Indiana at Illinois Thu 1/19/23 8:30pm FS1

[Stuhoo 75,756]

30 minutes ago, Dave from Dayton said:

Firesign Theater salutes you...while holding the dwarf with the pliers.

Bringing the subject back to an IU win on the road in the B1G...has everyone noticed the huge steps that IU and Coach Woody have taken in the last few games?  

Miller Kopp played his role extremely well again.

Efficient, disciplined, winning basketball. And while he will never be a major impact guy, he makes it that much harder to double Trayce or Malik.

[BGleas 7,880]

A little late to the parry, but what a great win! So much of college basketball is about a team finding its identity, and if this team has found its identity and can stay true to it then all if their goals are still right there. 

If this is a gritty defensive team that plays with effort and energy consistently, and offensively just builds around TJD and JHS with the "others" playing their roles and supplementing, IU will win a lot games. 

It took JG awhile, but finally accepting his role and what his role is and starring in his role makes him an extremely valuable player. He was always a junkyard dog, "college 4", was never a wing. In this role he's phenomenal. 

Same for Kopp. He made mention after Wisconsin (I think) that his role offensively isn't to put up a ton of shots but it's to create space for others and knock down the shots he does get, while playing tough, smart defense. 

With energy, effort, a defensive mindset and smart offense, everything is still right in font of this team. 

[Stuhoo 75,756]

Another takeaway from the game:

Mike Woodson knows more about basketball than Logan Duncomb’s grandmother.

[Josh 12,380]

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

You found the irony to be ironic? Usually how that works. 

You picked up on the observation I was putting down.  How observant

[Stuhoo 75,756]

Another takeaway:

Jason Benetti is an incredibly excellent play by play announcer. In fact, he is so good he actually made Bardo good!

[Hoosier DaDa 2,016]

Another takeaway from the game:
Mike Woodson knows more about basketball than Logan Duncomb’s grandmother.

Well to give Granny a little credit Logan did get in the first half of the Wisconsin game. She must have Woodson's ear.

Sent from my SM-G950U using BtownBanners mobile app

[HoosierHoopster 6,065]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

A little late to the parry, but what a great win! So much of college basketball is about a team finding its identity, and if this team has found its identity and can stay true to it then all if their goals are still right there. 

If this is a gritty defensive team that plays with effort and energy consistently, and offensively just builds around TJD and JHS with the "others" playing their roles and supplementing, IU will win a lot games. 

It took JG awhile, but finally accepting his role and what his role is and starring in his role makes him an extremely valuable player. He was always a junkyard dog, "college 4", was never a wing. In this role he's phenomenal. 

Same for Kopp. He made mention after Wisconsin (I think) that his role offensively isn't to put up a ton of shots but it's to create space for others and knock down the shots he does get, while playing tough, smart defense. 

With energy, effort, a defensive mindset and smart offense, everything is still right in font of this team. 

I don’t think it’s that JG is finally accepting his role — that makes it sound like he’s been trying to play on the wing, or not playing to his strengths up front. The whole wing discussion got overblown here - we got all down into the wing discussion, but JG himself, when interviewed at the start of season said he’s just going to do whatever is needed and kind of pushed back on questions about his developing to play wing, saying he’s worked on things so that he can help there when needed.

What I see right now is his getting pushed by Woodson to attack on both ends, to study more film (JG has mentioned that more than once recently) so that he’s ready and can be more focused on just playing to his strengths without overthinking. He doesn’t look lost now, he’s in position.

At the same time he’s added better perimeter D to his interior D, that’s clear, he’s guarded well when closing out in these last 2 games, his seals inside look good, and just his hands on the ball inside are better - he’s in position and ready when TJD dishes off.

Related, I agree with one of the announcers in the Ill game, who said it’s taken him a few games, but JG has learned how to play with TJD - that positioning, understanding where to be and what TJD is doing, is starting to look more like how Race plays. Race plays off TJD, it looks natural bc he knows what TJD is doing. TJD dominates and just knowing where to he in the speed of the game is getting JG able to bring that 6-6 first half while cleaning up the glass. Maybe “lunch pail” guy is accurate, but it’s that understanding that’s allowing him to thrive imo, in 30 min PT.

