Can Crean Coach?

[Str8Hoosiers 2,965]

Just for the record I was not trying to down Coach Crean or start any arguments.... I agree with almost every post in this thread on some of the points. He is a great recruiter, and he develops players... As somebody else said I have never seena  coach so in tune with all of the other sports are the school....

 

He is a really good coach IMO and I do think we will hang a banner during his time (At least I strongly hope so)....

 

I also agree sometimes the players mess up and that makes a coach look bad / or the players do great and make a coach look great.... It was mentioned above about the Syracuse game and although that game stands out I agree the players killed us more than the coaching, there were some things CTC could have done differently but in all we just didn't come to play.... but to give coach all the credit for Victor (for example - As his hard work and dedication had at least something to do with his development) and none of the blame for the bad is hypocrisy.

 

It is the in-game decisions that I sometimes question are usually substitutions etc... like why didn't this guy play or why is he still playing.... LIU was playing a zone letting us bomb away 3s... surely we have somebody on the bench (Marlin from what I have heard) that can hit some 3s... maybe they can play no defense, they are a liability with the ball in there hands, etc.... but just for a short spurt put him in the game and let him shoot them out of the zone so everyone else can play their game after/if the defense changes....

 

LETS GO HOOSIERS.... LETS GO CREAN!!!

[mdn82 25,456]

I totally agree with his point every time he made it too.  You are only a good as your weakest link.  I think that is why it gets brought up.  The in-game offensive adjustments and the half-court offense in general are glaring weaknesses that I would love to see fixed.

 

That is part of what made that poster a lightning rod.  Its how you feel his negativity or truth in how he sees those 3 things.  How he relayed it is what made that a lightning response.  Most people only had experiences with him around when Zeller signed until now.  Most people don't realize he is always that way.  Its just all how you relay yourself.  Like you said, you feel you are only as strong as your weakness.  Does that mean a coach that is limited at recruiting, even if he is a great in game coach can't win?  I would disagree with that.  I think we have seen coaches who are great recruiters (and not great in game coaches) win like Calipari.  Then we have seen great coaches who were limited on how they could recruit win in Brad Stevens.  Coaches like Coach K are once in a generation coaches.  I think we got a coach who is elite at one major area that pertains to actual IU mens basketball which is fantastic in this era.  Even Pitino who has been an elite coach for years can't keep up with Crean recruiting.  I see a time like Calipari where it all clicks for Crean's team.  Not with all freshman though.  We will see though.

[mdn82 25,456]

Just for the record I was not trying to down Coach Crean or start any arguments.... I agree with almost every post in this thread on some of the points. He is a great recruiter, and he develops players... As somebody else said I have never seena  coach so in tune with all of the other sports are the school....

 

He is a really good coach IMO and I do think we will hang a banner during his time (At least I strongly hope so)....

 

I also agree sometimes the players mess up and that makes a coach look bad / or the players do great and make a coach look great.... It was mentioned above about the Syracuse game and although that game stands out I agree the players killed us more than the coaching, there were some things CTC could have done differently but in all we just didn't come to play.... but to give coach all the credit for Victor (for example - As his hard work and dedication had at least something to do with his development) and none of the blame for the bad is hypocrisy.

 

It is the in-game decisions that I sometimes question are usually substitutions etc... like why didn't this guy play or why is he still playing.... LIU was playing a zone letting us bomb away 3s... surely we have somebody on the bench (Marlin from what I have heard) that can hit some 3s... maybe they can play no defense, they are a liability with the ball in there hands, etc.... but just for a short spurt put him in the game and let him shoot them out of the zone so everyone else can play their game after/if the defense changes....

 

LETS GO HOOSIERS.... LETS GO CREAN!!!

Dude, don't stress it.  We are big boys and can hold a discussion.  If we disagree I hope we would all lay out points to why we disagree, and would hope you would do the same.  The only thing I can't stand is when someone disagrees, and can't articulate a point to why they disagree and turn to calling someone a slurper or something idiotic because they aren't smart enough to respond.  Discussions are what make a place like this worth coming to. 

[Hwy 1 2,053]

Dude, don't stress it.  We are big boys and can hold a discussion.  If we disagree I hope we would all lay out points to why we disagree, and would hope you would do the same.  The only thing I can't stand is when someone disagrees, and can't articulate a point to why they disagree and turn to calling someone a slurper or something idiotic because they aren't smart enough to respond.  Discussions are what make a place like this worth coming to. 

 

 

Whereas I generally agree with your statement I'd like to make a comment about it. Some people are quite intelligent but not very good at communication. Saying that someone isn't smart because they aren't good communicators is pretty much doing the same thing as what you're railing about. There are often other reasons existing for throwing ones hand up in frustration. 

[mdn82 25,456]

Whereas I generally agree with your statement I'd like to make a comment about it. Some people are quite intelligent but not very good at communication. Saying that someone isn't smart because they aren't good communicators is pretty much doing the same thing as what you're railing about. There are often other reasons existing for throwing ones hand up in frustration. 

I think I would rather someone try and explain what they are saying, instead of going to insults.  Which you are correct, I essentially did the same thing that annoys the piss out of me.  I shouldn't have.  I would definitely agree with you on that. 

