IUBB vs Rutger aka/Ruger - Tuesday, 2/7/23 @ 6:30 on BTN

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,751]

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

Zero chance you'd take a 6'6 215lbs 19 yr old PG that shoots 40% from 3 in the first round? Like not even 30th overall? 

Interesting 

 

50 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

If he plays well in the BTT and the NCAA tourney, that is where he will make his money from being a 1st round pick. If he stinks it up then I see him coming back. He's making some good money right now, and only going to be making more next year here. 

He's FG% is my issue.  It's pretty bad.  He's shown he can hit the 3 but I'm not sure those numbers aren't inflated a little by sample size due to FG/FT%.  He's got everything else it seems.  So, I agree with Chris he can soar with a strong March performance.  I can see an argument either direction, and i'm clearly not an NBA exec but i'd want to see improved FG% from him.  

He will be interesting to follow in mocks.  

[Chips&Dipo 1,448]

To the Race conversation, whatever positive qualities people think he provides at the end of the game seems to be nullified by his anemic ability on the offensive side. He clogs the lane for TJD, doesn't pass well (both around the perimeter and feeding the post), and his shot is atrocious. He doesn't move well without the ball either. Malik gets more chances from dump downs from Trayce and offside rebounding, just because he moves better without the ball. Hid defense and rebounding also hasn't been very good (for the majority of the game, some okay stuff at the end of the Purdue game but that should be expected from a super super senior). His body language is bad, which I don't know if that is from coming back from an injury or because he knows he isn't playing well. I think he is an important piece moving forward, but the coaching staff needs to figure him out, whether that's playing him off the bench or having a conversation with him to figure out what's wrong.

[JSHoosier 19,568]

2 minutes ago, Chips&Dipo said:

To the Race conversation, whatever positive qualities people think he provides at the end of the game seems to be nullified by his anemic ability on the offensive side. He clogs the lane for TJD, doesn't pass well (both around the perimeter and feeding the post), and his shot is atrocious. He doesn't move well without the ball either. Malik gets more chances from dump downs from Trayce and offside rebounding, just because he moves better without the ball. Hid defense and rebounding also hasn't been very good (for the majority of the game, some okay stuff at the end of the Purdue game but that should be expected from a super super senior). His body language is bad, which I don't know if that is from coming back from an injury or because he knows he isn't playing well. I think he is an important piece moving forward, but the coaching staff needs to figure him out, whether that's playing him off the bench or having a conversation with him to figure out what's wrong.

I would've preferred they bring him off the bench to ease him up to speed instead of just putting him right back in the starting lineup.

[Chris007 42,106]

3 minutes ago, Chips&Dipo said:

To the Race conversation, whatever positive qualities people think he provides at the end of the game seems to be nullified by his anemic ability on the offensive side. He clogs the lane for TJD, doesn't pass well (both around the perimeter and feeding the post), and his shot is atrocious. He doesn't move well without the ball either. Malik gets more chances from dump downs from Trayce and offside rebounding, just because he moves better without the ball. Hid defense and rebounding also hasn't been very good (for the majority of the game, some okay stuff at the end of the Purdue game but that should be expected from a super super senior). His body language is bad, which I don't know if that is from coming back from an injury or because he knows he isn't playing well. I think he is an important piece moving forward, but the coaching staff needs to figure him out, whether that's playing him off the bench or having a conversation with him to figure out what's wrong.

We are 5-1 since his return. I don't mind him starting but around the 13-14 minute mark, it's time for Malik to come in for him. I love the senior leadership but you can tell he's just not 100% yet. That brace looks to weight 10 lbs itself. 

[HoosierFan1994 4,609]

2 hours ago, Dave from Dayton said:

Stop and start the above video.  It is clear that Paul stuck his foot in front of TJD.  Looks intentional.  TJD stumbles and casts a look back at Paul Mulcahy...but kept focus on the win and that was that.

Reports of a Rutger fan forum state that there is a history of Paul Mulcahy doing such stuff.  I do know that a year ago he and XJ mixed it up.  Not sure, but XJ reportedly and PM had some shoving and Paul got ejected for swinging at XJ.

Earlier last night, there was one instance of a Rutger player tripping and holding an IU player down.  It wasn't called and IU lost the ball. The game was chippy.  

IU kept composed and did what was necessary to win.  Glad IU did not fall for the rutger stuff that is not good sportsmanship.  

Reports of IU fans getting on PM's twitter and dissing him are unfortunate, if true.  

 

He needs to be suspended a game. That was childish. With him doing it to Trayce that doesn't help his cause. I'm sure Woodson and company was on the phone with the B1G first thing this morning. 

[HoosierFan1994 4,609]

8 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

We are 5-1 since his return. I don't mind him starting but around the 13-14 minute mark, it's time for Malik to come in for him. I love the senior leadership but you can tell he's just not 100% yet. That brace looks to weight 10 lbs itself. 

