AREAS OF COACHING

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,276]

We must have kids begging to come here.

yes we should. If not, new coach time, eh?

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

yes we should. If not, new coach time, eh?

Yep firing the coach is always the answer. It's the only possible solution. Coaches are god after all. They single handedly determine the success of programs.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,276]

Yep firing the coach is always the answer. It's the only possible solution. Coaches are god after all. They single handedly determine the success of programs.

yes, they have the LARGEST role of a program. They are the FACE of the program. If recruits are passing on IU for Georgia, UNLV, Wyoming, etc. Something is amiss and it starts with Coach.

[8bucks 6,429]

Yep firing the coach is always the answer. It's the only possible solution. Coaches are god after all. They single handedly determine the success of programs.

Maybe we are spending too much time on these side items. What are your expectations for the basketball program at IU? It seems from some of your posts that we should not expect to be a top 3 program even in the BT but I may have read that wrong.

[hoosierinIll 335]

Yep firing the coach is always the answer. It's the only possible solution. Coaches are god after all. They single handedly determine the success of programs.

College bball is unlike pro and HS bball, SSQ, you know that. The man literally has control (and he is very much a micro manager) over everything except making the shots,etc. Despite what others might say here, I don't think he's that bad of an in game coach, but it's the other aspects of the job (like roster management & class balance) that he has underperformed in. I'm ticked that we're essentially wasting this year with an awesome backcourt because we don't have capable size. Yes, there's a lot of variables and a college bball program is fluid, but if Crean doesn't have control over the element, he has key influence over nearly every other element in the program.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

yes, they have the LARGEST role of a program. They are the FACE of the program. If recruits are passing on IU for Georgia, UNLV, Wyoming, etc. Something is amiss and it starts with Coach.

I don't know how you know this. You can suspect... But you don't truly know what was best for each of these kids. Or what got them to their school. Maybe Georgia was a better fit? Maybe the NLI bonus was greater there than IU.

Yes, the coach has his hand on everything and is the largest influence. But impatient fans aren't exactly the most reliable sources of who is and isn't fit to be a college coach. If only we could all be so astute.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

Some insight from those with a working knowledge. Yes this is from a press release... But these things are said off the record as well. Quite a contrast to our own experts. Just for your consideration:

[attachment=1714:ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1424572601.372981.jpg][attachment=1715:ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1424572610.307572.jpg][attachment=1716:ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1424572618.263039.jpg]

[Feathery 4,005]

It's not just me thinking he's a high caliber coach. It's most of the major college basketball coaches in America. This is what fascinates me. Fans think he is an absolute idiot when it comes to basketball. We have fans looking up videos about how to teach defense as if Crean needs some kind of remediation. It blows my mind. The best coaches in the country admire the guy, admit how strong/structured his program is, know he can coach, know he develops skill, the list just goes on. I guess it isn't good enough. So many on here get a hard on thinking about how they played the game at a higher level than Crean which validates their opinions over his.

I'm not one to think he is a garbage coach. I think he is what he is at this point of his career and I don't think he is good enough to be the long term answer at IU. My reasons are multiple and I don't want to hijack this thread. As far as defense is concerned, Crean has NEVER had an elite defense any year he has been a HC. You can look at my list and easily figure out why I would want to go in a different direction. The things I value in a coach Crean struggles with. I think that is the crux of the pro Crean and anti Crean crowds.

[Five Prime 1,089]

Some insight from those with a working knowledge. Yes this is from a press release... But these things are said off the record as well. Quite a contrast to our own experts. Just for your consideration:

ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1424572601.372981.jpg ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1424572610.307572.jpg ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1424572618.263039.jpg

These are politically correct statements written by future opposing coaches and talking heads...from 2008. Blurbs like these are written about every high profile coaching change. Someone could probably find similar musings about the Kelvin Sampson hire.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

I'm not one to think he is a garbage coach. I think he is what he is at this point of his career and I don't think he is good enough to be the long term answer at IU. My reasons are multiple and I don't want to hijack this thread. As far as defense is concerned, Crean has NEVER had an elite defense any year he has been a HC. You can look at my list and easily figure out why I would want to go in a different direction. The things I value in a coach Crean struggles with. I think that is the crux of the pro Crean and anti Crean crowds.

Agreed. It's a philosophical stalemate between our coach and our fans of a different golden era.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

These are politically correct statements written by future opposing coaches and talking heads...from 2008. Blurbs like these are written about every high profile coaching change. Someone could probably find similar musings about the Kelvin Sampson hire.

I noted that; but these things are said off the record. He has a seat at the table. I mean SC and the boys are great on here and all, but I'll take Larry Brown's opinion on the guy instead.

