IUBB @ Michigan State - Tuesday, 2/21/23 @ 9:00 on ESPN

[RaceToTheTop 23,572]

3 hours ago, Chris007 said:

I read somewhere this morning, maybe on here that the Big Ten is 6-27 on the road this month. It's hard to win on the road this time of year. 

I’d be willing to bet 2 or 3 of those 6 were at Minnesota.

[Chris007 42,066]

Just wait till we get Xavier Jones back for the tournament. We'll be a different team. 

[realTomCrean 1,470]

6 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

I’d be willing to bet 2 or 3 of those 6 were at Minnesota.

Yes, they are 0-3 at home in February

[realTomCrean 1,470]

1 minute ago, Chris007 said:

Just wait till we get Xavier Jones back for the tournament. We'll be a different team. 

Late season transfer?!

[RaceToTheTop 23,572]

43 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I don't want to be that broken record guy but it's kinda hard to avoid. I like Kaleb's upside but the shiny new thing seems to always rear its head. He has barely played. He has shown good flashes, especially the energy, almost no one else played with energy last night. But JG has shown exceptional contributions in extended time including, particularly, our strongest run this season when we were beating teams by 13-plus. Then he got injured. Then he has been slowly brought back and hasn't played great. But no, you don't write him off for that, and to call for a frosh who's had limited minutes is just that, to call for a frosh who's had limited minutes. Meanwhile, Race was God awful for much of last night, far from rebounds, watched players grab the ball and run down the court, and looked as lethargic as anyone. We have pieces on this team that include Race, JG and at times Banks, and I think the fairest statement is that it's up to the staff to identify when one of them is not playing hard or well and to insert the other guy(s) to up the team's play. My issue is that happens at best sporadically. 

So this doesn't come across too negatively, I'd add one thing I liked seeing last night was some tinkering with the forwards -- there were some minutes when TJD, Malik and JG played together, that was 1st half when we were doing ok, and I think (but would have to go back and check as not sure) there was also a lineup in the 1st with TJD, Race and JG, or maybe it was Malik, Race and JG. 

I am probably the biggest JG fan here but he hasn’t shown he can really play the 3.  Doesn’t handle it well enough.

Best position to put him in to be a 3 would be as a slasher IF both JHS and X were healthy to cut back on the amount he handles the ball and make him more of a rim runner.

[Chris007 42,066]

1 minute ago, realTomCrean said:

Late season transfer?!

That's what they called him on TV last night

[RaceToTheTop 23,572]

2 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Just wait till we get Xavier Jones back for the tournament. We'll be a different team. 

Actually, what until all of Xavier’s players transfer to IU late this year.

[normandale97 203]

I’m not sure why people are talking about Banks and his defense. He’s been a pretty bad defender in almost every scenario he has played…especially in the big10. He’s consistently lost and out of position. Woody gave him a run against a Purdue and he gave up 2 baskets and missed a dunk/layup in a very short stretch. Also, was in for the horrible stretch against Illinois Saturday. He’s just not there as a big10 caliber player right now and his lack of minutes reflect that.  His plus/minus is one of the worst on the team. He is shooting 40% in conference play and most shots are inside 5 feet. I guess I’m watching a different game than most others besides the coaches. 

[Chris007 42,066]

7 minutes ago, normandale97 said:

I’m not sure why people are talking about Banks and his defense. He’s been a pretty bad defender in almost every scenario he has played…especially in the big10. He’s consistently lost and out of position. Woody gave him a run against a Purdue and he gave up 2 baskets and missed a dunk/layup in a very short stretch. Also, was in for the horrible stretch against Illinois Saturday. He’s just not there as a big10 caliber player right now and his lack of minutes reflect that.  His plus/minus is one of the worst on the team. He is shooting 40% in conference play and most shots are inside 5 feet. I guess I’m watching a different game than most others besides the coaches. 

Because we have to talk about someone. The starters look tired, Bates and Geronimo are playing terrible so Banks is next.

