IUBB @ Michigan State - Tuesday, 2/21/23 @ 9:00 on ESPN

[coonhounds 8,690]

You're fed up with the narrative that the team is mentally or physically tired? Fair enough. But also to be fair?

• The players aren't saying that.
• The coaches sure as hell aren't saying that.

If some fan watching intently says it on a message board ? That doesn't make it true. It also may be true. 
But you know what the ultimate, real evidence is? The objective evidence:

1. In four years of Archie we had one (woulda been) barely-in tournament appearance. 
2. In year one of Woody we made the tournament, barely.
3. In year two we are a tournament lock and very likely a six seed or better. 

That Bill Parcells quote applies, "You are what your record says you are." And for the small-ish sample of the Mike Woodson era so far, our record is trending good, good, better, better. 

I am sorry I should have specified that I was talking about posters on this board selling the notion were always tired at the end of season. Davis used the excuse that he practiced them to hard so may had truth to it. Crean also had problems it seemed. I think Archie we were just tired all the time lol. I don't think their tired imo.

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[IU - Kaulie 1,866]

32 minutes ago, normandale97 said:

Definitely watching a different game. He has not proven he can shoot and finish. That’s just false. He’s shooting around 40% in big ten play and almost every shot is from 5 feet and in. He plays hard but the team drops off when he is on the court…hence the plus/minus. 

It’s hard to throw stats around in such a small sample size.  The truth is he has finished.  I would bet he is well over 50% for the season but again that’s meaningless.  The games I have been to he gifts us a real lift and spark.  I don’t see the drop off.  His biggest attribute right now is that the ball finds him.  He puts himself in position with his motor and how hard he plays.  If he were given more minutes I think he could score a lot of ‘junk points’ and that’s fine for right now as a freshman.  I’m impressed with him and think he’s a keeper.  I’m not saying he should be playing a ton but he should be getting the minutes Geronimo is getting.

[normandale97 203]

4 minutes ago, IU - Kaulie said:

It’s hard to throw stats around in such a small sample size.  The truth is he has finished.  I would bet he is well over 50% for the season but again that’s meaningless.  The games I have been to he gifts us a real lift and spark.  I don’t see the drop off.  His biggest attribute right now is that the ball finds him.  He puts himself in position with his motor and how hard he plays.  If he were given more minutes I think he could score a lot of ‘junk points’ and that’s fine for right now as a freshman.  I’m impressed with him and think he’s a keeper.  I’m not saying he should be playing a ton but he should be getting the minutes Geronimo is getting.

I think we both agree that he has a high potential upside but that’s about it. LOL.  I just completely disagree about how he has played this year. I don’t understand what you’re seeing and you don’t understand what I’m seeing. Not a big deal. Just message board back and forth stuff.  He should be shooting Mackenzie Holmes percentages with where his shots come from.  I’m honestly stunned that a player with his athleticism has missed so many wide open dunks and layups. Defensively he looks lost most of the time. He should be a fine player…but it won’t be this season. 

[Scotty R 1,897]

1 hour ago, Honkyman said:

Pretty pessimistic view of Coach Woodson's ability to hold his team together, imo.

Might not be Woodson not being able to keep the team together but rather mutual agreement. With Geronimo his family has wanted him to be closer to home the last couple of seasons so maybe that will be a factor.

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

You win some you lose some. You win most (at home) and lost most (on road to teams with a pulse).

This team goes as TJD goes. I love TJD as a player and can't imagine what this program would have been over the last 4 years without him. However, I believe he and we lack in a few extremely important areas.

I've said it and stand by it - TJD isn't a leader. It's not natural for him. He elevated his game for a stretch that led us to wins. That's huge. XJ (good or bad) is more of a natural leader. JHS has some of it but not sure how much it gets through with age and the chemistry of the team. It's been discussed you don't have to agree with it.

I would have liked to have seen some baseline set by now of what is expected. I feel even in some wins our intensity level was lacking. As USPS says you're the team in between your 5 best/worst performances. I've seen more than 5 that lack in the intensity level of what should be expected. If others are cool with that effort/intensity level, awesome, I don't think we're there and that's something we should coming up towards the end of the second year of a new head coach.

We're not playing a modern brand of basketball. It's won us games but I don't think we're near the potential of this team. By percentage, we're a good shooting team from deep, probably close to top 10% in the nation/conference. It's fantastic but it matters little when you don't take enough for it to impact the game. (this is modern basketball)

On the other end of the court, teams shoot too good of a percentage on more attempts which equalizes our advantage with TJD down low. Our wings are typically a step slow which has led to giving up too many straight line drives (Northwestern at home) but also forces us to over help which teams can exploit with a decent pass and a really good look.