[JSHoosier 19,555]

That is part of what made that poster a lightning rod.  Its how you feel his negativity or truth in how he sees those 3 things.  How he relayed it is what made that a lightning response.  Most people only had experiences with him around when Zeller signed until now.  Most people don't realize he is always that way.  Its just all how you relay yourself.  Like you said, you feel you are only as strong as your weakness.  Does that mean a coach that is limited at recruiting, even if he is a great in game coach can't win?  I would disagree with that.  I think we have seen coaches who are great recruiters (and not great in game coaches) win like Calipari.  Then we have seen great coaches who were limited on how they could recruit win in Brad Stevens.  Coaches like Coach K are once in a generation coaches.  I think we got a coach who is elite at one major area that pertains to actual IU mens basketball which is fantastic in this era.  Even Pitino who has been an elite coach for years can't keep up with Crean recruiting.  I see a time like Calipari where it all clicks for Crean's team.  Not with all freshman though.  We will see though.

I think I know which poster you're talking about.  He's knowledgeable about the game, but very abrasive in how he posts.  I've exchanged PMs with him though and they've been pleasant.

 

I don't really think Cal is a great example though.  No one in the country is recruiting on the level he is, dirty as he may be.  I've said before and I'll say it again, even Mike Davis could win with the teams he's put together at UK.

[Dalton26 16,891]

CTC wouldn't be the coach at IU if he couldn't coach. You don't advance in the coaching profession without winning games and he is at one of the top programs in the country. For those that say developing talent isn't coaching, I disagree. Good coaches develop talent and Crean has a resume as good as any as far as that is concerned. To evaluate CTC or any coach on one bad game (Syracuse) where the match ups were awful for us to begin with is short sighted. Coaching involves recruiting, player development, and X's and O's duuring a game. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and mine is Crean is a solid coach in every respect.

There's a huge difference between developing players and coaching. You can develop players all year long and help them improve but if you can't coach them in game and make adjustments as the game goes on then how is that really coaching? I love Crean as much as the next guy but fact of the matter is he does have a bit of room to improve on his in game coaching. Good thing is that he's not as old in terms of coaching and I don't doubt a bit that he will continue to improve himself as a head coach. I like Crean and I hope IU keeps him around for a long time.


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[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

Why shouldn't we look at negatives?  A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.  By that argument we should only remember Cellvin Samsung as a good in game coach, not that his weaknesses are why the program was blown up.

That's twice in 3 posts we've had the chain reference. It's probably one of the worst analogies in sports.

 

Coaching is not a chain, nor are teams.

Our weakest link is some kid sitting at the end of the bench. If he were Steve Alford we'd be better, but if he were Jesan Grey-Ashley, this team wouldn't be worse.

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

There's a huge difference between developing players and coaching. You can develop players all year long and help them improve but if you can't coach them in game and make adjustments as the game goes on then how is that really coaching? I love Crean as much as the next guy but fact of the matter is he does have a bit of room to improve on his in game coaching. Good thing is that he's not as old in terms of coaching and I don't doubt a bit that he will continue to improve himself as a head coach. I like Crean and I hope IU keeps him around for a long time.


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Because it's all coaching. Coaching doesn't take place for 20 minutes, each half of a ball game and then stop.

 

Get how you said "in game coaching"? The rest is also coaching.

[BrownCoEagle 8]

I think we'll find out a lot about Crean and his coaching abilities this season. Has talent, though very young, and not a lot of leadership on the court so far. His coaching will be a lot more under the microscope this season.

AS far as philosophy on weakness vs strength....W.Klitchko is the most dominant heavyweight boxer in recent history, but he has a glass jaw and it was exposed early on his career several times, but he learned to use his strengths to hide his weaknesses and has rarely been challenged in recent years. Yes the heavyweight  division isn't the same as when Ali and Frazier were in their primes but even though his weakness is well known nobody has been able to exploit it.

Crean sin't as bad as some people think and probably not as good as others think, but he has a lot more going for him than against him. He will get better and better, imo. 

[Dalton26 16,891]

Because it's all coaching. Coaching doesn't take place for 20 minutes, each half of a ball game and then stop.

Get how you said "in game coaching"? The rest is also coaching.

Player development and coaching are apples and oranges. Our strength coach helps with player development but that doesn't mean he can coach the game of basketball. As I've said numerous times you can develop players all day long but that doesn't mean you can coach the game. Is Crean a bad coach? By no means am I saying that but he's also not that great of an in game coach either. The man can recruit and he can help you get better but when it comes to him making in game adjustments it's just not there in my opinion.


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[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

I'd say he did a good
Job of coaching today!


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[hoosierfan84 296]

I am a longtime Hoosier fan and I agree with the UofL and UK fans.  He had the most talented team last year and could only make it to the Sweet 16.  The games they got whipped were because they could not run a half court offense.  As long as they could run and gun, they were brilliant.  I went to the home opener this year against Chicago St. and they didn't seem to have a half court set.  Keep an eye on this because I think it's the key indicator.

Gee, I'm a longtime Hoosier fan and couldn't disagree more with every word of your statement.