2023 SF/PF Mackenzie Mgbako to INDI-F’N-ANA

[Hardwood83 4,499]

6 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

This is the thing:  Parrish is hurt because his pal Archie failed.  But more than anything, he gives Indiana crap because it drives clicks.

Want to make sure that your article isn't read?  Say something -- anything whether it's positive or negative -- about Purdue. Because nationally, no one cares.  It's something that drives Purdue fans nuts because despite deserving more attention than Indiana by being the better team the past twenty years, the history is 'nice little regular season story, but do nothing on the national stage'.  

Ultimately, that title is going to stick until something changes it.  Doing well in the regular season won't change that.....nationally people don't care about that in Purdue's case because they've seen it before.   

This is absolutely true. No one outside of Indiana thinks about, notices or cares about Purdue at all. At all. They are the invisible man of college athletics. Vanilla wallflower that gets good grades, but never invited to the parties because know one knows they exist. 

[RaceToTheTop 23,610]

6 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

The national public interest in Purdue sports equals that of the sports teams from:

• Colorado State
• Oklahoma State
• Georgia Tech

One difference:  people know what state Colorado State, Oklahoma State and Georgia Tech are in.

[Stuhoo 75,564]

4 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

One difference:  people know what state Colorado State, Oklahoma State and Georgia Tech are in.

So they are West Rutger.

We share a conference with East Rutger and West Rutger.

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

7 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

One difference:  people know what state Colorado State, Oklahoma State and Georgia Tech are in.

If you polled non sports fans from the coasts I bet most would misspell Purdue. They just aren’t relevant 

[TheWatShot 13,335]

34 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

One difference:  people know what state Colorado State, Oklahoma State and Georgia Tech are in.

What's funny is how much this irritates Purdue fans. They act like everybody knows where Purdue is because they were good at football 20 years ago. 

[Dave from Dayton 2,582]

9 hours ago, DChoosier said:

Good post.

I do have a question in regards to the recruiting. I have read other posts that stated the administration restricted his recruiting but have never read what specifically they did. I didn’t like the years in which we had obvious needs but Archie would still leave one or two spots open. Did the administration make him do it? Not disputing your statements but  I’d just like to know what they actively did to impede him.

I have no inside information.  I was not privy to discussions and directions between the Athletic Department or the administration and Archie Miller.  My only sources of information were available in the media and online.

It seemed to me that in Tom Crean's last year or two, the recruiting and team building had fallen apart.  He was fired in spite of having two highly ranked teams and recognition in the media as being coach of the year twice.  Regardless, he did not get his teams into the elite eight and missed the NCAAT 5 years of 9.  He had been criticized for poor team fundamentals, poor defense, turnovers, arrests of players, poor recruiting of Indiana high school players, transfers, and overhype.  And Indiana lost to Purdue twice in one season. 

Welcome Archie Miller.  It is my opinion and only that...Coach Miller was to improve the academic progress rate, recruit Indiana high schools first, and once a scholarship is awarded then that student has a guaranteed spot until graduation.  Now, Archie Miller, go forth and win.  And pay no attention to the fact that Sean Miller was under FBI investigation for recruiting violations, etc.

Archie Miler's pack line defense and defense first were shocking to the players, the fans, the media after Tom Crean's fly to the hoop damn the turnovers full speed ahead faster and don't worry about defense we will outscore the opponents. Now do not clean house, Archie, the Student Bill of Rights makes clear you cannot do that.  If there is a fight in the locker room you cannot get the player(s) to transfer that are a disruption.  Plus that would hurt the APR.

And you cannot bring in your recruited PG.  That would be unsportsmanlike to the University of Dayton.  It just isn't done at Indiana.  Y'know.  We are squeaky clean, right?  

By the way, who is out there recruiting for Indiana's pack line defense?  That's an easy sell.  

Why did Archie Miller not use all of IU's scholarships?  Maybe he was waiting for better recruits or transfers to show up.  Maybe he was not willing to just fill positions because he couldn't then get them to transfer and it would hurt the APR.  I do not know.

Clearly, Archie Miller was in over his head.  Clearly, to me, the administration placed Archie Miller in position to fail.  It was literally and figuratively a no win situation.  

At Dayton, Archie Miller's team...one had only 7 or 8 scholarship players....and won the Horizon League.  A team effort based entirely on pack line defense and sharing the ball.  They were ball players on those teams.

At IU it was a disaster. Until the 3rd year...maybe...well, no...Covid.  No improvement.  Bye bye, Archie.

