Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[iu eyedoc 1,861]

8 hours ago, DChoosier said:

No, it’s not lost on me.
Your post just happened to be one of a thousand referencing us paying guys. Is $$$ the only reason Tucker wants to play at IU? Maybe, but I don’t know that for sure. Many said that about Ware but he turned out seeming pretty dedicated to IU/winning,

Well, IU wasn't in the conversation a few days ago, but soon after the backers of the First Bank of Inside Out ball ponied up more to prop up the failing institution, he suddenly visits and commits in 2 days. It doesn't take a lot of guessing what his motivation is.

And there is nothing wrong with him getting all he can, but overpaying a  coveted recruit, overpaying the 4th to 6th man off the bench and overpaying  a fan favorite shitty 3 point shooting guard should be 6th man is far from a recipe for success.

 

As for Ware, he was a nice one season get and surely kept IU from being stone cold awful, but never did I sense any strong tie IU hoops.

And again that isn't an awful thing, but anyone thinking overpaying mercenary talent is some panacea  just look  a few hundred miles south. What you get is a cheap knockoff version of chronically underperforming UK basketball with a disinterested outdated Dollar Store coach.

[KNOBYDOX 109]

If Woodson gave all the players who stayed big ataboy raises and has to over pay his picks of new players.How far will the reported 6 million go and how many scholarships will he have to leave open when he runs out of money?

Edited March 29 by KNOBYDOX

[Papacap 459]

3 minutes ago, KNOBYDOX said:

If Woodson gave all the players who stayed big ataboy raises and has to over pay his picks of new players.How far will the reported 6 million go and how many scholarships will he have to leave open when he runs out of money?

This is exactly right. When you are giving more money to a player like Leal, who should be playing when IU is either up or down by 25, then you know every other player on the roster is getting a pay increase. Or they would have tested the portal. 

[Redleader 165]

21 minutes ago, iu eyedoc said:

Well, IU wasn't in the conversation a few days ago, but soon after the backers of the First Bank of Inside Out ball ponied up more to prop up the failing institution, he suddenly visits and commits in 2 days. It doesn't take a lot of guessing what his motivation is.

And there is nothing wrong with him getting all he can, but overpaying a  coveted recruit, overpaying the 4th to 6th man off the bench and overpaying  a fan favorite shitty 3 point shooting guard should be 6th man is far from a recipe for success.

 

As for Ware, he was a nice one season get and surely kept IU from being stone cold awful, but never did I sense any strong tie IU hoops.

And again that isn't an awful thing, but anyone thinking overpaying mercenary talent is some panacea  just look  a few hundred miles south. What you get is a cheap knockoff version of chronically underperforming UK basketball with a disinterested outdated Dollar Store coach.

Another possible factor could be that his dad did not have him play AAU ball.  Woody doesn’t seem to care for that and just generally anything recruiting related.  Maybe that philosophy/attitude was common ground that turned into compatibility.

[DChoosier 7,916]

23 minutes ago, iu eyedoc said:

And again that isn't an awful thing, but anyone thinking overpaying mercenary talent is some panacea  just look  a few hundred miles south. What you get is a cheap knockoff version of chronically underperforming UK basketball with a disinterested outdated Dollar Store coach.

Maybe I missed some posts that feel overpaying mercenary talent is a panacea but I think’ you are debating a point no one is making.

I wish we could go back in a time machine and land a few high school players, and Liam would have stayed, but we can’t change what has happened up to now. And yes, that is Woody’s fault.
The facts today, which none of us like, are that the administration has decided to keep Woody and we only have only have a half roster. Unless we can find 6 Jimmy Chitwoods that prove their IU loyalty with huge Hoosier tattoos on their chest, and are willing to play for the love of IU rather than money, we have little choice other than paying (or perhaps overpaying in some cases) for guys.  It’s not a panacea, it’s a necessity  based on where we are today. And again, yes it’s Woody fault, not ideal, but what else can be done at this point (other then fire Woody which isn’t happening)?

[Stuhoo 79,755]

2 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

Maybe I missed some posts that feel overpaying mercenary talent is a panacea but I think’ you are debating a point no one is making.

I wish we could go back in a time machine and land a few high school players, and Liam would have stayed, but we can’t change what has happened up to now. And yes, that is Woody’s fault.
The facts today, which none of us like, are that the administration has decided to keep Woody and we only have only have a half roster. Unless we can find 6 Jimmy Chitwoods that prove their IU loyalty with huge Hoosier tattoos on their chest, and are willing to play for the love of IU rather than money, we have little choice other than paying (or perhaps overpaying in some cases) for guys.  It’s not a panacea, it’s a necessity  based on where we are today. And again, yes it’s Woody fault, not ideal, but what else can be done at this point (other then fire Woody which isn’t happening)?

