Can Indiana be a consistent winner under Coach Crean?

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Lol. You guys are actually still arguing about what "on top" means and whether or not #1 means anything.


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[JSHoosier 19,706]

My point is that IU has been a wannabe since after the 2002 Finals appearance. This isn't just a Crean issue. When you lose one of the top three all time winningest coaches who is in the argument for top five coaches to ever coach college basketball, things are going to change in a big way. IU's transition was not smooth and had trouble finding the right coach to fill the role. Crean isn't ever going to be a Hall of Fame coach, but with a little more time, he can get us back into the national discussion. Since the 2002 season, we've gone to the tournament six times, twice with Crean. We hadn't gotten back to the Sweet Sixteen until 2012 and 2013 with Crean, and hadn't won the B1G until 2013. This span also included a losing season and a season where we went 15-14. Then tack on the NCAA violations and you're looking at a program that has struggled to win, has had 4 head coaches in 8 years, and was just wrecked by violations. I don't think Crean will get us back to "the top" in the way Hoosier fans will want, but I believe he has this program headed the right direction. Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

How much time does he need?  He's been a head coach for 15 years and he's never done anything consistently.  He's never made the tournament more than 4 years in a row and in that span his teams never finished higher than tied for 4th in the conference.  Hell, some people say Cal isn't much of a coach but he saw more success than Tom Crean before he ever got the UK gig.

 

If you don't think he can get us to the top, why is he here?  That's exactly what he's paid to do.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

[quote name="JSHoosier" post="71938" timestamp="1403801552"]How much time does he need? He's been a head coach for 15 years and he's never done anything consistently. He's never made the tournament more than 4 years in a row and in that span his teams never finished higher than tied for 4th in the conference. Hell, some people say Cal isn't much of a coach but he saw more success than Tom Crean before he ever got the UK gig. If you don't think he can get us to the top, why is he here? That's exactly what he's paid to do.[/quote] Well, he needs one than one poor season which people on here don't want to give him. Watch what he does this season. We'll be back in the mix. Why was Davis here? Why was Sampson here? Who are your better alternatives? Crean is our coach now, and pressumably for at least a few years to come. Get behind him, support the team, and let's get back to another Sweet Sixteen and beyond. We've experienced more success under Crean than any other coach we've had since the championship appearance. Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

[HoosierAloha 30,020]

Pretty sure this conversation has occurred a few times in the past year.

Summary:
Crean is wildly average, at best. IU should dominate college basketball with a good coach.

Who is that good coach that is willing to come to IU? There is a process to progress to the top.

Well, Brad Stevens!

End conversation.

Yes, coach can have success at IU. The kind of success some fans expect? No, unless he won multiple championships AND changed his name, hair, manner on the sideline, etc..


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[JSHoosier 19,706]

Well, he needs one than one poor season which people on here don't want to give him. Watch what he does this season. We'll be back in the mix. Why did was Davis here? Why was Sampson here? Who are your better alternatives? Crean is our coach now, and pressumably for at least a few years to come. Get behind him, support the team, and let's get back to another Sweet Sixteen and beyond. We've experienced more success under Crean than any other coach we've had since the championship appearance. Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

I've said on this board I'll give him this year, but I've also said the only way he'll get my faith back is an Elite 8 at minimum. Yes, that is too high but we're talking about a coach that has spent most of 15 years wallowing in mediocrity. He had 1 good year at Marquette, out of 9. In 15 years he's won his conference a whopping twice. Not faith inspiring. I don't believe this year will be much better; still young (one of the excuses constantly used for last season), still poorly constructed because our interior is a black hole. I don't buy UCONN as a good comparison either, they had one of the quickest back courts and possibly the toughest guard in the country plus so far Ollie looks to be a good coach. You coukd argue he inherited his team though so it'll be interesting to see how he does going forward.

One down year? He followed up his Final Four by missing the tournament two years in a row too. Besides I still believe 3 of the last 4 have under achieved.

Theres that "stop complaining, support the team" crap again. They are not mutually exclusive. I complain because we've seen the teams wear down near the end more than once, we've repeatedly seen this team look awful against a zone, we've repeatedly seen a half court offense that stands around. Last season's team had problems that can and should be placed on Crean's shoulders, and showed no team improvement; some individual improvement but no team improvement.

Davis and Sampson were hired for the same reason. Davis couldn't do it so he was fired and Sampson was fired because he can't run a program. They were hired for the same reason as Crean, to take us to the top. Can he? Yes, but he has to look in the mirror and improve drastically.

[Dalton26 16,892]

[quote name="Willfesler11" post="71907" timestamp="1403793608"]If that isn't the top to you then how about being the best team in the toughest conference in the country?