[HoosierHoopster 6,030]

21 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

I am probably the biggest JG fan here but he hasn’t shown he can really play the 3.  Doesn’t handle it well enough.

Best position to put him in to be a 3 would be as a slasher IF both JHS and X were healthy to cut back on the amount he handles the ball and make him more of a rim runner.

Oh I agree -- I was interested this past summer to see if he could show the growth of handle in particular to get some real 'wing' time this season, but it's clear he isn't at a wing-level handle. Also agree on the rim-runner thoughts.

One related thing he has improved on significantly is his perimeter D, it's markedly better than last season, he's shown better ability than other forwards on the team to track his man from perimeter to rim, on the run / cut, and block or alter the shot at rim -- has had some really nice defensive sequences where his D perimeter-in played a role in the team getting the W. Another way of looking at his role in the 3-forward lineup is for rebounding and D as opposed to floor-spacing and offensive play generally.

[HoosierHoopster 6,030]

11 minutes ago, normandale97 said:

I’m not sure why people are talking about Banks and his defense. He’s been a pretty bad defender in almost every scenario he has played…especially in the big10. He’s consistently lost and out of position. Woody gave him a run against a Purdue and he gave up 2 baskets and missed a dunk/layup in a very short stretch. Also, was in for the horrible stretch against Illinois Saturday. He’s just not there as a big10 caliber player right now and his lack of minutes reflect that.  His plus/minus is one of the worst on the team. He is shooting 40% in conference play and most shots are inside 5 feet. I guess I’m watching a different game than most others besides the coaches. 

For me it's the shiny new thing syndrome. Don't get me wrong, I see a lot of potential in his game, his athleticism, his energy, length and what I see as starting to show a knack for getting to the right spot for boards. But he's raw, he has not shown that he's ready to play significant or key minutes, and it's just the same shiny new thing stuff that comes up almost every season, and invariably when a player or two aren't playing great. Remember when people were calling for Leal to have significant minutes and even run point? Or name one of the several others. Banks is not there, but he has good potential, and should be getting some time as earned in practice.

[AKHoosier 6,568]

22 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

I am probably the biggest JG fan here but he hasn’t shown he can really play the 3.  Doesn’t handle it well enough.

Best position to put him in to be a 3 would be as a slasher IF both JHS and X were healthy to cut back on the amount he handles the ball and make him more of a rim runner.

Does the staff not have any game tape of Troy Williams to show JG what he could do?

His whole offense was cutting straight to the basket on the baseline and dunking a lob from Yogi, no reason Geronimo can't be good for a few of those per game.

[JSHoosier 19,559]

18 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Because we have to talk about someone. The starters look tired, Bates and Geronimo are playing terrible so Banks is next.

Unfortunately the bench has been questionable to say the least.

[HoosierFan1994 4,609]

48 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Just wait till we get Xavier Jones back for the tournament. We'll be a different team. 

That play by play guy was horrible.. so many incorrect facts last night. I actually felt bad for Bilas. 

[Hovadipo 52,927]

4 minutes ago, HoosierFan1994 said:

That play by play guy was horrible.. so many incorrect facts last night. I actually felt bad for Bilas. 

He sounded like a guy trying to sound like Gus Johnson. He was awful.

[normandale97 203]

29 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

For me it's the shiny new thing syndrome. Don't get me wrong, I see a lot of potential in his game, his athleticism, his energy, length and what I see as starting to show a knack for getting to the right spot for boards. But he's raw, he has not shown that he's ready to play significant or key minutes, and it's just the same shiny new thing stuff that comes up almost every season, and invariably when a player or two aren't playing great. Remember when people were calling for Leal to have significant minutes and even run point? Or name one of the several others. Banks is not there, but he has good potential, and should be getting some time as earned in practice.

