College Bball Thread

[schoosier 3,444]

6 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Why would a kid choose to leave if they didn’t think they could get on another team?  

This is just another case of wanting to hold young people to some mythical standard that doesn’t exist in the real world. 

Either make coaches set a year after they leave a school or let players transfer without sitting.  They both made choices that they regret. I don’t see why Holtmann gets to bail on Butler for a better opportunity and it’s not a problem. But a kid who realizes he made a mistake has to be punished for it. 

Agree. We’re holding these athletes to higher standards than the coaches who recruited them. This isn’t a big surprise considering who made these rules to begin with.

[Str8Hoosiers 2,965]

18 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

You are literally arguing that we shouldn’t change what the kids contract says because the kids contract says it. That’s a great excuse to never change anything. 

And no this isn’t the same because coaches get to negotiate their contract  these kids don’t get to negotiate this bs clause out of their contract  

No actually I am saying that we shouldn't change this contract because it is a HORRIBLE idea (in my opinion). It is bad for the the game of college basketball, it is bad for the coaches, it is bad for the fans, it is bad for the universities... the ONLY thing/people that would benefit from making a change like this is the student athlete. And I don't believe their gain offsets all the rest of the loss to everybody else.

Agreed they are not the same, you are trying to say the punishment for a coach should be the same as it is for a player (have to sit a season) but now you are agreeing that they aren't the same and they get to negotiate their contract. If a school wanted to put a clause in a coaches contract that if they left on their own free will they had to sit a season before coaching again then i would say that coach made his decision when signing the contract and sorry about his luck as well, he has to live with those consequences if he decides to break the contract later (I realize no coach would sign a contract with this stipulation at this time, but if it became a sweeping idea by universities then coaches would do it.)

If you don't want a contract broken you put in stipulations that make it bad to break it.... for Student Athletes it is sitting a year, for coaches it is money, for Universities it is Buy-Outs (money). Each entity that enters into a contract does so with all the details and knows what is expected and what the repercussions are for not living up to the contract.

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

25 minutes ago, Str8Hoosiers said:

No actually I am saying that we shouldn't change this contract because it is a HORRIBLE idea (in my opinion). It is bad for the the game of college basketball, it is bad for the coaches, it is bad for the fans, it is bad for the universities... the ONLY thing/people that would benefit from making a change like this is the student athlete. And I don't believe their gain offsets all the rest of the loss to everybody else.

Agreed they are not the same, you are trying to say the punishment for a coach should be the same as it is for a player (have to sit a season) but now you are agreeing that they aren't the same and they get to negotiate their contract. If a school wanted to put a clause in a coaches contract that if they left on their own free will they had to sit a season before coaching again then i would say that coach made his decision when signing the contract and sorry about his luck as well, he has to live with those consequences if he decides to break the contract later (I realize no coach would sign a contract with this stipulation at this time, but if it became a sweeping idea by universities then coaches would do it.)

If you don't want a contract broken you put in stipulations that make it bad to break it.... for Student Athletes it is sitting a year, for coaches it is money, for Universities it is Buy-Outs (money). Each entity that enters into a contract does so with all the details and knows what is expected and what the repercussions are for not living up to the contract.

The student athletes dont deserve to be treated fairly because other people would be midly inconvenienced. Wtf is that

[Str8Hoosiers 2,965]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

The student athletes dont deserve to be treated fairly because other people would be midly inconvenienced. Wtf is that

It is your opinion that they are not being treated fairly. To me there are being treated fairly (Actually better than fairly). Just because there are consequences for a choice doesn't mean it is unfair. That is my entire point, all choices have consequences, sometimes you know them ahead of time sometimes you don't but either way you have to live with them. Why shouldn't they? Why should they get a free pass to do whatever they want and avoid any repercussions?

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

The student athletes dont deserve to be treated fairly because other people would be midly inconvenienced. Wtf is that

The student athlete is only mildly inconvenienced now.

-Leave a situation that you didn't like, but that still paid for a year or two of your college.