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You keep missing the point. It's extremely simple. I don't give a **** about meaningless rankings or about being the top team in conference. If you aren't hanging a banner you aren't on top. Being ranked #1 during the season is equivalent to getting a participation trophy when you were little. It's nice to have but means nothing.


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[Hovadipo 53,967]

[quote name="dalton26" post="71968" timestamp="1403806615"]You keep missing the point. It's extremely simple. I don't give a **** about meaningless rankings or about being the top team in conference. If you aren't hanging a banner you aren't on top. Being ranked #1 during the season is equivalent to getting a participation trophy when you were little. It's nice to have but means nothing.


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I mean...technically we did hang a banner. :)


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[Hutch89 2,939]

Complaining is more than fine, and definitely has validity and facts to back it up.  But the options we have for bringing in a 'better' coach are very limited.  Also, I think that the time-frame that many are putting on Crean to get our program back into the shape it used to be under Knight are on the short-side of realistic.  

I just don't think this exact time, right now, is when we should be pushing to have our coach leave Bloomington.  This next season could very well be the tipping point though.  

yeah, sweet 16's don't mean that we are literally "on top" again.  But hell, that's a job well done.  Hurts to get in the top 32 teams and lose, but that realm of competition is not considered mediocre.
32nd of about 350 D1 teams is top 10%. 



(last year sucked)

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

[quote name="JSHoosier" post="71966" timestamp="1403806413"]I've said on this board I'll give him this year, but I've also said the only way he'll get my faith back is an Elite 8 at minimum. Yes, that is too high but we're talking about a coach that has spent most of 15 years wallowing in mediocrity. He had 1 good year at Marquette, out of 9. In 15 years he's won his conference a whopping twice. Not faith inspiring. I don't believe this year will be much better; still young (one of the excuses constantly used for last season), still poorly constructed because our interior is a black hole. I don't buy UCONN as a good comparison either, they had one of the quickest back courts and possibly the toughest guard in the country plus so far Ollie looks to be a good coach. You coukd argue he inherited his team though so it'll be interesting to see how he does going forward. One down year? He followed up his Final Four by missing the tournament two years in a row too. Besides I still believe 3 of the last 4 have under achieved. Theres that "stop complaining, support the team" crap again. They are not mutually exclusive. I complain because we've seen the teams wear down near the end more than once, we've repeatedly seen this team look awful against a zone, we've repeatedly seen a half court offense that stands around. Last season's team had problems that can and should be placed on Crean's shoulders, and showed no team improvement; some individual improvement but no team improvement. Davis and Sampson were hired for the same reason. Davis couldn't do it so he was fired and Sampson was fired because he can't run a program. They were hired for the same reason as Crean, to take us to the top. Can he? Yes, but he has to look in the mirror and improve drastically.[/quote] My point with my original post was to highlight the volatility of the program. We haven't had any real traction till Crean got here. Sacking him would only hurt us. Support Crean and the stability he can bring to this program. That's what IU needs more than the next Bob Knight right now. Crean isn't a long term solution to IU being a perennial powerhouse, but he's can bring us back to where we need to be. Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

[JSHoosier 19,706]

My point with my original post was to highlight the volatility of the program. We haven't had any real traction till Crean got here. Sacking him would only hurt us. Support Crean and the stability he can bring to this program. That's what IU needs more than the next Bob Knight right now. Crean isn't a long term solution to IU being a perennial powerhouse, but he's can bring us back to where we need to be. Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

Stability does not breed success, success breeds stability.  The amount of stability people want to give Crean requires more success than 2 conference championships and getting past the Sweet 16 once in what will be the better part of two decades.  That is all he's done in 15 years, if that warrants all this time he supposedly needs then people would want to name him president of Earth if he even had the success Tubby Smith had in 10 years at UK.

 

If Crean isn't supposed to be a long term solution, then just pull the bandaid off and be done with it.  If that's all he is then he's done his job and his services are no longer needed so just say he's gone after the year and use the time to find the right guy, no search committees no stop gaps.  If he's just a bandaid then that contract extension he was given is even dumber.  He was given a top 10 paycheck and an indescribably moronic buyout to be a long term solution not a stop gap, and he sure as heck doesn't look like the right guy for that.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