 

After getting one out-of-state five star, all four of the guards we are prioritizing (Perkins, Walker, Hickman, and Conwell) and one of the bigs (Humrichous) are born and raised in Indiana. And they're all grown-ups, not 18 year olds. 

The game has now been "professionalized." With that fact, rather than scour the country for 100% mercenaries, we apparently are focusing in a real way on players that are more likely to play for IU because of their connection to their home state.

It's the age-old discussion about whether we should give bonus points to in-state kids; in this case we apparently believe we will get a better return on recruiting investment by doing so.

 

[iu eyedoc 1,861]

2 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

Maybe I missed some posts that feel overpaying mercenary talent is a panacea but I think’ you are debating a point no one is making.

I wish we could go back in a time machine and land a few high school players, and Liam would have stayed, but we can’t change what has happened up to now. And yes, that is Woody’s fault.
The facts today, which none of us like, are that the administration has decided to keep Woody and we only have only have a half roster. Unless we can find 6 Jimmy Chitwoods that prove their IU loyalty with huge Hoosier tattoos on their chest, and are willing to play for the love of IU rather than money, we have little choice other than paying (or perhaps overpaying in some cases) for guys.  It’s not a panacea, it’s a necessity  based on where we are today. And again, yes it’s Woody fault, not ideal, but what else can be done at this point (other then fire Woody which isn’t happening)?

I get it, but how does the powers that be not?  I don't expect undying IU loyalty, but sadly bringing in some 5* wing to play in Woodrow's 1986 offense doesn't move the needle for me. That the next season is nothing more than some sacrificial season to stroke Woodson's ego and that he will most assuredly check out ( even more than he is now) by midseason is just aggravating, well at least as much as I can muster anymore with relation to IU hoops.

[Demo 19,659]

55 minutes ago, iu eyedoc said:

Well, IU wasn't in the conversation a few days ago, but soon after the backers of the First Bank of Inside Out ball ponied up more to prop up the failing institution, he suddenly visits and commits in 2 days. It doesn't take a lot of guessing what his motivation is.

And there is nothing wrong with him getting all he can, but overpaying a  coveted recruit, overpaying the 4th to 6th man off the bench and overpaying  a fan favorite shitty 3 point shooting guard should be 6th man is far from a recipe for success.

 

As for Ware, he was a nice one season get and surely kept IU from being stone cold awful, but never did I sense any strong tie IU hoops.

And again that isn't an awful thing, but anyone thinking overpaying mercenary talent is some panacea  just look  a few hundred miles south. What you get is a cheap knockoff version of chronically underperforming UK basketball with a disinterested outdated Dollar Store coach.

Couple of things with this: 1) I assume the bold print is an MSU Insider or some such and their implication is that IU outbid them for Tucker. IU probably outbid someone, but it wasn't MSU, which is currently oversigned by 1, or KU, which if Furphy goes and McNeeley commits is on the number. They didn't have roster room. Funny, I would expect an insider to know that. 2) If you would, either link to the source for the NIL packages that Tucker, Galloway and Leal received or just summarize them because I've never seen those and I'd love to. 3) Ware has been nothing but highly complimentary, probably as gushy as a taciturn kid can get, about his IU experience. He was far less mercenary than I expected.

[OKHOOSIER 1,984]

38 minutes ago, iu eyedoc said:

Well, IU wasn't in the conversation a few days ago, but soon after the backers of the First Bank of Inside Out ball ponied up more to prop up the failing institution, he suddenly visits and commits in 2 days. It doesn't take a lot of guessing what his motivation is.

And there is nothing wrong with him getting all he can, but overpaying a  coveted recruit, overpaying the 4th to 6th man off the bench and overpaying  a fan favorite shitty 3 point shooting guard should be 6th man is far from a recipe for success.

 

As for Ware, he was a nice one season get and surely kept IU from being stone cold awful, but never did I sense any strong tie IU hoops.

And again that isn't an awful thing, but anyone thinking overpaying mercenary talent is some panacea  just look  a few hundred miles south. What you get is a cheap knockoff version of chronically underperforming UK basketball with a disinterested outdated Dollar Store coach.

Well said, and I will add Tucker just simply does not move the needle on the fire Woody train. We trade an objectively MUCH better 5-star who filled a need for one who really doesn’t fill a need other than a body that was obviously holding out for more cash. This is nothing like MR, JHS or MM and those recruiting situation. Were they all “short?” Sure I guess, but MM and MR were late de-commits. People call the JHS one short but he was committed for a full year before he enrolled in the school. 
 

Without Ware this team was sub .500, with some horrific early losses, and Woody would probably be fired. Full stop. Army, FGCU and Morehead are losses without Ware. 
 