And to be fair, as well as he’s played these past 2, not sure he’s fully there yet. We haven’t  seen how he’ll respond, with TJD, when TJD gets doubled and triple teamed, I’d bank on seeing some of that Sunday. Hope they’re both ready for it.

[lillurk 3,689]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

Miller Kopp played his role extremely well again.

Efficient, disciplined, winning basketball. And while he will never be a major impact guy, he makes it that much harder to double Trayce or Malik.

On top of this, he spent a little time guarding Terrence Shannon on Thursday night when Trey and JHS were in foul trouble. At full strength he’s also probably behind X and Race in who you’d assign that job to.

Of course, he did not fare as well as Trey in the role, or to a lesser extent Jalen. And yet: he stayed in front, made catches hard, and wasn’t blown by to my memory. Shannon did his best work against Kopp, but just being able to staunch the bleeding has value.

It reminded me a bit of Nick Zeisloft staying in front of Jamal Murray in the ‘16 round of 32 game. Of course OG did a better job. Of course Robert Johnson would’ve gotten the call if he’d been healthy. But through wile and focus, Zeisloft gave Murray nothing easy when pressed into a tough spot. That doesn’t make you a good defender, but it makes you a good teammate (and it’s part of an overall package of being a good player).

[RaceToTheTop 23,784]

28 minutes ago, lillurk said:

On top of this, he spent a little time guarding Terrence Shannon on Thursday night when Trey and JHS were in foul trouble. At full strength he’s also probably behind X and Race in who you’d assign that job to.

Of course, he did not fare as well as Trey in the role, or to a lesser extent Jalen. And yet: he stayed in front, made catches hard, and wasn’t blown by to my memory. Shannon did his best work against Kopp, but just being able to staunch the bleeding has value.

It reminded me a bit of Nick Zeisloft staying in front of Jamal Murray in the ‘16 round of 32 game. Of course OG did a better job. Of course Robert Johnson would’ve gotten the call if he’d been healthy. But through wile and focus, Zeisloft gave Murray nothing easy when pressed into a tough spot. That doesn’t make you a good defender, but it makes you a good teammate (and it’s part of an overall package of being a good player).

I’m of the opinion that Kopp’s defense is okay — not good, but doesn’t hurt — and he does allow better spacing on offense.  Just wish he was hitting open spaces better and looking for his shot.

[lillurk 3,689]

3 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

I’m of the opinion that Kopp’s defense is okay — not good, but doesn’t hurt — and he does allow better spacing on offense.  Just wish he was hitting open spaces better and looking for his shot.

I agree. His deficiencies on D are about footspeed, leaping, other physical limitations. IU’s other personnel means he doesn’t get torched too often. Injuries have taken two of IU’s three or four best defenders, so he’s more exposed lately.

[HoosierAloha 29,897]

15 hours ago, Chris007 said:

But when you act this way it comes across as you know more than other posters. Especially when you mention E or I stuff every game 

Do you want honesty or politeness? I kid
What is the saying about science and religion being a foot apart? I think it's similarly applicable here. I don't know more than others on here but emotions can blind. The cope and generalization comment comes from Occam's Razor principle. We'll find every excuse with little or no evidence as opposed to what is most likely. We're an intelligent fanbase but also a wildly passionate one.

A lot of our issues can be linked to e and e and i an i. There is a baseline of e and e you have to play with in the Big 1.o to even give yourself a chance to win. This is not some crazy knowledge that only I understand. Watching a certain player get blown by in the cupcake noncon was plenty of proof that he would struggle in conference play. That is not some amazing revelation. It's basic but it took him defending 12 players & coaches sitting on a bench to really get called out.

Knowledge and emotion can work together or against each other. You know that, everyone knows that. Some can separate them (even though they are haters or not fans) and others struggle. It has nothing to do with intelligence.

