College Bball Thread

[Stuhoo 80,429]

1 hour ago, Dave from Dayton said:

I finally figured it out.  Indiana University men's basketball players years ago voted to unionize.  They sometimes go on strike during games.  They went on strike back when our head coach was making impermissible calls and contact and Dan D became acting HC.  They went on strike by not playing defense for years with Crean.  Need I explain the Archie years?  They went on strike this season at Auburn....  /snark

Just like Dartmouth: A first in college sports: Dartmouth men's basketball votes to unionize : NPR

Fascinating stuff:

• If paid as part of the Service Employees Union, can they now go on strike?
• With employee status and union membership, how will they define lack of performance; can they now be terminated for lack of performance? Will it be:
  • failure to show up and perform contractually mandated performance tasks, or
  • could they be terminated for being bad at the job, i.e., playing lousy? 
• Since this is the Ivy league and there are no athletic scholarships, will these paid school employees' scholarship grants be re-visited; will they now be charged full tuition?
  • Ivy League athletes often get sizeable merit grants that are largely, though not outwardly based on their athletic merits, not their academics.

[JF87 1,435]

Nice win for Nevada at Boise State last night.  Nevada is now 38th in Kenpom.  

[str8baller 5,207]

46 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Service Employees Union,

I’ll tread lightly here because I respect and appreciate the no politics rule, but that’s a political/legal activist organization as much as it is a group interested in legitimately unionizing college sports.  
 

I’m pro NIL. I don’t even mind paying the players. But the judiciary siding with the players in these huge cases is apparently going to bring out the usual suspects, some just looking for fees or notoriety. That may ultimately work in their favor but I hour they are getting good non-litigation advice as well. They could easily back themselves into a low paid minor league system, as you allude to. 

[Stuhoo 80,429]

16 minutes ago, str8baller said:

I’ll tread lightly here because I respect and appreciate the no politics rule, but that’s a political/legal activist organization as much as it is a group interested in legitimately unionizing college sports.  
 

I’m pro NIL. I don’t even mind paying the players. But the judiciary siding with the players in these huge cases is apparently going to bring out the usual suspects, some just looking for fees or notoriety. That may ultimately work in their favor but I hour they are getting good non-litigation advice as well. They could easily back themselves into a low paid minor league system, as you slide to. 

It is fascinating that Dartmouth was the team that went this route. That is a team that has averaged about 1,000 attendance per home game and are 6-21 this season (2-12 in Ivy). Since students get free tickets I'm guessing that total revenue for the men's basketball program is maybe $150,000 and expenses are far, far greater. Maybe the players only want $20 an hour, but the union also normally bargains for things like paid leave, health benefits, and retirement benefit accrual.

So unlike a successful P5 program, these players run a serious risk of Dartmouth responding with 'no more men's basketball - too expensive and too much trouble.' My kid is considering Boston University and Northeastern for undergrad; each university has 20,000 undergrads and a football stadium but no football anymore- too expensive and too much trouble with no commensurate revenue.

And if Dartmouth dumps men's basketball? These players who aren't good enough to play at many D1 schools but are invested in their Dartmouth education have arguably no good options. 

[str8baller 5,207]

@Stuhoo 

 

You nailed it. My first thought when I saw that article was all these low level “news outlets “ that are really just organized online blogging outfits that had a wave of unionization. Some of those then only lasted months before mass layoffs or the whole place closed down. For 90+% of athletes the scholarship or associated financial aid is a good deal. Now if Kentucky basketball or Texas football wants to unionize we’re having a different conversation. 

[Stuhoo 80,429]

1 minute ago, str8baller said:

@Stuhoo 

 

You nailed it. My first thought when I saw that article was all these low level “news outlets “ that are really just organized online blogging outfits that had a wave of unionization. Some of those then only lasted months before mass layoffs or the whole place closed down. For 90+% of athletes the scholarship or associated financial aid is a good deal. Now if Kentucky basketball or Texas football wants to unionize we’re having a different conversation. 

Let's play 'on the other hand'.