-Join a situation that you believe will be better (your 1st choice was believed to be an awesome one, so who knows) that will continue to pay for your classes.

-Get another year of free college, that might even set you up to be a graduate transfer in year 5.

-Get the chance to work on some of your player shortcomings so by the time your final year rolls around, you are a lot better of a player.

-Get an extra year to mature as a person, into an adult.(I believe this lack of maturity, self-awareness, and lack of desire to work to get better, is the catalyst for a lot of transfers)

Their lives are not destroyed because they have to sit a year, while practicing with the team, while taking classes, while getting closer to their degree, while having the chance to get a lot better, and while having all the other tangible and intangible benefits of playing college basketball.

 

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

31 minutes ago, HoosierHoops1 said:

The student athlete is only mildly inconvenienced now.

-Leave a situation that you didn't like, but that still paid for a year or two of your college.

-Join a situation that you believe will be better (your 1st choice was believed to be an awesome one, so who knows) that will continue to pay for your classes.

-Get another year of free college, that might even set you up to be a graduate transfer in year 5.

-Get the chance to work on some of your player shortcomings so by the time your final year rolls around, you are a lot better of a player.

-Get an extra year to mature as a person, into an adult.(I believe this lack of maturity, self-awareness, and lack of desire to work to get better, is the catalyst for a lot of transfers)

Their lives are not destroyed because they have to sit a year, while practicing with the team, while taking classes, while getting closer to their degree, while having the chance to get a lot better, and while having all the other tangible and intangible benefits of playing college basketball.

 

Never said their lives were destroyed. Said they weren’t being treated fairly. Big and significant difference  

 

 

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

My boss always got the good TDYs in the military. I told him it wasn't fair. He told me to STFU and make rank so when I was in charge I could decide which ones I went on. I signed a contract and had to live with it. A year isn't poop in the grand scheme of things.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

10 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

My boss always got the good TDYs in the military. I told him it wasn't fair. He told me to STFU and make rank so when I was in charge I could decide which ones I went on. I signed a contract and had to live with it. A year isn't poop in the grand scheme of things.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

Except you got to negotiate that contract.  Very different circumstances. 

Btw I would say it’s pretty silly to compare playing college basketball and being in the military  

[Str8Hoosiers 2,965]

20 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Except you got to negotiate that contract.  Very different circumstances. 

Btw I would say it’s pretty silly to compare playing college basketball and being in the military  

I will admit I was never in the military and I have no idea, but I find it very surprising that in the military you get to negotiate a contract.... I would have assumed you sign on and they tell you what to do... but as I said I could be VERY wrong here.

How is it silly? Both are things that a young person has a choice on. Both are things that open opportunities. Both are things that have rules in place and consequences if you break those rules.

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

2 minutes ago, Str8Hoosiers said:

I will admit I was never in the military and I have no idea, but I find it very surprising that in the military you get to negotiate a contract.... I would have assumed you sign on and they tell you what to do... but as I said I could be VERY wrong here.

How is it silly? Both are things that a young person has a choice on. Both are things that open opportunities. Both are things that have rules in place and consequences if you break those rules.

One involves risking getting killed And people doing what they are told is important in order to keep the he number of people dying to a minimum. 

Fairness takes a back seat to people not being killed  not to people being mildly inconvenienced  

Where as in college athletics if people start getting killed they start firing people. 

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,100]

I will admit I was never in the military and I have no idea, but I find it very surprising that in the military you get to negotiate a contract.... I would have assumed you sign on and they tell you what to do... but as I said I could be VERY wrong here.
How is it silly? Both are things that a young person has a choice on. Both are things that open opportunities. Both are things that have rules in place and consequences if you break those rules.

You can choose your MOS(job) and where you want to be stationed. With the latter, you give them a list of places you want to be stationed. They will try to honor that, but if their MOS is needed somewhere else. You can't negotiate TDY, pay or other items.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

Except you got to negotiate that contract.  Very different circumstances. 

Btw I would say it’s pretty silly to compare playing college basketball and being in the military  

What's silly is when athletes "go to war" etc. A month in the gym isn't a minute on the battlefield.