Basically, we're winning the 2 point battle with opponents winning the 3 point battle. Sometimes our 2 point battle wins the war and sometimes opponent's 3 point battle wins the war with less talent. Imagine an offense that has TJD operating down low with us taking more 3PAs. That would be more of a modern offense and a much high ceiling.

If we can overpower teams in the tourney while they don't have good guards and wings that can exploit our weakness we'll win some games. Otherwise, TJD will have to come over to attempt to block shots or we'll get in rotations giving up too many open looks. We've seen a few teams or players get hot and bury us from deep. When you give up those clean looks early it seems they can't miss after. It's not a winning recipe in a one and done tourney.

[mbredenk101 524]

You win some you lose some. You win most (at home) and lost most (on road to teams with a pulse).
This team goes as TJD goes. I love TJD as a player and can't imagine what this program would have been over the last 4 years without him. However, I believe he and we lack in a few extremely important areas.
I've said it and stand by it - TJD isn't a leader. It's not natural for him. He elevated his game for a stretch that led us to wins. That's huge. XJ (good or bad) is more of a natural leader. JHS has some of it but not sure how much it gets through with age and the chemistry of the team. It's been discussed you don't have to agree with it.
I would have liked to have seen some baseline set by now of what is expected. I feel even in some wins our intensity level was lacking. As USPS says you're the team in between your 5 best/worst performances. I've seen more than 5 that lack in the intensity level of what should be expected. If others are cool with that effort/intensity level, awesome, I don't think we're there and that's something we should coming up towards the end of the second year of a new head coach.
We're not playing a modern brand of basketball. It's won us games but I don't think we're near the potential of this team. By percentage, we're a good shooting team from deep, probably close to top 10% in the nation/conference. It's fantastic but it matters little when you don't take enough for it to impact the game. (this is modern basketball)
On the other end of the court, teams shoot too good of a percentage on more attempts which equalizes our advantage with TJD down low. Our wings are typically a step slow which has led to giving up too many straight line drives (Northwestern at home) but also forces us to over help which teams can exploit with a decent pass and a really good look.
Basically, we're winning the 2 point battle with opponents winning the 3 point battle. Sometimes our 2 point battle wins the war and sometimes opponent's 3 point battle wins the war with less talent. Imagine an offense that has TJD operating down low with us taking more 3PAs. That would be more of a modern offense and a much high ceiling.
If we can overpower teams in the tourney while they don't have good guards and wings that can exploit our weakness we'll win some games. Otherwise, TJD will have to come over to attempt to block shots or we'll get in rotations giving up too many open looks. We've seen a few teams or players get hot and bury us from deep. When you give up those clean looks early it seems they can't miss after. It's not a winning recipe in a one and done tourney.

Good post. Hopefully, the team will find a way to have some post-season success.

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[RaceToTheTop 23,571]

1 hour ago, Scotty R said:

Might not be Woodson not being able to keep the team together but rather mutual agreement. With Geronimo his family has wanted him to be closer to home the last couple of seasons so maybe that will be a factor.

And in both years, he didn't transfer despite knowing he was not the starter.

[RaceToTheTop 23,571]

1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

 

We're not playing a modern brand of basketball. It's won us games but I don't think we're near the potential of this team. By percentage, we're a good shooting team from deep, probably close to top 10% in the nation/conference. It's fantastic but it matters little when you don't take enough for it to impact the game. (this is modern basketball)

 

It's been a trade off for the most part.  TJD is good enough to get a lot of high percentage shots down low.  But a team that gets hot from three becomes hard to beat -- 40% from three will match 60% from two.  The interior game might draw more fouls, but a team shooting a lot of threes also tends to get a lot of long offensive rebounds.  But taking a lot of threes can also shoot you out of a game if you aren't hitting.  I.e., watching the Iowa/Wisky game and Iowa is shooting themselves to a loss.

For the year, IU is in the 96% percentile of two point attempts per game but only the 4th percentile of three pointers taken per game.  Shooting percentiles are solid in both cases -- 53.4% from two, good for the 84% percentile, 38.0% from three, good for 95% percentile, and an overall effective percent of 54.4%, good for 93% percentile.  Where IU has lacked is getting to the line given the amount of shots they are taken inside the arc.  TJD gets there enough, but that's about it.  That's an area where X would help as opposed to JHS.  JHS has a superior mid range game to X, but X drives and dishes inside better, and those types of plays draw fouls.

