Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[Stuhoo 80,453]

23 minutes ago, bigrod said:

It really is sad that IU basketball has devolved into this state. We are now the type of program where people gloat over winning the off-season. I'm pretty sure many of the same people were gloating last year because many thought we had also won that off-season.

Call me a skeptic, but I'll believe it when to translates to wins. I'm happy we are getting some good players to come here, but I can't say I'm surprised by it, nor do or think that it makes Woodson a better coach. He has had talent every year he has been here. He is the same coach who decided to sit on a scholly last year because we didn't need another guard.

The optimist in me thinks maybe this season has been enough to make Woody realize that his methods aren't working and he will change for next season. The realist thinks he is extremely bull-headed and/or tone deaf and will continue to pound the square peg into the round hole to prove to everyone his way is best, and then the excuses will ensue. I guess we will see...

I’ll give you some double-edged sword reason for hope: 

Our roster last season was really poorly constructed. Talent? Sure, but terrible balance. And even worse talent distribution and evaluation. Believing that X and Gunn could be key pieces was a season-killing bad decision. X could have been good as part of a deep guard rotation  but relying on him as a 30+ minute starter and shooter? Not good.

So Woody didn’t really try to pound a square peg into a round hole. His starting guards for the majority of the season were Cupps and Galloway. Turning into a volume three team with those guards? Now that would have been pounding a square peg into a round hole. The season was kinda screwed before it started and that’s on Woody, but the offense was about all we could do with the guards we were using.

[Hoosierfan2017 21,229]

21 minutes ago, bigrod said:

It really is sad that IU basketball has devolved into this state. We are now the type of program where people gloat over winning the off-season. I'm pretty sure many of the same people were gloating last year because many thought we had also won that off-season.

Call me a skeptic, but I'll believe it when to translates to wins. I'm happy we are getting some good players to come here, but I can't say I'm surprised by it, nor do or think that it makes Woodson a better coach. He has had talent every year he has been here. He is the same coach who decided to sit on a scholly last year because we didn't need another guard.

The optimist in me thinks maybe this season has been enough to make Woody realize that his methods aren't working and he will change for next season. The realist thinks he is extremely bull-headed and/or tone deaf and will continue to pound the square peg into the round hole to prove to everyone his way is best, and then the excuses will ensue. I guess we will see...

It’s nothing new. We’ve been that type of program for years. 

[Uspshoosier 45,571]

7 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

And even worse talent evaluation.

Players in the portal that have been ranked as transfers that have been targeted by the past 2 staffs 

Glenn-108

Essegian-138

Gunn-165

Nickel-186

Kaiser- 189

Bond- 199

Justin Taylor- 201

Morton- 223

Aire-277

Hart-  268

Whitt- 288

 

[Stuhoo 80,453]

6 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Players in the portal that have been ranked as transfers that have been targeted by the past 2 staffs 

Glenn-108

Essegian-138

Gunn-165

Nickel-186

Kaiser- 189

Bond- 199

Justin Taylor- 201

Morton- 223

Aire-277

Hart-  268

Whitt- 288

 

I was referring to the evaluation of the guards that we went into the season with; the thought that they were sufficient and could be a success.

[Feathery 4,005]

13 hours ago, Hornsby said:

Guys like that are popping up on twitter left and right now. Most all like to "say Woodson is cooking". For everyone you mute another pops up in your feed. 

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Almost like a company has been paid to do a social media campaign. It’s weird. 

[Uspshoosier 45,571]

Just now, Stuhoo said:

I was referring to the evaluation of the guards that we went into the season with; the thought that they were sufficient and could be a success.

I just wanted to show how bad talent evaluation at IU has been the last 2 coaching staffs.   Some of those kids were the staffs top targets at one point 

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,233]

I just wanted to show how bad talent evaluation at IU has been the last 2 coaching staffs.   Some of those kids were the staffs top targets at one point 

Right on USPS. It’s been remarkably bad. I’m not convinced Woody has been great either though.