[Feathery 4,005]

Some insight from those with a working knowledge. Yes this is from a press release... But these things are said off the record as well. Quite a contrast to our own experts. Just for your consideration:

ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1424572601.372981.jpg ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1424572610.307572.jpg ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1424572618.263039.jpg

You realize those are quotes from his personal friends and from before he coached at IU? Of course they are going to be positive reviews. Everyone, including myself expected him to achieve more than he had at Marquette bc IU is a better job with key advantages over his old job. Instead he has turned IU into Marquette.
(Feel free to send me a pm and we can have this debate, so we don't derail the thread anymore than we have.)

[Feathery 4,005]

Agreed. It's a philosophical stalemate between our coach and our fans of a different golden era.

I'm 33 years old. I don't remember the 87 title. I do remember the early 90s great teams and the subsequence decline. So it's not a stalemate between the golden era and the younger fans. It's a stalemate between those who want to bring IU back to the top and those who have lowered expectations and want to slick with Crean bc of fear of making a change.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

You realize those are quotes from his personal friends and from before he coached at IU? Of course they are going to be positive reviews. Everyone, including myself expected him to achieve more than he had at Marquette bc IU is a better job with key advantages over his old job. Instead he has turned IU into Marquette.
(Feel free to send me a pm and we can have this debate, so we don't derail the thread anymore than we have.)

There is no debate... In Crean's 4 years at IU with a real team, he has had two S16's, a B1G title, and has a team in position to compete for another run in the tourney. One down year in the middle. I don't see how this indicates Crean sucks. Anyone besides UK is going to slip losing the people we lost. This isn't an excuse. It's a pure fact. Couple people leaving with a few guys hijacking the program or not developing, and this is what you get. It's why he gets millions; this isn't easy...

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

I'm 33 years old. I don't remember the 87 title. I do remember the early 90s great teams and the subsequence decline. So it's not a stalemate between the golden era and the younger fans. It's a stalemate between those who want to bring IU back to the top and those who have lowered expectations and want to slick with Crean bc of fear of making a change.

This is bigger than you, dude.

[HoosierAloha 30,067]

Awesome discussion on Crean but please take it to another thread.  This thread has absolutely nothing to do with Crean.  Thanks, trying to keep it clean so it's easier to process the data.

[Feathery 4,005]

This is bigger than you, dude.

Didn't say it was about me "dude". I was pointing out your fallacy in saying its a stalemate between the golden era fans and the coach. I know many many people who are in their 20s and teens who want Cream gone. I know many golden age era fans who want Crean gone. Did you hear the boos after the Purdue game? Do you see the empty student seats? Do you see the empty seats outside the student section? It might be a sellout but their aren't bodies in those seats. Crean is losing this battle. It's not bc he is a terrible coach. He is just not living up to his it's indiana expectations. Last year was bad and this season isn't anything to write home about. He doesn't get a bye for year 3 bc he actually declined in conference that season.

So he has had 2 good years and both had Cody Zeller. in terms of expectations the only year he exceeded them were Zellers freshman season. The other years he hasn't met them. I'll give him credit for winning the Big Ten the following year, but he bombed out of the BTT, and we struggled vs Temple before getting beat too early by Cuse (not meeting expectations). Last year isn't a blip, go look at his Marquette record. He had Wade and other than that it was similar to what we see here outside the Zeller years.

[Feathery 4,005]

Awesome discussion on Crean but please take it to another thread. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with Crean. Thanks, trying to keep it clean so it's easier to process the data.

Sorry I was posting that post that followed this statement and didn't see it.

[Five Prime 1,089]

I noted that; but these things are said off the record. He has a seat at the table. I mean SC and the boys are great on here and all, but I'll take Larry Brown's opinion on the guy instead.

Opinions by fans are largely formed by the product they see on the floor. Whatever ego stroking goes on behind closed doors and "off the record" does not matter to me.

The first two years aside, Crean-coached IU teams average between 6th and 7th in the Big ten standings. Crean-led IU teams average less than one NCAA tournament win per year. Our best finish in the Big ten tournament is what, a semifinal loss?

Larry Brown can say whatever he wants about Crean. Maybe Crean has a master plan and he's building towards greatness here at IU. Maybe I'm too slow to see it. I want more consistency from our program. It seems we're always chasing our tail under Crean.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,276]

Opinions by fans are largely formed by the product they see on the floor. Whatever ego stroking goes on behind closed doors and "off the record" does not matter to me.

The first two years aside, Crean-coached IU teams average between 6th and 7th in the Big ten standings. Crean-led IU teams average less than one NCAA tournament win per year. Our best finish in the Big ten tournament is what, a semifinal loss?

Larry Brown can say whatever he wants about Crean. Maybe Crean has a master plan and he's building towards greatness here at IU. Maybe I'm too slow to see it. I want more consistency from our program. It seems we're always chasing our tail under Crean.

another guy who sees it. Bravo. The numbers are growing.