To put a positive spin on a very negative post...the administration is supporting Coach Woody...big time. Go forth and recruit and hang a new NCAAT Championship banner!

I was surprised and hopeful when Archie Miller was hired.  He had to go.  Glad the administration learned from all of it...and recognized a changing basketball game.

[str8baller 4,756]

54 minutes ago, Dave from Dayton said:

I was surprised and hopeful when Archie Miller was hired.  He had to go.  Glad the administration learned from all of it...and recognized a changing basketball game.

I wasn’t as high on him as some but I thought he was a solid hire, at least in terms of trying to get the next up and coming coach.  
 

I think you made some fair points in your post. He and Woody are definitely operating in different worlds. I’m not sure this “world” is much better for Archie’s personality, but that doesn’t change the fact he was thrown some curveballs that hurt him including the covid year.   
 

With that said, I think it was pretty clear Archie isn’t quite ready for a job of this magnitude yet. What Woody is doing recruiting-wise and tourney-wise is what you’re supposed to do at a place like IU. I looked it up one time and forget the exact stat, but in something like a ~100 yrs of IU basketball every coach has made the tourney or won a conf title except Archie and Watsons 2yr stint. In other words, “The floor” at IU is pretty high and Archie really couldn’t clear that hurdle.  
 

To come back to Mdbako, it really shouldn’t be all that surprising that IU wins a recruitment like his. But it is, because of where the program has fallen. But the head coach at IU is supposed to win some of these battles occasionally AND competently fill out the rest of the roster too.  
 

If we’re being really honest with ourselves, Woody is about one more first weekend tourney exit before fans start grumbling about his “ceiling “ and if we can go further. 

[Honkyman 1,670]

1 hour ago, str8baller said:

in something like a ~100 yrs of IU basketball every coach has made the tourney or won a conf title except Archie and Watsons 2yr stint.

Lou Watson was in his second season as the head coach when the IU basketball team won the Big Ten in 1967 (tied with Michigan State). IU lost to Virginia Tech in the NCAA Tournament Regional semifinals but beat the number 8 nationally ranked Tennessee. There have been 8 IU basketball coaches since the NCAA tournament began in 1939. Archie Miller is the only IU coach not to lead a team to a NCAA tournament, though there seems to be consensus that IU would have been invited in 2020 if not for the COVID pandemic.

[btownqb 8,253]

1 hour ago, str8baller said:

I wasn’t as high on him as some but I thought he was a solid hire, at least in terms of trying to get the next up and coming coach.  
 

I think you made some fair points in your post. He and Woody are definitely operating in different worlds. I’m not sure this “world” is much better for Archie’s personality, but that doesn’t change the fact he was thrown some curveballs that hurt him including the covid year.   
 

With that said, I think it was pretty clear Archie isn’t quite ready for a job of this magnitude yet. What Woody is doing recruiting-wise and tourney-wise is what you’re supposed to do at a place like IU. I looked it up one time and forget the exact stat, but in something like a ~100 yrs of IU basketball every coach has made the tourney or won a conf title except Archie and Watsons 2yr stint. In other words, “The floor” at IU is pretty high and Archie really couldn’t clear that hurdle.  
 

To come back to Mdbako, it really shouldn’t be all that surprising that IU wins a recruitment like his. But it is, because of where the program has fallen. But the head coach at IU is supposed to win some of these battles occasionally AND competently fill out the rest of the roster too.  
 

If we’re being really honest with ourselves, Woody is about one more first weekend tourney exit before fans start grumbling about his “ceiling “ and if we can go further. 

Shouldn't, but undoubtedly we will have to listen to that, if so. 

[iu eyedoc 1,635]

Way too many speculative excuses for Archie Miller being tossed around.

Kinda simple:

Archie Miller: Hey (insert top 50 recruits name here), welcome to IU, I am sure you have seen Assembly Hall and our great facilities, what do you think?

Recruit: Yeah coach I am blown away , this place is awesome! I have a few questions.

AM: Sure, shoot away.

Recruit: Funny you say that. I hope to play NBA basketball and understand it is a shooters game, but your team ranked 212th in FG%, 241st in three point shooting, and 298th from the line.

AM: True, those areas are not our strong suit, but basketball is also about defense.

Recruit: Oh yeah, that is another thing, how is playing a sagging pack line defense going to prepare me for the NBA?

AM: It's a team defense, but it's success will get you noticed.