 

Woody is doing things differently though where he is trying to recruit “starters” and then bench guys. So far, his bench guys have been mostly terrible and starters/freshman have been a little hit and miss.

 

The Ledlum primary target with the evaluation to hold with X and Gallo was a catastrophic decision to last season.

 

I mean, JHS, Reneau, Ware, Mgbako they had certain skills that were going to translate.

 

Most of everything else has been a miss.

 

 

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[IH8PU 220]

13 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Right on USPS. It’s been remarkably bad. I’m not convinced Woody has been great either though.

 

Woody is doing things differently though where he is trying to recruit “starters” and then bench guys. So far, his bench guys have been mostly terrible and starters/freshman have been a little hit and miss.

 

The Ledlum primary target with the evaluation to hold with X and Gallo was a catastrophic decision to last season.

 

I mean, JHS, Reneau, Ware, Mgbako they had certain skills that were going to translate.

 

Most of everything else has been a miss.

 

 

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Whatever happened to that GM idea I heard so much about last month. LOL

[Stuhoo 80,453]

14 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Right on USPS. It’s been remarkably bad. I’m not convinced Woody has been great either though.

 

Woody is doing things differently though where he is trying to recruit “starters” and then bench guys. So far, his bench guys have been mostly terrible and starters/freshman have been a little hit and miss.

 

The Ledlum primary target with the evaluation to hold with X and Gallo was a catastrophic decision to last season.

 

I mean, JHS, Reneau, Ware, Mgbako they had certain skills that were going to translate.

 

Most of everything else has been a miss.

 

 

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There’s been some good evals too. That’s what 13 scholarships are for; some misses—enough hits.

But the complete lack of hits in one group-the guard group last year was disastrous.

[bigrod 2,868]

2 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

I’ll give you some double-edged sword reason for hope: 

Our roster last season was really poorly constructed. Talent? Sure, but terrible balance. And even worse talent distribution and evaluation. Believing that X and Gunn could be key pieces was a season-killing bad decision. X could have been good as part of a deep guard rotation  but relying on him as a 30+ minute starter and shooter? Not good.

So Woody didn’t really try to pound a square peg into a round hole. His starting guards for the majority of the season were Cupps and Galloway. Turning into a volume three team with those guards? Now that would have been pounding a square peg into a round hole. The season was kinda screwed before it started and that’s on Woody, but the offense was about all we could do with the guards we were using.

I'm not disagreeing with any of this, but this is the exact same staff that put together that poorly constructed roster last season. This is the same staff that rested on their laurels instead of trying to add another guard with the available scholarship.

The square peg/round hole, in my eyes anyway, is the thought from Woody that his job as a coach is not to try to run plays to get his best shooters open. The thought that there is nothing wrong with his offense, defense, strategy, game planning, substitution patterns. My hope is that he has seen enough the last three years to clue him in that what he is doing needs to be adjusted to the college game. My fear is that, regardless of what the record shows, he doesn't see any issues and is willing to go down with the ship proving everyone wrong.

He has said that he wants to win now and bring banner number 6. But, when things didn't go as planned, instead of looking at what is working well and what is not working well and trying to learn from it, his response was to lash out at the fans for expecting too much from him and letting everyone know that he is doing his job. Those two things do not line up. Are you happy with mediocrity or do you want to win championships? Are you trying to get better at your job or is your best course of action to tell everyone you are doing great? Are you results driven or narrative driven?

We know Woody needs a lot of talent for even moderate success, so let's hope he gets it. I see nothing to show me next season will bring any kind of championship unless Woody is willing to put the work in to figure out how to make himself and his team better. If moderate success and getting players into the league every year is good enough, then so be it.

I remember a long time ago, we had a coach who spent the whole summer putting together an offense. I wonder how much time Woody and his staff will spend analyzing and adjusting. The square peg/round hole is that nothing needs to change except work harder.

