Scouting a potential Crean replacement

[BlueDevil 8,643]

[quote name="HoosierAloha" post="40541" timestamp="1392764854"]He might bring enough intensity for the whole team.


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I can hear it now.. "THATS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU PUT US UP AGAINST A SORRY TEAM LIKE PURDUE"

[schoosier 3,444]

Really isn't any reason for the personal attacks because someone disagrees with your opinion. Can we not be like some of the other IU forums that many of us left because of that very thing.

I thought I responded in kind to his, but I understand how moderating can be tough and I apologize for that. I also understand how when things get difficult on the hardwood, that you will have opposites on what they think is best for IU basketball. I believe wee all want a good or sick product on the floor and that's certainly not what were getting. Especially for 3 million a year.

[JustWinWoody 3,259]

Wow! Discussing who to replace a B1G Champion defending coach with after losing 2 top 4 draft picks and other professional level players the previous year? Sounds pretty ridiculous to me.


Nixie

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[Chizzo 2]

I live in Memphis and Pastner is the last guy you want. OVER RATED! !!

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[Hoosierfan1990 50]

Don't get rid of Crean yet.

However my list would consist of:

Brad Stevens
Tim Miles

However, I'm pretty sure the first wouldn't be available and the second wouldn't accept.


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I wouldn't be so sure Miles wouldn't accept if offered. If you look at his record he hasn't stayed at schools very long and has turned programs around very quickly. IU is a destination job that he could feel comfortable leading for years. He is currently in a 7 year deal with Neb, so that mixed with Crean's buyout could eventually get in the way.

[yogisballin 2,288]

I live in Memphis and Pastner is the last guy you want. OVER RATED! !!

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I agree, that would be a HUGE step back IMO

[yogisballin 2,288]

Don't get rid of Crean yet.

However my list would consist of:

Brad Stevens
Tim Miles

However, I'm pretty sure the first wouldn't be available and the second wouldn't accept.


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You're only going to have these 2 guys on your list? Stevens wouldn't leave Boston after 1 year, maybe after about 3 years depending on how they're doing and how much heat is there at the time. And with Tim Miles, there isn't enough sample size out there yet. I don't follow Nebraska bball enough to know how his system works and etc. So I would pass, for now. However, it does appear that he knows how to put a program in the right direction. Also an fyi, I was never a big fan of the CTC hire. I remember that day so well. I called my dad and we talked about it. His resume and coaching style was mediocre at best.

[CR3AMnCR1MS0N 1,867]

[quote name="nixie" post="40579" timestamp="1392776005"]Wow! Discussing who to replace a B1G Champion defending coach with after losing 2 top 4 draft picks and other professional level players the previous year? Sounds pretty ridiculous to me.


Nixie

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This. Imagine how ridiculous it would've been to us if UK fans were calling for paypal Cal's head bc he couldn't win with a title team that lost 6 players to the nba.


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[JSHoosier 19,559]

Wow! Discussing who to replace a B1G Champion defending coach with after losing 2 top 4 draft picks and other professional level players the previous year? Sounds pretty ridiculous to me.


Nixie

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Michigan lost Burke and Hardaway and McGary for the season, starting 3 sophomores and a freshman at point guard and they're doing just fine.  Syracuse lost MCW, Southerland and Triche, 3 players combining for nearly 39 points, and they're undefeated.  This argument needs to go away.  It's not an excuse to be in the cellar this year, every coach has to deal with losing players.  Cal went to the NIT, yes, his best player was injured and if Noel was healthy they would've made the tournament.

 

This. Imagine how ridiculous it would've been to us if UK fans were calling for paypal Cal's head bc he couldn't win with a title team that lost 6 players to the nba.


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Cal was coming off a national title, that gives you more leeway.  Besides, if you care to check, Cal's resume is better than Crean's even without that national title and that gives him more leeway on it's own.

 

When you're resume is 95% inconsistency and mediocrity, like Crean's is, you will not and should not get the leash a champion coach does.  Going by his history, seasons like last year aren't the norm, mediocrity is.

[Hovadipo 52,924]

[quote name="JSHoosier" post="40605" timestamp="1392780964"]Michigan lost Burke and Hardaway and McGary for the season, starting 3 sophomores and a freshman at point guard and they're doing just fine. Syracuse lost MCW, Southerland and Triche, 3 players combining for nearly 39 points, and they're undefeated. This argument needs to go away.[/quote]

Boeheim always has upperclassmen, though. I'm not a fan of the Syracuse argument because he runs his player personnel differently (and better) than Crean does. He also happened to come across the best Freshman in the nation. They lost those 3 guys, but they had a solid core with Fair, Moussa-Keita (sp?), Cooney, and Grant has come out well as a Sophomore. We were left with Will and Yogi. Michigan I agree with and I think we both agree that they are pulling that off by having John Beilein at the helm.


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[JSHoosier 19,559]

Boeheim always has upperclassmen, though. I'm not a fan of the Syracuse argument because he runs his player personnel differently (and better) than Crean does. He also happened to come across the best Freshman in the nation. They lost those 3 guys, but they had a solid core with Fair, Moussa-Keita (sp?), Cooney, and Grant has come out well as a Sophomore. We were left with Will and Yogi. Michigan I agree with and I think we both agree that they are pulling that off by having John Beilein at the helm.