Bingo. I don't care as much about who starts. It's who finishes. Race I think is seeing too many minutes but I feel he's made some big plays towards the end of the last few games. 

[go iu bb 4,789]

1 hour ago, AKHoosier said:

Lol don't you remember how hard Coach K came down on Grayson Allen? He was suspended indefinitely, which turned out to be a grand total of 1 game.

Coach K sure was a tough disciplinarian. 

[RaceToTheTop 23,615]

7 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

We are 5-1 since his return. I don't mind him starting but around the 13-14 minute mark, it's time for Malik to come in for him. I love the senior leadership but you can tell he's just not 100% yet. That brace looks to weight 10 lbs itself. 

Of note:

During this last eight game stretch:

Race (6 games):  120 minutes, 8 of 26 from the field, 0 of 8 from three,  of 16 of 18 from the line, 19 rebounds, 7 assists, 4 blocks, 5 steals, 9 turnovers, 32 points.

Reneau (8 games):  131 minutes, 24 of 40 from the field, 1 of 1 from three, 12 of 14 from the line, 33 rebounds, 7 assists, 1 block, 1 steal, 7 turnovers, 61 points.  Still has foul issues, 24 fouls.

Geronimo (5 games):  79 minutes, 13 of 23 from the field, 2 of 4 from three, 2 of 3 from the line, 22 rebounds, 2 assists, 5 blocks, 1 steal, 8 turnovers, 30 points.

Combined totals in 8 games:  330 minutes (so 41.3 per game -- basically all the power forward minutes + a minute at the 5):  45 of 89 from the field (51%), 3 of 13 from three (23%), 30 of 35 from the line (86%), 74 rebounds, 16 assists, 10 blocks, 7 steals, 24 turnovers, 123 points.

So IU has been getting 15.4 points, 9.3 rebounds, and 2 assists per game out of the power forward position.

One thing to keep in mind is that I believe that even though Race has been the worst of the three offensively in this stretch, I believe our defensive PPP has been much better with him in as opposed to Malik or JG.  Honestly, I'm fine with the minutes getting split and Reneau or Race moving over to the 5 when TJD needs a rest.

[realTomCrean 1,470]

18 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

We are 5-1 since his return. I don't mind him starting but around the 13-14 minute mark, it's time for Malik to come in for him. I love the senior leadership but you can tell he's just not 100% yet. That brace looks to weight 10 lbs itself. 

This was my exact thought last night after the traditionary post-game phone call with my dad and arguing over him starting or not. My dad loves to say that Woody sticks with his and doesn't change. I agree with him, but like you said he needs to come out after the first segment. Malik has been playing better and the upside is clear for all to see. Malik may not start, but we can't have Thompson doubling him in minutes if we are serious about making a run

[go iu bb 4,789]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

 

He's FG% is my issue.  It's pretty bad.  He's shown he can hit the 3 but I'm not sure those numbers aren't inflated a little by sample size due to FG/FT%.  He's got everything else it seems.  So, I agree with Chris he can soar with a strong March performance.  I can see an argument either direction, and i'm clearly not an NBA exec but i'd want to see improved FG% from him.  

He will be interesting to follow in mocks.  

If they see something in his shooting that can be fixed, I don't think that would turn them off of him. They have great coaches in the NBA who can improve his shooting. It might be an issue if they think it's unfixable and he's just a bad shooter and will likely not improve much even with more coaching.

The game has changed some since the mid-90s, but I remember Eric Snow from MSU having a long NBA career. That surprised me because he was a terrible shooter in college. Very bad. Sub-.500 FT shooter bad. So there is precedence for a PG who can't shoot still being valuable.

[RaceToTheTop 23,615]

12 minutes ago, HoosierFan1994 said:

He needs to be suspended a game. That was childish. With him doing it to Trayce that doesn't help his cause. I'm sure Woodson and company was on the phone with the B1G first thing this morning. 

Yeah, it was definitely intentional.  Disappointed in it because I really do like Mulcahy's game -- he plays hard, scores, rebounds, passes well, defends well.  Gets the most out of his ability.  But you can't do crap like that.  That's the same infraction that got Derek Elston suspended for a game when he was at IU.

[RaceToTheTop 23,615]

2 minutes ago, realTomCrean said:

This was my exact thought last night after the traditionary post-game phone call with my dad and arguing over him starting or not. My dad loves to say that Woody sticks with his and doesn't change. I agree with him, but like you said he needs to come out after the first segment. Malik has been playing better and the upside is clear for all to see. Malik may not start, but we can't have Thompson doubling him in minutes if we are serious about making a run

One thing to keep in mind:  Malik starting and getting any kind of big minute increase likely results in him being in foul trouble a lot.  Even in this string where he's played well, he's picking up a foul every 5 1/2 minutes.  Limiting him to 15 to 20 minutes allows him to not change his style of play at all and allows you to have the ability to have him available at big moments that he wouldn't be available for if he were in foul trouble.