What I will be watching for next is the center. I suspect Woody lands another high level starting center (we’ve showed their development and commitment to pounding the ball inside). If (when) that happens the reality of the situation will be clear— MR and MM are entrenched as 4/3 despite being out of position and history repeats itself. Then, to have any chance of sniffing the upper half of the conference we HAVE to land a dynamic PG/CG that can create and score off the bounce and shoot the 3. Woodys offense does not work without it. We’ve seen it. At its best with JHS creating his own shot, or good X slashing. And we know what the ceiling is. Sorry for the long winded regurgitation of your thoughts. 
 

Fire the guy better at recruiting in March than having his team playing basketball games in March. 

[DChoosier 7,916]

4 minutes ago, Demo said:

Couple of things with this: 1) I assume the bold print is an MSU Insider or some such and their implication is that IU outbid them for Tucker. IU probably outbid someone, but it wasn't MSU, which is currently oversigned by 1, or KU, which if Furphy goes and McNeeley commits is on the number. They didn't have roster room. Funny, I would expect an insider to know that. 2) If you would, either link to the source for the NIL packages that Tucker, Galloway and Leal received or just summarize them because I've never seen those and I'd love to. 3) Ware has been nothing but highly complimentary, probably as gushy as a taciturn kid can get, about his IU experience. He was far less mercenary than I expected.

100% about Ware. Many posters (I’m not saying eyedoc) and commentators thought “entitled”5* Ware would shut it down for the NBA draft when he was injured and our season was seemingly over. Instead he came back, initially was clearly in pain and played his butt off while leading us to the best stretch of the season (admittedly too little too late).  I’m not sure what else he could have done to prove his connection to teammates/IU.  

On a side note, amidst a really crappy season it was kind of nice to watch him go from a 6 point a game disappointment to potential first rounder as he seems like a really nice, introverted kid.

[Chris007 43,567]

20 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

After getting one out-of-state five star, all four of the guards we are prioritizing (Perkins, Walker, Hickman, and Conwell) and one of the bigs (Humrichous) are born and raised in Indiana. And they're all grown-ups, not 18 year olds. 

The game has now been "professionalized." With that fact, rather than scour the country for 100% mercenaries, we apparently are focusing in a real way on players that are more likely to play for IU because of their connection to their home state.

It's the age-old discussion about whether we should give bonus points to in-state kids; in this case we apparently believe we will get a better return on recruiting investment by doing so.

 

We're going to need to pull out all the stops to get Hickman. He has 2-3 teams ahead of us because of our offense right now. He is taking our visit this weekend to come home and see family, probably to find out how much we are willing to pay but Nebraska and Cincy are both in front of us along with Kansas. 

That's one of the problems when you have to announce you have a bunch of money to spend to save your coach. Every prospect puts IU on their list to try to get more money. But you have to play the hand you're dealt. 

[HoosierHoopster 6,840]

It is the age old discussion. For me, it’s important to have some Indiana guys, as we’re supposed to be the State school, and Indiana in some years will have great talent. 
But some of my all time favorite IU players are from all over. Vic, maybe my all time favorite, OG, Hell I Thomas, etc.

I want the best players who WANT to play at IU. Ware is a great example, Portal, didn’t grow up a Hoosier wanting to play for IU, but couldn’t have represented us better on the court. Great kid, great player, like many other former IU players from outside IN, and I’m looking forward to seeing how he develops and grows as an NBA player

[Chris007 43,567]

21 minutes ago, Demo said:

Couple of things with this: 1) I assume the bold print is an MSU Insider or some such and their implication is that IU outbid them for Tucker. IU probably outbid someone, but it wasn't MSU, which is currently oversigned by 1, or KU, which if Furphy goes and McNeeley commits is on the number. They didn't have roster room. Funny, I would expect an insider to know that. 2) If you would, either link to the source for the NIL packages that Tucker, Galloway and Leal received or just summarize them because I've never seen those and I'd love to. 3) Ware has been nothing but highly complimentary, probably as gushy as a taciturn kid can get, about his IU experience. He was far less mercenary than I expected.

If Tucker, Galloway, or Leal want to announce how much they got then they can but I won't spoil their payday by saying it but if you don't think they didn't get a raise then I don't know what to tell you.

I mean it's on record on a message board from one of the people who run a NIL collective saying they got a raise.

[Hoosierfan2017 20,925]

18 minutes ago, OKHOOSIER said:

Well said, and I will add Tucker just simply does not move the needle on the fire Woody train. We trade an objectively MUCH better 5-star who filled a need for one who really doesn’t fill a need other than a body that was obviously holding out for more cash. This is nothing like MR, JHS or MM and those recruiting situation. Were they all “short?” Sure I guess, but MM and MR were late de-commits. People call the JHS one short but he was committed for a full year before he enrolled in the school. 
 