When 13 out of 15 Dartmouth students decide to do this, you can bet your life that they have done extensive research, consulted attorneys, and well-understand the pros and cons of their decision. Doesn't mean they are guaranteed to be right; just that they have weighed the potential consequences.

[Dave from Dayton 3,147]

7 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Let's play 'on the other hand'.

When 13 out of 15 Dartmouth students decide to do this, you can bet your life that they have done extensive research, consulted attorneys, and well-understand the pros and cons of their decision. Doesn't mean they are guaranteed to be right; just that they have weighed the potential consequences.

Lots of people may tend to oversimplify all of the related issues to unionization.  Categorization of them vs. us is not the right way to look at this.  I am not saying anyone on this site is doing that.

It does come down to how we see an organization controlling and not respecting the workers vs. large amounts of dollars being centralized in order to do large investments and 'great' works and the resultant will to power (ie controlling others).  

What is really important is to listen with respect to what the others are saying.  I am not saying to agree.  Just try to understand their perspective.  Why are they saying and doing something differently?  What is the real reason?  It may not even be what they are saying.  They just may be...hurting, frustrated or struggling with coping.  

The answer usually is to reach out and truly partner.  We are in this together.  

[Stuhoo 80,429]

2 minutes ago, Dave from Dayton said:

Lots of people may tend to oversimplify all of the related issues to unionization.  Categorization of them vs. us is not the right way to look at this.  I am not saying anyone on this site is doing that.

It does come down to how we see an organization controlling and not respecting the workers vs. large amounts of dollars being centralized in order to do large investments and 'great' works and the resultant will to power (ie controlling others).  

What is really important is to listen with respect to what the others are saying.  I am not saying to agree.  Just try to understand their perspective.  Why are they saying and doing something differently?  What is the real reason?  It may not even be what they are saying.  They just may be...hurting, frustrated or struggling with coping.  

The answer usually is to reach out and truly partner.  We are in this together.  

Or,

1. The players want money, and
2. Think that being the first to take on an employment system, with accompanying national publicity, will look really impressive on their Ivy League law school applications.

[Dave from Dayton 3,147]

3 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Or,

1. The players want money, and
2. Think that being the first to take on an employment system, with accompanying national publicity, will look really impressive on their Ivy League law school applications.

Yeah, that could be it, too.

When I learned what attorneys really are involved with...I wondered why in the heck would anyone really want to do that for a living or calling.  Handling other people's legal problems...they have to be kidding me.

But, then again, these are youngish people playing basketball and growing up.  My father-in-law would always say..."They are young.  What do they know?"  He was joking...and not joking. 

[Demo 19,783]

This feels correct

[SamIam 646]

6 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

Let's play 'on the other hand'.

When 13 out of 15 Dartmouth students decide to do this, you can bet your life that they have done extensive research, consulted attorneys, and well-understand the pros and cons of their decision. Doesn't mean they are guaranteed to be right; just that they have weighed the potential consequences.

The Dartmouth decision will likely get overturned, but it doesn't matter. Legally, the writing is on the wall and all college athletes will be employees soon unless Congress is able to pass something. 

[Uspshoosier 45,571]

UCF up 2 over Houston with 16 min to go.   Houston on a run to get it down to 7.    

[Uspshoosier 45,571]

Highly recommend watching The Journeys episode on Malik Hall.  Going to get dusty ant where ever you watching it.   Never know what a kid is going through while playing.   

[Uspshoosier 45,571]

S Indiana up 3 at half over Tenn St  in the first round of the OVC tourney 

[Uspshoosier 45,571]

Marquette/UConn and Iowa St/BYU coming up at 9.  

[Uspshoosier 45,571]

South Carolina not done yet.   Only down 6 with 2 min to go 

[LIHoosier 26,094]

NW with 16 sec left to tie or win the game. Let's see if Boo can get away with the Buie Bump again

[str8baller 5,207]

 man NW got a good look there. Just didn’t go down

[str8baller 5,207]

23 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Marquette/UConn and Iowa St/BYU coming up at 9.  

Hard to even watch IU with Marquette/Uconn on. 

[Uspshoosier 45,571]

FAU down 5 at North Texas with 16 min to go