[HoosierHoopster 6,041]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

 

He's FG% is my issue.  It's pretty bad.  He's shown he can hit the 3 but I'm not sure those numbers aren't inflated a little by sample size due to FG/FT%.  He's got everything else it seems.  So, I agree with Chris he can soar with a strong March performance.  I can see an argument either direction, and i'm clearly not an NBA exec but i'd want to see improved FG% from him.  

He will be interesting to follow in mocks.  

NBA drafts on talent / upside and to an extent combine / team workout results. He's a two-way big, strong, quick scoring lead guard. JHS has just about every physical trait and intangible an NBA team could want in an on-ball guard, and he's clearly been a major factor in our winning streak. I don't think there's any real question that he's a first rounder at this point, question is where in first round not if. Rest of season and tourney will probably impact placement, but he'll test waters and get direct feedback, and will make his decision on that. 

[HoosierHoopster 6,041]

4 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

One thing to keep in mind:  Malik starting and getting any kind of big minute increase likely results in him being in foul trouble a lot.  Even in this string where he's played well, he's picking up a foul every 5 1/2 minutes.  Limiting him to 15 to 20 minutes allows him to not change his style of play at all and allows you to have the ability to have him available at big moments that he wouldn't be available for if he were in foul trouble.

His foul rate has been the issue all season for sure, but he's been improving on it / learning to bang and get position without fouling better. 2 fouls against PU in 20 minutes, including going directly at Frankenstein. 0 fouls in 14 minutes against rugby twit - Rutger players (he should have played more, but the 3 TO's likely were why he didn't). He's not fully there yet but he's improving, and imo what he brings to the table merits more time.

[Hardwood83 4,499]

14 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

Coach K sure was a tough disciplinarian. 

I heard he gave Zion Williamson's entire family a "time-out" in a multi-million dollar mansion outside of Durham for the ENTIRE SEASON. That is bringing it. Glad that slimy rat bastard is gone. 

[HoosierFan1994 4,609]

Hot Take: I don't think Rutgers will be as successful with their incoming classes. Rutgers wins because of the kind of players they recruit. Do we really see 5 stars playing like this? I don't think so...Rutgers is the new Wisconsin. 

[JSHoosier 19,568]

7 minutes ago, HoosierFan1994 said:

Hot Take: I don't think Rutgers will be as successful with their incoming classes. Rutgers wins because of the kind of players they recruit. Do we really see 5 stars playing like this? I don't think so...Rutgers is the new Wisconsin. 

Considering how long Wisconsin has been a pain in the arse, all I can think is 'ugh.

[realTomCrean 1,470]

13 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

If they see something in his shooting that can be fixed, I don't think that would turn them off of him. They have great coaches in the NBA who can improve his shooting. It might be an issue if they think it's unfixable and he's just a bad shooter and will likely not improve much even with more coaching.

The game has changed some since the mid-90s, but I remember Eric Snow from MSU having a long NBA career. That surprised me because he was a terrible shooter in college. Very bad. Sub-.500 FT shooter bad. So there is precedence for a PG who can't shoot still being valuable.

The drawback that I see is JHS willingness to finish at the rim rather than settle for a mid-range pull up. He hits the pull up well, but undoubtedly costs himself by not attacking the basket - that would go further for his %. He braces for contact on nearly every drive and lay in and is admittedly not a great finisher at the rim. Another thing I've noticed, for a large guard his vertical is suspect. Fortunately, that will improve as he gets older and more into S&C. JHS in my mind is mid-to-late 1st Rd pick. Assume that he is leaving, but as several have mentioned on here there is a LARGE amount of $$ for an IU star next year. His tourney success does play a lot into his choice - hopefully we get to the Final Four and he's averaging 20/4/4. Stay or go, Indiana is in a great spot going forward. Go Hoosiers!! 

 

Now... onto the lil wolverines 

[hoosierbgh 1,227]

I've read less than 2 full pages and checked the title of this thread 4 times already to make sure I was actually in the IU vs. Rutgers thread instead of some thread discussing alternate realities. 

JHS won't get drafted this year?

The team is better without X?

Did some IU fans get into the same stuff that convinces BIG refs that Edey needs to be protected or that Wisconsin never commits a foul? I'm struggling to come up with another viable explanation for such interesting and nonsensical takes.

 

[str8baller 4,756]

30 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

stretch, I believe our defensive PPP has been much better with him in as opposed to Malik or JG.  H

Good post, overall. And I’d bet that statement is right. It Is the reason Woody sticks with him.  
 

Our defensive effectiveness in-game seems to plummet as soon as the subs come in. A lot of that is Bates, but the freshman have their problems. That’s how team defense works—one guy screwing up can wreck the whole thing. Reneau and Geronimo have come a long way, but the coaching staff seems to be willing to live with Race’s offense so long as he isn’t making the mental mistakes others are making.
 

Again…last night he started the game, started the second half and finished the game. Those were 3 of our four best stretches, as a team. Race has issues but the team clearly plays fine with him out there overall.