bad in this case but fans and people on this board seem to find faults in recruits and other coaches after we lose them that were never mentioned before when they were interested in IU. It's a free world and people can say what they want but when I see stuff like that it just seems like sour grapes.

What do I know, but I think he his somewhat of a taller JBJ and that bodes well. JBJ was a borderline second rounder so having another 3 inches might give him the upside the nba needs to draft Kegler this year. And, Keglers mindset is no different than JBJs either. He was very vocal about wanting to be a one and done, but he's ours so it's ok

Had this quote come up during recruitment, "Well, Howland is telling me the I can be there one year" or something, I would have said the same thing. I did for JBJ too when he made that stupid comment. 

 

There are two ways to be a one-and-done, ooze with so much raw potential and natural physical gifts that teams will take a chance on you (The Vonleh Model) or have so much talent teams believe you're ready to play against like... adults. Kegler has great physical gifts but nothing just so freakish you can't pass it up. And what I've seen him play is very good, but not so fundamentally dominant he could do it against Kobe. It's what happened to JBJ. Playing against other high schoolers is just a different ball game than playing against Kentucky or Michigan State, much less playing against the Warriors or Blazers. I can think of very very few one-and-dones who didn't have all the pieces in place when they started college. The first year there isn't the time to refine your skills in practice or work-out the way you need to to move from a second rounder to a lottery pick. Any coach telling a kid ranked outside the top 20 they can make them into a one-and-done is probably lying.

 

Again, I think he's a great player, I think he's the kind of player who is perfect for what Howland needs to do right now, build a team of 2 and 3 year guys so he can use this foundation next year and the following year to make some noise in the tourney in 2018 or 2019 with a couple more great recruiting classes. I think he would have been a great fit at IU and if I ever hear his name again, I'll briefly wonder what he would have added to the team.

 

I certainly don't begrudge a kid for picking his local school, choosing to play for a great coach, or wanting to be part of building a serious program. There are tons of great reasons for Kegler to have made his decision and have it absolutely be the right one for him. One of those reasons is not that Howland can make him a one-and-done. 

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

I hope you can see that one and dones are program busters, unless it can be sustained yearly.

I think one-and-dones can be valuable pieces if coaches understand what they're getting and can plan for their leaving. Vonleh would have been a good piece (on a bad team) if we still had someone to take his place afterwards. It lets you recruit a starting caliber player and it lets you develop whomever is next in line for a year.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

It hasn't been that bad in this case but fans and people on this board seem to find faults in recruits and other coaches after we lose them that were never mentioned before when they were interested in IU. It's a free world and people can say what they want but when I see stuff like that it just seems like sour grapes.

What do I know, but I think he his somewhat of a taller JBJ and that bodes well. JBJ was a borderline second rounder so having another 3 inches might give him the upside the nba needs to draft Kegler this year. And, Keglers mindset is no different than JBJs either. He was very vocal about wanting to be a one and done, but he's ours so it's ok

I understand your point, but literally no one here was talking about Kegler as a one and done, and no one since his commitment to MSU has said he wasn't good enough to play here. The news that Howland told him he could be a one and done came after the commitment, and it's news that, had we heard prior, we would have laughed at regardless. 

 

Maybe Howland believes in his development abilities that much, but will Kegler be a Westbrook or a Shabazz? I don't know. 

[Josh 12,380]

I hope you can see that one and dones are program busters, unless it can be sustained yearly.

Duke had a couple last year and they were champions. Kentucky has a full roster of them every year and they go to the final four every year.

Imo a program needs them to consistently compete for titles.

[Brass Cannon 24,068]

Duke had a couple last year and they were champions. Kentucky has a full roster of them every year and they go to the final four every year.

Imo a program needs them to consistently compete for titles.

Even recently Kentucky has always relied on a few uber talented Sophmores.  You do need them, but they are risky and you have to have the recruiting chops to replace them the next year or be developing a guy to replace him. 