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

It's been a trade off for the most part.  TJD is good enough to get a lot of high percentage shots down low.  But a team that gets hot from three becomes hard to beat -- 40% from three will match 60% from two.  The interior game might draw more fouls, but a team shooting a lot of threes also tends to get a lot of long offensive rebounds.  But taking a lot of threes can also shoot you out of a game if you aren't hitting.  I.e., watching the Iowa/Wisky game and Iowa is shooting themselves to a loss.
For the year, IU is in the 96% percentile of two point attempts per game but only the 4th percentile of three pointers taken per game.  Shooting percentiles are solid in both cases -- 53.4% from two, good for the 84% percentile, 38.0% from three, good for 95% percentile, and an overall effective percent of 54.4%, good for 93% percentile.  Where IU has lacked is getting to the line given the amount of shots they are taken inside the arc.  TJD gets there enough, but that's about it.  That's an area where X would help as opposed to JHS.  JHS has a superior mid range game to X, but X drives and dishes inside better, and those types of plays draw fouls.

Not having the lane clogged when your point drives helps getting to the rim. JHS can get there, XJ would help but would also be driving into two post defenders. Again, modern basketball.

[Honkyman 1,670]

8 hours ago, Scotty R said:

Might not be Woodson not being able to keep the team together but rather mutual agreement. With Geronimo his family has wanted him to be closer to home the last couple of seasons so maybe that will be a factor.

Some of you dour "fans" predicted Geronimo was gone after last season. "Mutual agreement"...what are you talking about? This is totally devoid of any factual basis.

[Chris007 42,066]

2 hours ago, Honkyman said:

Some of you dour "fans" predicted Geronimo was gone after last season. "Mutual agreement"...what are you talking about? This is totally devoid of any factual basis.

Has Geronimo entered the portal every year he's been at IU? I believe the answer is yes. So why would it be surprising if he entered the portal again after the season? His family made it known last year they wanted him closer to home. 

[Hoosierfan1901 5,795]

21 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Has Geronimo entered the portal every year he's been at IU? I believe the answer is yes. So why would it be surprising if he entered the portal again after the season? His family made it known last year they wanted him closer to home. 

And it will happen again when this season is said and done 

[Hovadipo 52,926]

36 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Has Geronimo entered the portal every year he's been at IU? I believe the answer is yes. So why would it be surprising if he entered the portal again after the season? His family made it known last year they wanted him closer to home. 

I don’t think he officially did last year, but he announced he was coming back unprompted which is all we really needed to know about the rumors that he was considering leaving. 

[Chris007 42,066]

1 minute ago, Hovadipo said:

I don’t think he officially did last year, but he announced he was coming back unprompted which is all we really needed to know about the rumors that he was considering leaving. 

Actually, that sounds right. 

[HoosierHoopster 6,027]

2 hours ago, Chris007 said:

Actually, that sounds right. 

Yeah I'd already said the rumors were just board talk, he did not go portal last year, and I honestly don't know why some think he was leaving, he wasn't.

What actually happened is that after he had a really strong NCAA tourney run, and Woodson publicly said he "discovered him on the bench" (which I thought was kind of funny), he knew he was coming back to a likely bigger role, but he also knew Malik was coming in, so he put in some work to seek to grow his game to seek to allow him to -- at times -- play more of a wing role (not move to the wing as the board kept speculating about), as he himself said during the summer interview. Board talk. 

[btownqb 8,235]

16 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I'm still wondering why he's not on the floor. If anything, he's easily our best swing passer. Ball never sticks.

He's not very good? Love AL. But, he's not very good. 

[btownqb 8,235]

15 hours ago, normandale97 said:

Definitely watching a different game. He has not proven he can shoot and finish. That’s just false. He’s shooting around 40% in big ten play and almost every shot is from 5 feet and in. He plays hard but the team drops off when he is on the court…hence the plus/minus. 

Kaleb Banks has shot 12 shots in conference play....... that isn't even close to enough data to know basically anything. 

For the season he is shooting 61% from 2. 

But, he can keep the ball in front of him defensively and then rebound and run off of that. He also cuts well. 

[OliviaPope40 6,295]

I don't mind so much about them bringing up what happened and talking about how do you handle the situation and the tough conversation that follows not only as a coach but also has a mentor and a parent. I may not like Izzo has a coach but I respect him outside of the game every coach as their faults. 

[btownqb 8,235]

1 minute ago, OliviaPope40 said:

I don't mind so much about them bringing up what happened and talking about how do you handle the situation and the tough conversation that follows not only as a coach but also has a mentor and a parent. I may not like Izzo has a coach but I respect him outside of the game every coach as their faults. 

Google Keith Appling and Adrian Payne. I am not going to tell you what your opinion should be, but I don't have an ounce of respect for Izzo, MSU, or Dantonio. 

[Hovadipo 52,926]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Google Keith Appling and Adrian Payne. I am not going to tell you what your opinion should be, but I don't have an ounce of respect for Izzo, MSU, or Dantonio. 

Izzo's a great speaker, emotional leader, or whatever you want to call it. But as Stuhoo said the other day after Appling's guilty plea, it's a pretty disturbing pattern. He had freakin' Miles Bridges sitting behind his bench Tuesday night lol. I mean, damn.