Without Ware this team was sub .500, with some horrific early losses, and Woody would probably be fired. Full stop. Army, FGCU and Morehead are losses without Ware. 
 

What I will be watching for next is the center. I suspect Woody lands another high level starting center (we’ve showed their development and commitment to pounding the ball inside). If (when) that happens the reality of the situation will be clear— MR and MM are entrenched as 4/3 despite being out of position and history repeats itself. Then, to have any chance of sniffing the upper half of the conference we HAVE to land a dynamic PG/CG that can create and score off the bounce and shoot the 3. Woodys offense does not work without it. We’ve seen it. At its best with JHS creating his own shot, or good X slashing. And we know what the ceiling is. Sorry for the long winded regurgitation of your thoughts. 
 

Fire the guy better at recruiting in March than having his team playing basketball games in March. 

It’s because we saw the same thing happen last year. MM was the #10 recruit, McDonald’s all American. We then finish 10-10 in a very mediocre Big 10 and miss the tournament. Tucker is the #20 recruit, McDonald’s all American. Will we better next year? Maybe. Ware is gone, and without him we probably win a dozen games max last year. 

As I said before, we’ll probably buy enough ‘talent’ to keep the pumpers pumping during the offseason. It’s already starting. But come November they’re still gonna be coached by Mediocre Mike. 

[Stuhoo 79,755]

5 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

If Tucker, Galloway, or Leal want to announce how much they got then they can but I won't spoil their payday by saying it but if you don't think they didn't get a raise then I don't know what to tell you.

I mean it's on record on a message board from one of the people who run a NIL collective saying they got a raise.

I'm not a fan of begrudging Leal or Galloway for getting a solid NIL raise upon return to IU:

1. It's a free market -- I don't really think anyone questions whether Leal and Gallo should say "yes" to the best deal possible.
2. (and more importantly) With a $6 million-ish NIL budget, bumping those two from (maybe) $100 k to $250k is a drop in the bucket that in no way will effect our ability to maximize the roster. Because these days? NIL is a real world thing that is used to maximize a roster. 

[Chris007 43,567]

Just now, Stuhoo said:

I'm not a fan of begrudging Leal or Galloway for getting a solid NIL raise upon return to IU:

1. It's a free market -- I don't really think anyone questions whether Leal and Gallo should say "yes" to the best deal possible.
2. (and more importantly) With a $6 million-ish NIL budget, bumping those two from (maybe) $100 k to $250k is a drop in the bucket that in no way will effect our ability to maximize the roster. Because these days? NIL is a real world thing that is used to maximize a roster. 

I would tell my kid to take it every day and twice on Sunday. But the whole prove to me they got a raise thing is getting out of hand. How many NIL deals have ever been released? 

[Golfman25 5,033]

19 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

We're going to need to pull out all the stops to get Hickman. He has 2-3 teams ahead of us because of our offense right now. He is taking our visit this weekend to come home and see family, probably to find out how much we are willing to pay but Nebraska and Cincy are both in front of us along with Kansas. 

That's one of the problems when you have to announce you have a bunch of money to spend to save your coach. Every prospect puts IU on their list to try to get more money. But you have to play the hand you're dealt. 

That is the problem the sunshine pumpers are ignoring.  Other than money, What makes IU an attractive place to play? You know what the offense looks like. And You’re signing up for a rebuild that you have zero idea who’s going to be there.  If you have other options why not take them.  

[Chris007 43,567]

2 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

That is the problem the sunshine pumpers are ignoring.  Other than money, What makes IU an attractive place to play? You know what the offense looks like. And You’re signing up for a rebuild that you have zero idea who’s going to be there.  If you have other options why not take them.  

Well so far we have recruited guys from Indiana so I guess are sales pitch is to come home to Indiana and represent your state. We have playing time to offer, a boatload of money and your family and friends will be close by. 

[IUFAN1976 2,794]

5 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

That is the problem the sunshine pumpers are ignoring.  Other than money, What makes IU an attractive place to play? You know what the offense looks like. And You’re signing up for a rebuild that you have zero idea who’s going to be there.  If you have other options why not take them.  

The toxic fans!

[Class of '66 Old Fart 83,997]

I would never think to ask any of you how much money you made last year or to post copies of your tax returns for all of btb to see.  Yet there seems to be a fair number of btb posters who feel any player who's receiving NIL money has an obligation to divulge that number.  NIL dollars were donated and the donors knew in advance what the money would be used for and that the individual donor was not going to be consulted on how much to pay player A or B.  I feel pretty certain we have NIL donors on btb.  Donors that don't like how the dollars are spent this year will simply reduce or cease future contributions.