I don't envy the job Woody and staff or any other staff has working with young men. They get compensated nicely but you're dependent on them performing to keep your job. I've been there. When you succeed it's amazing when you fail it sucks.

[HoosierAloha 29,897]

6 hours ago, Josh said:

Yeah and he's the only one who posts as though he knows more than others.  You certainly don't, right?

This whole damn internet does.

 

4 hours ago, Josh said:

About some things sure.  And others know more than he does about other topics.  I just found the irony of the statement to be ironic

Appreciate it but no need. I put it out and willing to accept it coming back at me. Some need to vent so they can get that off their chest so allow them to send it my direction.

[HoosierAloha 29,897]

2 hours ago, BGleas said:

A little late to the parry, but what a great win! So much of college basketball is about a team finding its identity, and if this team has found its identity and can stay true to it then all if their goals are still right there. 

If this is a gritty defensive team that plays with effort and energy consistently, and offensively just builds around TJD and JHS with the "others" playing their roles and supplementing, IU will win a lot games. 

It took JG awhile, but finally accepting his role and what his role is and starring in his role makes him an extremely valuable player. He was always a junkyard dog, "college 4", was never a wing. In this role he's phenomenal. 

Same for Kopp. He made mention after Wisconsin (I think) that his role offensively isn't to put up a ton of shots but it's to create space for others and knock down the shots he does get, while playing tough, smart defense. 

With energy, effort, a defensive mindset and smart offense, everything is still right in font of this team. 

This is a really interesting take.

[HoosierAloha 29,897]

38 minutes ago, lillurk said:

I agree. His deficiencies on D are about footspeed, leaping, other physical limitations. IU’s other personnel means he doesn’t get torched too often. Injuries have taken two of IU’s three or four best defenders, so he’s more exposed lately.

He spaces out mentally at times too. There was a play in the second half of the Ill game where he dropped to the FT line to help and his man beat him backdoor. This isn't the typically result as that is him leaving a player wide open from deep.

[BGleas 7,880]

8 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

This is a really interesting take.

Thanks, I think? Not sure if you mean interesting good or bad? :)

I guess what I mean more specifically is that with TJD and JHS IU has two of the best players every time they step on the court and many nights the two best. 

Everyone else needs to fill in and supplement that with defense, energy, effort and smart play. 

IU can win a lot of game with defense, energy and effort being the identity and offensively just feeding off of TJD and JHS. 

[BGleas 7,880]

1 hour ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I don’t think it’s that JG is finally accepting his role — that makes it sound like he’s been trying to play on the wing, or not playing to his strengths up front. The whole wing discussion got overblown here - we got all down into the wing discussion, but JG himself, when interviewed at the start of season said he’s just going to do whatever is needed and kind of pushed back on questions about his developing to play wing, saying he’s worked on things so that he can help there when needed.

What I see right now is his getting pushed by Woodson to attack on both ends, to study more film (JG has mentioned that more than once recently) so that he’s ready and can be more focused on just playing to his strengths without overthinking. He doesn’t look lost now, he’s in position.

At the same time he’s added better perimeter D to his interior D, that’s clear, he’s guarded well when closing out in these last 2 games, his seals inside look good, and just his hands on the ball inside are better - he’s in position and ready when TJD dishes off.

Related, I agree with one of the announcers in the Ill game, who said it’s taken him a few games, but JG has learned how to play with TJD - that positioning, understanding where to be and what TJD is doing, is starting to look more like how Race plays. Race plays off TJD, it looks natural bc he knows what TJD is doing. TJD dominates and just knowing where to he in the speed of the game is getting JG able to bring that 6-6 first half while cleaning up the glass. Maybe “lunch pail” guy is accurate, but it’s that understanding that’s allowing him to thrive imo, in 30 min PT.

And to be fair, as well as he’s played these past 2, not sure he’s fully there yet. We haven’t  seen how he’ll respond, with TJD, when TJD gets doubled and triple teamed, I’d bank on seeing some of that Sunday. Hope they’re both ready for it.

