JHS— NBA Bound

[Scotty R 1,897]

8 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Lol…crazy. But If expect that from someone with an NBA background. X’s and O’s in basketball has always been a ground up thing. Football used to be top down with the NFL driving innovation, but even that’s changed all the spread stuff has made its way to the NFL but was innovate in HS football in Texas and Arkansas.  
 

I literally can’t even believe I have to explain this on an IU board. NBA teams just started using motion offense more heavily in the last decade. Please someone, I’m begging you to explain to me how the motion offense was invented and developed in the pros. Bob Knight…. Big admirerer of pro basketball….lmao. 

I have not seen any motion offense in the NBA. You keep digging yourself farther and farther in the he with this non sense

[str8baller 4,755]

3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

It depends on what you mean by less varied? Are you referring to junk defenses like a triangle and 2 that high school coaches sometimes run? Ok, sure varied, but only because you'd get absolutely torched running garbage defense in the NBA.  

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/playoffs/2019/06/04/box-and-one-defense-nick-nurse-raptors-warriors-nba-finals/1346818001/ 
 

Bro…I thought you said you watched the NBA?

[BGleas 7,880]

2 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Execution does not equal complexity.  
 

But break it down for me. How is JHS’s role in Woodys offense antiqued with regard to the NBA?  
 

Let’s forget for a moment that Woody is a pro coach. Did JHS not initiate the offense with a high ball screen and the wings spread out like half the teams in the NBA?

I wasn't talking about execution, never mentioned execution. I was speaking on the actions and designs that NBA coaches run. They're way more sophisticated and it's not remotely close. 

I never mentioned anything about JHS. We ran some high ball screen action for him, mostly against Purdue and other defenses that played drop coverage, but there were times Woodson did run some very well designed sets to get JHS to that open mid range. 

What's your point?

[str8baller 4,755]

3 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

I have not seen any motion offense in the NBA. You keep digging yourself farther and farther in the he with this non sense

Like I said, you don’t watch the NBA then.  I’m not going to do your homework for you. But if you missed the 2012-era Spurs you missed some of the best motion offense ever run. 

[BGleas 7,880]

Just now, str8baller said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/playoffs/2019/06/04/box-and-one-defense-nick-nurse-raptors-warriors-nba-finals/1346818001/ 
 

Bro…I thought you said you watched the NBA?

Bro, not only watch it, worked in the league for 5 years. Been on the team planes, been in the locker rooms during games. 

That's one example, rarely works. There's a reason there was a big article about it rare. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,746]

The podcast in question that apparently started this whole thing called Woody’s offense 90’s NBA because of the type of actions they ran to feed the post as first options.  The pin down screens and the pick n roll with high usuage of the midrange. Versus a faster flowing offense with more transition, 3s, and guards getting to the rim to better fit the analytics. 

[Scotty R 1,897]

Just now, str8baller said:

Like I said, you don’t watch the NBA then.  I’m not going to do your homework for you. But if you missed the 2012-era Spurs you missed some of the best motion offense ever run. 

That is 11 years ago, just thinking a high school coach runs more sophisticated offense is total and utter non sense. You was arguing about Woodson and how he used JHS.

 

[Hoosierfan2017 19,887]

15 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Feel free to add substantive thoughts. Let’s start here:  

 

What specifically is antiquated about Woody’s offenses vis a vis the NBA with regard to JHS? That was the original claim. Be very specific. 

Hang on, gotta call up my former high school coach to get his thoughts first. 

[BGleas 7,880]

1 minute ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

The podcast in question that apparently started this whole thing called Woody’s offense 90’s NBA because of the type of actions they ran to feed the post as first options.  The pin down screens and the pick n roll with high usuage of the midrange. Versus a faster flowing offense with more transition, 3s, and guards getting to the rim to better fit the analytics. 

Exactly, and like we were saying yesterday, even Woodson has said he hasn't run his NBA style due to his personnel since getting to Indiana. 

This isn't some NBA system that Woodson has run here. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,746]

6 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Exactly, and like we were saying yesterday, even Woodson has said he hasn't run his NBA style due to his personnel since getting to Indiana. 

This isn't some NBA system that Woodson has run here. 

They specifically Tailor made it to fit JHS midrange strengths and TJD being the most consistent option on the team that needed touches almost every possession.  Those 2 took a high percentage of the shots by design and it was likely the best option based on personnel.  So, in effect, it was an antiquated style due to post strength, and midrange strengths. Really hoping with X and some shooters we open this MFer up and have some fun.   