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A coach needs to be flexible though, Boeheim has said he thinks the most important aspect of being a coach is flexibility.  I think we can all agree that Crean is far from it, instead of adapting his style to fit his team he tries to shove a square peg in a round hole and the team suffers.  I'd rather have a coach that is willing to adapt, even Pete Carroll said he wouldn't have ran that defense with a different set of players

[Hovadipo 52,924]

[quote name="JSHoosier" post="40616" timestamp="1392782156"]A coach needs to be flexible though, Boeheim has said he thinks the most important aspect of being a coach is flexibility. I think we can all agree that Crean is far from it, instead of adapting his style to fit his team he tries to shove a square peg in a round hole and the team suffers. I'd rather have a coach that is willing to adapt, even Pete Carroll said he wouldn't have ran that defense with a different set of players[/quote]

I see what you're saying. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we shouldn't expect results that Syracuse and Michigan are getting after losing players because our coach isn't able like Beilein and Boeheim to adapt.


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[Rayl 527]

This. Imagine how ridiculous it would've been to us if UK fans were calling for paypal Cal's head bc he couldn't win with a title team that lost 6 players to the nba.


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Did Crean win a title?

 

Let's not forget that UK ran Tubby out of town two years after an Elite Eight appearance. Oh how Indiana fans laughed when Tubby proved how ridiculous UK was when he was at Minnesota ... or not.

[JSHoosier 19,559]

I see what you're saying. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we shouldn't expect results that Syracuse and Michigan are getting after losing players because our coach isn't able like Beilein and Boeheim to adapt.


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I'm just tired of the "look what we lost" excuse to try and exonerate Crean when we're in the cellar because he can't/won't adapt.

 

I find it funny that the argument gets twisted.  We struggle and people say "we lost two top 4 picks", but say "Crean couldn't get past the Sweet 16 with 2 top 4 picks" and it's countered with Cody not being projected that high.  Well, it can't be both ways, if you try to diminish the argument when it's a criticism you're also diminishing you're own argument because it means we lost less.  Same thing with the 4 1000 points scorers.

[BlueDevil 8,643]

[quote name="JSHoosier" post="40623" timestamp="1392782533"]I'm just tired of the "look what we lost" excuse to try and exonerate Crean when we're in the cellar because he can't/won't adapt.[/quote]

Sometimes I also don't get the reference to back to back sweet sixteens when arguing for coach to stay when last season ended in disappointment in the sweet sixteen when we should have gone much further. How does a semi early tourney exit count for a 1 seed count?

[JSHoosier 19,559]

Sometimes I also don't get the reference to back to back sweet sixteens when arguing for coach to stay when last season ended in disappointment in the sweet sixteen when we should have gone much further. How does a semi early tourney exit count for a 1 seed count?

I don't know.  We've had fans call Wisconsin a mediocre program because they lose in the Sweet 16 on pretty much an annual basis.  I know I keep harping on his track record, but his resume is what it is, and his resume says years where he even gets to the Sweet 16 are unusual.  80% of his career has been spent losing in the round of 32, if his team made the tournament at all.  93% (yes, I've done the math) of his career he has played hopscotch with the line between bad and mediocre.

[BlueDevil 8,643]

[quote name="JSHoosier" post="40627" timestamp="1392783281"]I don't know. We've had fans call Wisconsin a mediocre program because they lose in the Sweet 16 on pretty much an annual basis. I know I keep harping on his track record, but his resume is what it is, and his resume says years where he even gets to the Sweet 16 are unusual. 80% of his career has been spent losing in the round of 32, if his team made the tournament at all. 93% (yes, I've done the math) of his career he has played hopscotch with the line between bad and mediocre.[/quote]

I agree with your assessment of tom.

[All_Hoosiers 873]

[quote name="JSHoosier" post="40623" timestamp="1392782533"]I'm just tired of the "look what we lost" excuse to try and exonerate Crean when we're in the cellar because he can't/won't adapt.

I find it funny that the argument gets twisted. We struggle and people say "we lost two top 4 picks", but say "Crean couldn't get past the Sweet 16 with 2 top 4 picks" and it's countered with Cody not being projected that high. Well, it can't be both ways, if you try to diminish the argument when it's a criticism you're also diminishing you're own argument because it means we lost less. Same thing with the 4 1000 points scorers.[/quote]

I don't like that argument either, especially that "two top four picks" (we all know my thoughts on Cody Zeller).

Tom Crean isn't the first coach to lose a lot of talent, leadership, etc. I lean towards the side of his supporters, but I've rarely, if ever, used the "we lost a lot" argument. I just don't really care for it.

He hasn't adapted, making stubbornness a key problem. His team is full of athletic slashers, yet he has them stand around.




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[Golfman25 4,651]

The reality is that a college coach is a coach and a GM.  Personnel decisions fall squarely on him.  You need to be able to reload talent as it leaves.  You need to be able to ensure you have some consistency and balance -- experience (frosh/soph and Jr./Sr.), and skills (shooters, slashers, defenders, & bigs).  You need to be able to adapt your playing philosophy to that talent.  Not many people are really good at it.  Most fail.         

[JSHoosier 19,559]

Saw this on another board, and it seems extremely accurate.