Don't really want to get into the weeds on it and the whole wing thing again, but IMO it's pretty clear JG wasn't focused on what his role is and what made him successful up until the last two games. 

He came out this season seemingly focused on proving he can make 3's as opposed to focusing on what his role is and how he can star in it. 

As you said, it sounds like Woodson had a come to Jesus moment with him on what he needs to do to help this team and to JG's credit he had embraced that and it's paying off for him and the team. 

I've always said that of JG focuses on his role and what makes him a good, valuable player then he can be a huge asset and reason why this team reaches its goals.

[HoosierAloha 29,897]

3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Thanks, I think? Not sure if you mean interesting good or bad? :)

I guess what I mean more specifically is that with TJD and JHS IU has two of the best players every time they step on the court and many nights the two best. 

Everyone else needs to fill in and supplement that with defense, energy, effort and smart play. 

IU can win a lot of game with defense, energy and effort being the identity and offensively just feeding off of TJD and JHS. 

I completely agree with that take.

Kopp came to IU looking to expand his role. That might be good for Kopp but that wasn't good for the team. Shooting when open and defending to the best of his abilities.

When looking at other teams it seemed they had defined roles while we had players trying and being allowed to do just whatever. I'd say the only player I'm comfortable letting loose is JHS and XJ to a lesser extent. Hopefully, when XJ and Race return Woody isn't afraid to bench players when they're not playing their role. That might be THE key heading down the stretch.

[BGleas 7,880]

1 minute ago, HoosierAloha said:

I completely agree with that take.

Kopp came to IU looking to expand his role. That might be good for Kopp but that wasn't good for the team. Shooting when open and defending to the best of his abilities.

When looking at other teams it seemed they had defined roles while we had players trying and being allowed to do just whatever. I'd say the only player I'm comfortable letting loose is JHS and XJ to a lesser extent. Hopefully, when XJ and Race return Woody isn't afraid to bench players when they're not playing their role. That might be THE key heading down the stretch.

Absolutely! I've had the same thoughts watching other teams offensively vs IU really dating back to Archie getting here. 

Kopp specifically made a comment, I think after the Wisconsin game, that his role is to defend and create space, then knock down open shots, not to hunt tough shots and get volume of shots. He said he needs and is embracing that role. 

Agree on integrating XJ and Race back in. That could be tricky. I've always been an XJ fan despite some of his flaws. But JHS has grown a ton and is a legit NBA guard. We need XJ as another ball handler but I think this is JHS's offense at this point and that could get tricky to handle. 

Also, Race is obviously very valuable, but with JG embracing his role and excelling in it, he adds an athletic element that Race doesn't quite. JG is really good when playing to his strengths. 

Will be interesting to see. 

[hoosierbgh 1,227]

21 hours ago, Whoozhers said:

Exactly. We look like a deer in the headlights when we get pressed. Hope Woody is fixing that over the next few days.

Conversly, we don’t have a good smothering press like teams throw on us. Hope Woody is working on that, too.

Go HOOSIERS! Beat Sparty!

IMO, the biggest problem with IU's press break is that they merely look to get past the press and into their normal offense instead of looking to punish the opponent for playing a press by taking advantage of the easy scores the press will inevitably give up when actually attacked. In other words, they have played way t0o passive against the press, when they need to attack aggressively. 

[HoosierAloha 29,897]

45 minutes ago, hoosierbgh said:

IMO, the biggest problem with IU's press break is that they merely look to get past the press and into their normal offense instead of looking to punish the opponent for playing a press by taking advantage of the easy scores the press will inevitably give up when actually attacked. In other words, they have played way t0o passive against the press, when they need to attack aggressively. 

Exactly what I've seen. We haven't looked to break it efficiently either. We seem to hope to get across in time. I believe we got the ball to the middle once against Iowa and broke it rather easy. The next possession we went back to passing back and forth across the court. It was like breaking it correctly was an accident they were instructed against.