[Golfman25 5,306]

9 minutes ago, bigrod said:

I'm not disagreeing with any of this, but this is the exact same staff that put together that poorly constructed roster last season. This is the same staff that rested on their laurels instead of trying to add another guard with the available scholarship.

The square peg/round hole, in my eyes anyway, is the thought from Woody that his job as a coach is not to try to run plays to get his best shooters open. The thought that there is nothing wrong with his offense, defense, strategy, game planning, substitution patterns. My hope is that he has seen enough the last three years to clue him in that what he is doing needs to be adjusted to the college game. My fear is that, regardless of what the record shows, he doesn't see any issues and is willing to go down with the ship proving everyone wrong.

He has said that he wants to win now and bring banner number 6. But, when things didn't go as planned, instead of looking at what is working well and what is not working well and trying to learn from it, his response was to lash out at the fans for expecting too much from him and letting everyone know that he is doing his job. Those two things do not line up. Are you happy with mediocrity or do you want to win championships? Are you trying to get better at your job or is your best course of action to tell everyone you are doing great? Are you results driven or narrative driven?

We know Woody needs a lot of talent for even moderate success, so let's hope he gets it. I see nothing to show me next season will bring any kind of championship unless Woody is willing to put the work in to figure out how to make himself and his team better. If moderate success and getting players into the league every year is good enough, then so be it.

I remember a long time ago, we had a coach who spent the whole summer putting together an offense. I wonder how much time Woody and his staff will spend analyzing and adjusting. The square peg/round hole is that nothing needs to change except work harder.

Mike Woodson doesn’t adjust to the college game.  The college game adjusts to Mike Woodson.  

[Hornsby 1,761]

Almost like a company has been paid to do a social media campaign. It’s weird. 

Yep

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[WayneFleekHoosier 48,233]

Almost like a company has been paid to do a social media campaign. It’s weird. 

I tend to agree. It’s sad, but it’s actually more frustrating that this fanbase just wants a winner to root for. The vitriol from some of those accounts makes me think some of them are directly connected to program to want to get back at people and dunk on people for landing good players. Seriously just dividing the fanbase even more.


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[Hovadipo 55,761]

7 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I tend to agree. It’s sad, but it’s actually more frustrating that this fanbase just wants a winner to root for. The vitriol from some of those accounts makes me think some of them are directly connected to program to want to get back at people and dunk on people for landing good players. Seriously just dividing the fanbase even more.


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Whether it’s a coordinated campaign (tend to not believe this) or just people with burners connected to the program banding together (I do believe it’s this…though I know the identity of some and can not find the connection to the program) you’re exactly right, it is awful for the fanbase and program. It accomplishes nothing and won’t be fixed by anything but winning and winning consistently. 

I’ve never really seen something like it - in the sports world, that is.

[Feathery 4,005]

27 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I tend to agree. It’s sad, but it’s actually more frustrating that this fanbase just wants a winner to root for. The vitriol from some of those accounts makes me think some of them are directly connected to program to want to get back at people and dunk on people for landing good players. Seriously just dividing the fanbase even more.


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My thought was they weren’t hired by the athletic department but rather it could be Woody or his agent hiring them.
 

Definitely could be a relative or someone close to the coaching staff. 

 

End of the day, Woody wins at a good clip this year and has a decent March then everyone will be supportive again. A good season next year and this past one looks more like a blip with a low point of 10-10 conference record. I’m skeptical but now that he is staying I’ll be supportive. 
 

heck the wife and I usually host Thanksgiving but are looking at going to the Bahamas for the Battle of Atlantis tournament to watch IU play and enjoy the beach over the holiday.  Lol

[Trish 11,542]

2 minutes ago, Feathery said:

My thought was they weren’t hired by the athletic department but rather it could be Woody or his agent hiring them.
 