Recruit: But you ranked 143rd in FG% against and  158th against the 3.  Also you pace of play was 278th. I could understand the low rankings if your teams were competitive, but I am struggling to see how bad offense, bad defense, and and archaic design can enhance my skills.

AM: Uh...well...Did you happen to see those banners?

[Class of '66 Old Fart 80,959]

Anybody seen Mackenzie Mgbako lately?

[8bucks 6,119]

2 hours ago, str8baller said:

If we’re being really honest with ourselves, Woody is about one more first weekend tourney exit before fans start grumbling about his “ceiling “ and if we can go further. 

Given Woody's age, that is a fair concern to have if that were to happen.  Time to strike while the iron is hot.  Better performance in the BTT could substitute for another early exit in the NCAAs given all the other positives with Woody but how long do we really expect Woody to be here?  5 more years?  Longer? If we knew we had him for 10 then i think I would be more patient for sure.

[go iu bb 4,789]

4 hours ago, Dave from Dayton said:

once a scholarship is awarded then that student has a guaranteed spot until graduation.

They were guaranteed scholarships until graduation, not roster spots. Big difference.

[str8baller 4,756]

1 hour ago, Honkyman said:

Lou Watson was in his second season as the head coach when the IU basketball team won the Big Ten in 1967 (tied with Michigan State). IU lost to Virginia Tech in the NCAA Tournament Regional semifinals but beat the number 8 nationally ranked Tennessee. There have been 8 IU basketball coaches since the NCAA tournament began in 1939. Archie Miller is the only IU coach not to lead a team to a NCAA tournament, though there seems to be consensus that IU would have been invited in 2020 if not for the COVID pandemic.

Yes, thank you for the correction. I was doing it from memory.  I just looked it up. 
 

Until Archie,  every coach here for at least 4yrs won a conf title and went to a tourney going back 100yrs. I pick 100 yrs because Dean was our first real long term coach.  I excluded, fill-ins Harry Good and Oliver since they were subbing in temporarily.  Sampson was only here 1.5yrs but notably still made a tourney. In other words, expectations should be high because historically IU is a place where competent coaches win.  
 

I should make a longer post on this but I’ll briefly note that Knight was the first coach who wasn’t a pretty good player at IU. And Knight was a player under a HoF coach at conf. rival OSU. Woody continues that tradition and you can make a case he understands the program in a historical sense and carries himself thusly. Does that help in recruitments with guys like Mbako and Ware? Who knows…it can’t hurt. Maybe Woody could sell recruits at any place, or maybe it helps that the place he’s selling kids on  he’s intimately familiar with and he truly loves. 

[ebridges24 2,287]

1 hour ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Anybody seen Mackenzie Mgbako lately?

Yes please

[IUFAN1976 2,254]

1 hour ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Anybody seen Mackenzie Mgbako lately?

Last I seen him he was with CMW.  But it’s not my day to watch him, sorry!  Check with Woody!

[Honkyman 1,670]

1 hour ago, str8baller said:

I was doing it from memory

It is easy to forget that IU won the Big Ten under Lou Watson considering IU's next three seasons were disappointing at best. But Watson did recruit pretty well, including four Parade All Americans--Joby Wright, George McGinnis, Steve Downing, and Ed Daniels. Point guard Vernon Payne was first team All Big Ten when IU was conference co-champs. Plus, Watson brought in some other pretty good players like John Ritter and Joe Cooke. Watson was also a really good player for IU--four year starter and leading scorer, 1st team All Big Ten.

[btownqb 8,253]

57 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

It is easy to forget that IU won the Big Ten under Lou Watson considering IU's next three seasons were disappointing at best. But Watson did recruit pretty well, including four Parade All Americans--Joby Wright, George McGinnis, Steve Downing, and Ed Daniels. Point guard Vernon Payne was first team All Big Ten when IU was conference co-champs. Plus, Watson brought in some other pretty good players like John Ritter and Joe Cooke. Watson was also a really good player for IU--four year starter and leading scorer, 1st team All Big Ten.

Easy to forget, I was -23 years old when he was coaching at IU! 

John Ritter was an actor. 

I hope my sarcasm can be felt through text. 

[ebridges24 2,287]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Easy to forget, I was -23 years old when he was coaching at IU! 

John Ritter was an actor. 

I hope my sarcasm can be felt through text. 

SO that makes you like 93 years old.

[Honkyman 1,670]

1 minute ago, ebridges24 said:

SO that makes you like 93 years old.

No, it makes him 75 years old or so.