 

You do need guys who can be an x factor more than you need 1 and dones.  The problem is that guys who are an x factor typically leave for the NBA whether they are 1 and dones or players who develop.  

[BtownBanner6 1,298]

Had this quote come up during recruitment, "Well, Howland is telling me the I can be there one year" or something, I would have said the same thing. I did for JBJ too when he made that stupid comment.

There are two ways to be a one-and-done, ooze with so much raw potential and natural physical gifts that teams will take a chance on you (The Vonleh Model) or have so much talent teams believe you're ready to play against like... adults. Kegler has great physical gifts but nothing just so freakish you can't pass it up. And what I've seen him play is very good, but not so fundamentally dominant he could do it against Kobe. It's what happened to JBJ. Playing against other high schoolers is just a different ball game than playing against Kentucky or Michigan State, much less playing against the Warriors or Blazers. I can think of very very few one-and-dones who didn't have all the pieces in place when they started college. The first year there isn't the time to refine your skills in practice or work-out the way you need to to move from a second rounder to a lottery pick. Any coach telling a kid ranked outside the top 20 they can make them into a one-and-done is probably lying.

Again, I think he's a great player, I think he's the kind of player who is perfect for what Howland needs to do right now, build a team of 2 and 3 year guys so he can use this foundation next year and the following year to make some noise in the tourney in 2018 or 2019 with a couple more great recruiting classes. I think he would have been a great fit at IU and if I ever hear his name again, I'll briefly wonder what he would have added to the team.

I certainly don't begrudge a kid for picking his local school, choosing to play for a great coach, or wanting to be part of building a serious program. There are tons of great reasons for Kegler to have made his decision and have it absolutely be the right one for him. One of those reasons is not that Howland can make him a one-and-done.

Eh, I bet he could do it against Kobe now.

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,831]

The reason some kids leave early, even though not a lottery pick, is twofold.

One can be academic problems.

The other more prevalent reason I have read about is "payouts" of contract. I have read that upon leaving a school players receive their agreed upon payments legally. If they live up to their end of the bargain then it's payday when leaving early even if not drafted or not drafted highly.

[BtownBanner6 1,298]

The reason some kids leave early, even though not a lottery pick, is twofold.

One can be academic problems.

The other more prevalent reason I have read about is "payouts" of contract. I have read that upon leaving a school players receive their agreed upon payments legally. If they live up to their end of the bargain then it's payday when leaving early even if not drafted or not drafted highly.

Are you talking scholarship money?

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

The reason some kids leave early, even though not a lottery pick, is twofold.

One can be academic problems.

The other more prevalent reason I have read about is "payouts" of contract. I have read that upon leaving a school players receive their agreed upon payments legally. If they live up to their end of the bargain then it's payday when leaving early even if not drafted or not drafted highly.

Read about where?

 

On its face, there is no reason to think this would successfully skirt the NCAA's rules. An agreement to pay someone money for performing a job is paying them for their performance regardless of if you pay them before or after. You might as well just pay them beforehand if you're relying on no one ever finding out anyway. And who benefits from a one-and-done player who isn't a lottery pick leaving early? Wouldn't the boosters prefer to have him play his sophomore year when he should be better? Why not just pay recruits to come to your school in the first place?

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,831]

Shoe companies and associated people. It's orchestrated gambling. Owning a player's rights early. Some are successful, some aren't. Sliding scale payouts depending on success level.

[ElectricBoogaloo 4,295]

I think Kegler would have been a great addition to soften the (probable) loss of Troy after this season. He will be a great college player and I can't fault him for choosing the in state school. Wish him the best of luck.

[Josh 12,380]

For the record, Davis wound up +500 followers today.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

For the record, Davis wound up +500 followers today.

That's some quality "told you so" follow up.

[Dalton26 16,891]

That's some quality "told you so" follow up.

Kinda sad lol

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Kinda sad lol

Psh. Like I'm not digging this thread up for the 2017 draft.