Definitely could be a relative or someone close to the coaching staff. 

 

End of the day, Woody wins at a good clip this year and has a decent March then everyone will be supportive again. A good season next year and this past one looks more like a blip with a low point of 10-10 conference record. I’m skeptical but now that he is staying I’ll be supportive. 
 

heck the wife and I usually host Thanksgiving but are looking at going to the Bahamas for the Battle of Atlantis tournament to watch IU play and enjoy the beach over the holiday.  Lol

After seeing the coaching market this off-season, I’m not to confident Dolson would be able to field anyone good, let alone great. While I want Woodson fired tonight, the Kentucky search along with others has made it clear that Indiana isn’t going to hire an A, let alone a B+ hire next season. Unless Brad Steven’s wants to get back into it, I don’t know a single candidate that Indiana could land at this point.  

Assuming the Ballo kid commits and others, Indiana should make the dance. 

I’ve unfortunately accepted the fact that Indiana isn’t Indiana anymore. It’s an average to below average program that has money and a very supportive fan base. It’s Nebraska Football. 

[Hornsby 1,761]

I tend to agree. It’s sad, but it’s actually more frustrating that this fanbase just wants a winner to root for. The vitriol from some of those accounts makes me think some of them are directly connected to program to want to get back at people and dunk on people for landing good players. Seriously just dividing the fanbase even more.

 

 

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Anyone who doesn't support their narrative they attack viciously. I guess that's par for the course with twitter. But it's interesting they all kind of showed up at once.

 

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[Golfman25 5,306]

23 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

Anyone who doesn't support their narrative they attack viciously. I guess that's par for the course with twitter. But it's interesting they all kind of showed up at once.

 

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Gotta be a true fan you know. 

[Feathery 4,005]

23 minutes ago, Trish said:

After seeing the coaching market this off-season, I’m not to confident Dolson would be able to field anyone good, let alone great. While I want Woodson fired tonight, the Kentucky search along with others has made it clear that Indiana isn’t going to hire an A, let alone a B+ hire next season. Unless Brad Steven’s wants to get back into it, I don’t know a single candidate that Indiana could land at this point.  

Assuming the Ballo kid commits and others, Indiana should make the dance. 

I’ve unfortunately accepted the fact that Indiana isn’t Indiana anymore. It’s an average to below average program that has money and a very supportive fan base. It’s Nebraska Football. 

The fanbase helps. Nebraska with NIL and a competent coach will be good. Their recruiting has picked up over the last year. 

I agree about not going to get a top notch name, like a Pearl. Stevens will never happen imo. I’m friends with a former player of his and he doesn’t want to recruit high school kids anymore. 
 

But there will be some solid names. I do think Shrewsberry in an interesting name if he can have a good year at ND this year. And they have the potential to be a good team imo. See how Schertz does at SLU. Tonsoni on Assembly Call thinks Woodson will get 2 years no matter what and that will be enough time for Shrews and Schertz to prove a little more. 

[Trish 11,542]

2 minutes ago, Feathery said:

The fanbase helps. Nebraska with NIL and a competent coach will be good. Their recruiting has picked up over the last year. 

I agree about not going to get a top notch name, like a Pearl. Stevens will never happen imo. I’m friends with a former player of his and he doesn’t want to recruit high school kids anymore. 
 

But there will be some solid names. I do think Shrewsberry in an interesting name if he can have a good year at ND this year. And they have the potential to be a good team imo. See how Schertz does at SLU. Tonsoni on Assembly Call thinks Woodson will get 2 years no matter what and that will be enough time for Shrews and Schertz to prove a little more. 

Personally, I think Woodson gets “fired” / retires next spring if the season isn’t good. He needs to get pass the first weekend IMO. He’s going to have two freshman of the years on the team while having a McDonald’s AA. If Ballo joins then there’s no excuse outside of injuries that could prevent this team from advancing to the second weekend.