I completely understand this argument. You see a kid with potential and you want to see more…I get it. However, I see so many people on the cesspool we call Twitter…calling for Banks and Gunn…the fact of the matter is…they just aren’t ready. You see the Banks dunk at the end of the half vs Purdue and get excited. Yet you forget about his multiple defense breakdowns and all his missed layups and dunks this year, the offensive boards given up against Illinois, etc. He’s a very raw talent.  When X returns…I hope we see a rotation of 7 in the tourney and no more than that…unless Geronimo flips the switch and plays like he did at the end of the year last year. 

[coonhounds 8,690]

I hate to see the were tired narrative yet again this year. If our guys are tired yet again then we need a better trainer or different practice routine. Very few other schools have this excuse yet every year since davis it seems to be our go to. Ridiculous imo. If they are mentally or physically tired we're recruiting the wrong type of kids. Tjd can be tired but nobody else. If tjd is actually tired then blame that on coaching staff and bench not being anywhere near prepared to give him a rest. We need guys who can come in and just do their role. Defend take care of the ball and hustle. We don't seem to have that

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[HoosierFan1994 4,609]

1 hour ago, Hovadipo said:

He sounded like a guy trying to sound like Gus Johnson. He was awful.

At one point IU had just made a layup and Michigan State responded and he said "Michigan State on an 8-0 run". People make mistakes but I don't like it when it's that obvious. 

[Dave from Dayton 2,581]

40 minutes ago, coonhounds said:

I hate to see the were tired narrative yet again this year. If our guys are tired yet again then we need a better trainer or different practice routine. Very few other schools have this excuse yet every year since davis it seems to be our go to. Ridiculous imo. If they are mentally or physically tired we're recruiting the wrong type of kids. Tjd can be tired but nobody else. If tjd is actually tired then blame that on coaching staff and bench not being anywhere near prepared to give him a rest. We need guys who can come in and just do their role. Defend take care of the ball and hustle. We don't seem to have that

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk
 

How about TJD is bumped and knocked and banged around in each and every game including at MSU where it was somewhat chippy.  Players just didn't finish their shots.  In addition, MSU went 10 consecutive minutes in the first half without getting a foul called on them.  Add to that Shifino was taken out for 2 fouls and our porous defense got tattooed with no offense at all.  

Not tired.  Just got punched in the mouth on the road and shooting bricks.  Then in the 2nd half we didn't get the breaks like we have in a few games.

Sometimes you get the elevator...And this is the tough homestretch in the tough B1G.

And maybe Izzo does know how to motivate and keep players in when things are clicking.

That plus Coach Woody is in his 2nd year at IU.  Can he have his team perfectly matched up with each and every opponent so as to take advantage?  And these are student-athletes that have issues and feelings and are all different.  

Fans say the strangest things about their teams and players.  It really doesn't mean they know.

I just enjoy the games and the matchups.  And cheer for old IU.  (And hope they hang a few more NC banners soon.)  But other teams want their teams to win too.  Kind of makes it difficult.

[Stuhoo 75,561]

38 minutes ago, coonhounds said:

I hate to see the were tired narrative yet again this year. If our guys are tired yet again then we need a better trainer or different practice routine. Very few other schools have this excuse yet every year since davis it seems to be our go to. Ridiculous imo. If they are mentally or physically tired we're recruiting the wrong type of kids. Tjd can be tired but nobody else. If tjd is actually tired then blame that on coaching staff and bench not being anywhere near prepared to give him a rest. We need guys who can come in and just do their role. Defend take care of the ball and hustle. We don't seem to have that

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk
 

You're fed up with the narrative that the team is mentally or physically tired? Fair enough. But also to be fair?

• The players aren't saying that.
• The coaches sure as hell aren't saying that.

If some fan watching intently says it on a message board ? That doesn't make it true. It also may be true. 

But you know what the ultimate, real evidence is? The objective evidence:

1. In four years of Archie we had one (woulda been) barely-in tournament appearance. 
2. In year one of Woody we made the tournament, barely.
3. In year two we are a tournament lock and very likely a six seed or better. 

That Bill Parcells quote applies, "You are what your record says you are." And for the small-ish sample of the Mike Woodson era so far, our record is trending good, good, better, better.