[quote name="JSHoosier" post="72036" timestamp="1403824919"]Stability does not breed success, success breeds stability. The amount of stability people want to give Crean requires more success than 2 conference championships and getting past the Sweet 16 once in what will be the better part of two decades. That is all he's done in 15 years, if that warrants all this time he supposedly needs then people would want to name him president of Earth if he even had the success Tubby Smith had in 10 years at UK. If Crean isn't supposed to be a long term solution, then just pull the bandaid off and be done with it. If that's all he is then he's done his job and his services are no longer needed so just say he's gone after the year and use the time to find the right guy, no search committees no stop gaps. If he's just a bandaid then that contract extension he was given is even dumber. He was given a top 10 paycheck and an indescribably moronic buyout to be a long term solution not a stop gap, and he sure as heck doesn't look like the right guy for that.[/quote] I really don't think you're getting my point. Crean is doing a good enough job to keep him around. He's given us our first two Sweet Sixteens since 2002. Pulling the band-aid is part of the program's problem. Too much turnover and volatility for it to stabilize enough so that it can be successful. Firing Crean would accomplish nothing. I believe he can take us back to the national title game, but we need to be patient. Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

[TheWatShot 13,489]

My point with my original post was to highlight the volatility of the program. We haven't had any real traction till Crean got here. Sacking him would only hurt us. Support Crean and the stability he can bring to this program. That's what IU needs more than the next Bob Knight right now. Crean isn't a long term solution to IU being a perennial powerhouse, but he's can bring us back to where we need to be. Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

 

I've tried really, really hard to stay out of this debate, but where is this "stability" that Crean is supposedly going to bring? Every year we have multiple transfers and every year we bring in too many players. We never know who's going to be here for the long haul and who's just the latest shiny toy Crean picked up while spastically trying to fill the roster. 

 

 

Crean is like an artist who gets about halfway through the drawing and then rips it up because he thought of something better. Except his next idea isn't better…it's just different. 

[JSHoosier 19,706]

I really don't think you're getting my point. Crean is doing a good enough job to keep him around. He's given us our first two Sweet Sixteens since 2002. Pulling the band-aid is part of the program's problem. Too much turnover and volatility for it to stabilize enough so that it can be successful. Firing Crean would accomplish nothing. I believe he can take us back to the national title game, but we need to be patient. Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

I believe for him to take us there he has to look in the mirror and improve drastically.  The fact of the matter is he's gone past the Sweet 16 once in 15 years and at some point a coach's resume reflects their ability.  15 years of evidence says no he probably can't and if he can't it doesn't matter how much time he's given.  So keeping him around will just be complacency.

 

My point is stability alone will do nothing.  If your stable with a mediocre coach you will never get to the next level.  You said he's not a long term solution, your exact words, so why give him an unlimited leash?  With me he's on a year to year basis.  I'm willing to give him this year, if the team misses the tournament again or barely squeaks in I'm done he needs to go.  If they are solidly in and look competent even in a loss, I'll give him another year.

[ccgeneral 38,084]

On the house folks. You guys are slowing down here. Enjoy.

 

[TrueHoosier62 1,592]

"Crean is like an artist who gets about halfway through the drawing and then rips it up because he thought of something better. Except his next idea isn't better…it's just different".

 

One of the best, most accurate analogies I've seen on here in some time. Well said.

[Hutch89 2,939]

Let's all just see how this next season goes. Hoosier Cowboy and I will be BFFs ifs things don't go well.

I'm supporting coach for now though and sippin' on the same brown mystery juice from a mini water bottle until I see a 2nd disappointing season.


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[KelleyHoosh 2,263]

Whoever gets Kyle Anderson is getting a steal

[RBB89 3,497]

You know, if people are going to keep bringing up transfers, a little data never hurts:

 

http://www.crimsonquarry.com/2014/3/26/5549544/transfers-and-the-big-ten-tom-creans-epidemic

[Stuhoo 77,890]

You know, if people are going to keep bringing up transfers, a little data never hurts:

 

http://www.crimsonquarry.com/2014/3/26/5549544/transfers-and-the-big-ten-tom-creans-epidemic

 

Wow.  Looks like "Creaning" should be re-defined as "pretty much an average number of transfers".

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

[quote name="RBB89" post="72141" timestamp="1403874602"]You know, if people are going to keep bringing up transfers, a little data never hurts:

[url="http://www.crimsonquarry.com/2014/3/26/5549544/transfers-and-the-big-ten-tom-creans-epidemic"]http://www.crimsonquarry.com/2014/3/26/5549544/transfers-and-the-big-ten-tom-creans-epidemic[/url][/quote] Thank you.

I believe in Crean. I don't believe he can do what Bob Knight did for Indiana, which is what I suspect everyone actually means when they say "back on top", but he can get us back to being a title contender.

In his six years at Indiana, including his first two years where he started with less than nothing, we've won the B1G, gone to the Sweet Sixteen twice, shocked an undefeated #1 ranked Kentucky, signed 5 McDAA's, developed and coached three lottery picks, and recorded a perfect four year APR score.

I don't care what he did at Marquette. To even compare that program to Indiana and what Crean was able to accomplish there is ridiculous. What he has accomplished here, has me very excited for the future.



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