Edited April 2, 2023 by WayneFleekHoosier

[str8baller 4,755]

4 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

the pick n roll with high usuage of the midrange.

Finally someone with some substance in this thread instead of simping for bad NBA coaching.  
 

So you’re off the opinion that JHS’s midrange game is due to schematics and from Woody’s offense and not JHS’s personal decision making/abilities?  Please explain…
 

Because I can find good NBA players that rely on the midrange shot as much as him. But it has nothing to do with scheme and everything to do with ability, or lack thereof (…mainly finishing at the rim). 

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,746]

1 minute ago, str8baller said:

Finally someone with some substance in this thread instead of simping for bad NBA coaching.  
 

So you’re off the opinion that JHS’s midrange game is due to schematics and from Woody’s offense and not JHS’s personal decision making/abilities?  Please explain…
 

Because I can find good NBA players that rely on the midrange shot as much as him. But it has nothing to do with scheme and everything to do with ability, or lack thereof (…mainly finishing at the rim). 

See my additional post above.  Answers this question 

[str8baller 4,755]

10 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Hang on, gotta call up my former high school coach to get his thoughts first. 

That’s what I figured.   

[str8baller 4,755]

12 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

That is 11 years ago,

So…. 
 

We’re you not alive and actively watching basketball 11 years ago? 

[str8baller 4,755]

2 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

See my additional post above.  Answers this question 

It doesn’t. What did they specifically do prioritize JHS shooting in the midrange?  Seems to me most of his screens started well out side the 3pt line. 
 

And how is it antiquated in comparison to high volume NBA midrange shooters like Chris Paul and Derozen? 
 

https://hoopshype.com/lists/chris-paul-kevin-durant-nikola-jokic-demar-derozan-midrange/ 
 

Derozen averages 70% of his shots made from the midrange. His coach? “Antiquated” NBA nobody Greg Popovich…

[JimmerNoe 475]

What a wild take this is lol. Imagine thinking the guy who teaches US History during school hours or is an insurance agent for his day job is running more sophisticated sets with 15-18 year olds vs incredibly well respected basketball minds at the absolute top of their field working with the top 1% of basketball players. This takes the cake.

 

No offense intended to HS basketball coaches with this post, they have to make a living somehow

[Scotty R 1,897]

10 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

They specifically Tailor made it to fit JHS midrange strengths and TJD being the most consistent option on the team that needed touches almost every possession.  Those 2 took a high percentage of the shots by design and it was likely the best option based on personnel.  So, in effect, it was an antiquated style due to post strength, and midrange strengths. Really hoping with X and some shooters we open this MFer up and have some fun.   

Woodson first year at the Knicks as HC they led the league in 3''s attempted and makes and was 5th 3 point percentage. I think they broke the record at the time for most 3 pointers shot in a season 

[Scotty R 1,897]

9 minutes ago, str8baller said:

So…. 
 

We’re you not alive and actively watching basketball 11 years ago? 

I have been watching basketball for over 50 years. Just stating that teams today doesn't run the kind of motion that RMK ran or at all. I loved the NBA for years and have lost interest in it the last 10 or so years.  I still watch a lot of the Pacers game and have seen enough to know they run more sophisticated offense than they do in high school.

[BGleas 7,880]

3 minutes ago, JimmerNoe said:

What a wild take this is lol. Imagine thinking the guy who teaches US History during school hours or is an insurance agent for his day job is running more sophisticated sets with 15-18 year olds vs incredibly well respected basketball minds at the absolute top of their field working with the top 1% of basketball players. This takes the cake.

 

No offense intended to HS basketball coaches with this post, they have to make a living somehow

I have a ton of respect for high school coaches, as I'm sure everyone here does. They give their blood, sweat and tears to the game and the develop of kids for very little in return in terms of money. 

With that said, this take that average high school coaches are better than NBA coaches is one of the most ludicrous takes I've ever read in something like 15 years of posting on these various message boards. 

[Scotty R 1,897]

6 minutes ago, str8baller said:

It doesn’t. What did they specifically do prioritize JHS shooting in the midrange?  Seems to me most of his screens started well out side the 3pt line. 
 

And how is it antiquated in comparison to high volume NBA midrange shooters like Chris Paul and Derozen? 
 

https://hoopshype.com/lists/chris-paul-kevin-durant-nikola-jokic-demar-derozan-midrange/ 
 

Derozen averages 70% of his shots made from the midrange. His coach? “Antiquated” NBA nobody Greg Popovich…

Derozen doesn't play for San Antonio, he now plays for the Bulls. He started with the Raptors so he used his mid range game well before playing for Popovich.