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

2 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Never said their lives were destroyed. Said they weren’t being treated fairly. Big and significant difference  

 

 

I didn't say you said that. I quoted you, but some of my comments were about the concept in general.

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,100]

What's silly is when athletes "go to war" etc. A month in the gym isn't a minute on the battlefield.

I've always hated those terms

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[VeevlandBrowns 134]

M in trouble around shoe resale by players?

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24344541/north-carolina-tar-heels-warn-others-wake-ncaa-violations-shoe-resales

UNC just suspended 13 football players for doing this.

Article does not clarify which sport is potentially impacted.

Seeing some talk around the Internet that it may involve "double digit" number of M athletes between both football and basketball. No names yet, obviously. 

Interestingly, Marquette has already released a statement saying that no "current players" have sold shoes and thus they feel safe in declaring they're in the clear. Notice what that doesn't say..."past players."

Edited August 12, 2018 by VeevlandBrowns

[Str8Hoosiers 2,965]

On 8/11/2018 at 4:15 PM, iufaninillinois said:

You can choose your MOS(job) and where you want to be stationed. With the latter, you give them a list of places you want to be stationed. They will try to honor that, but if their MOS is needed somewhere else. You can't negotiate TDY, pay or other items.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

So if you choose your job and location then decide you don't like it can you choose to go elsewhere anytime you want? 

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

8 minutes ago, Str8Hoosiers said:

So if you choose your job and location then decide you don't like it can you choose to go elsewhere anytime you want? 

Choosing their job isn’t really applicable. Look at Fitz he signed up to be a starter. And then his coach redesigned the offense in a way Fitz wouldn’t fit. 

And once again the concept of not letting kids transfer between schools to play a game is so ridiculous that the only thing supporters can liken it to is joining the military. Big difference between shooting guns and 3 pointers

the answer to preventing Free Agency is not keep punishing the kids but restrict the programs. 

If a team has 10-12 scholarship athletes at the end season defined as scholarships-early NBA- graduation+signed LOI they can only take 1 transfer. 

If a team has 8-9 they can take 2

if a team has 6-7 they can take 3

If they have 5 or fewer they can take up to 5

[reconmkd 4,169]

1 hour ago, Str8Hoosiers said:

So if you choose your job and location then decide you don't like it can you choose to go elsewhere anytime you want? 

Uh no, you have to wait until you are PCS'd,

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,100]

So if you choose your job and location then decide you don't like it can you choose to go elsewhere anytime you want? 

No. You are there until they transfer. The Army does have something called a swap. If they transfer you somewhere you really don't want to go, you can try to find someone going to where you want to go who would prefer going where they are transfering you. I saw that all the time in the Army times.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Str8Hoosiers 2,965]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

Choosing their job isn’t really applicable. Look at Fitz he signed up to be a starter. And then his coach redesigned the offense in a way Fitz wouldn’t fit. 

And once again the concept of not letting kids transfer between schools to play a game is so ridiculous that the only thing supporters can liken it to is joining the military. Big difference between shooting guns and 3 pointers

the answer to preventing Free Agency is not keep punishing the kids but restrict the programs. 

If a team has 10-12 scholarship athletes at the end season defined as scholarships-early NBA- graduation+signed LOI they can only take 1 transfer. 

If a team has 8-9 they can take 2

if a team has 6-7 they can take 3

If they have 5 or fewer they can take up to 5

That is a rare case,  but sometimes things just don't go how you hoped... doesn't give you a free pass. 

I didn't bring up the military but I don't see how the comparison is so silly as you call it.  I can bring other examples but it won't help,  you have decided. What about an NFL player choosing to not go to training camp... cost him a million dollars... his choice but he pays the consequences. Nobody is saying the student athlete doesn't have a choice,  and as pointed out earlier they aren't even PUNISHED... but they do have consequences,  which could be seen as more benefits of sitting a year. 

So you want the teams to have restrictions? How is it their fault if all the time and effort they put in recruiting a kid and he decides he wants to leave?