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IU_FanClub

Scott Dolson

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5 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

The responses you're already getting (and will likely continue to get) kind of prove your point. 

 

Some people could probably benefit from a day or two away from fan forums. I'm honestly getting amazed at how toxic this board is becoming. 

How? The flaws that have been discussed on this board have zero impact on how our team plays.

I guess I could tell my boss tomorrow I'm not performing because someone called out my performance on the other side of the country.

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3 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Fans complaining on a message board aren’t why our team gets thumped at home by freaking Northwestern. The fans did their part today trying to energize the players. The players just lack the give a **** needed to show up and compete for a full 40 minutes. When you go from a GOAT level coach to the past 2 decades we’ve had of course you’re going to see a ton of negativity. It’d be no different if UNC or Kansas or UK dealt with what we’ve dealt with. Those schools just wouldn’t ever let it get to that point because they actually care. 

Heads would've rolled at UK long before now.

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58 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

Heads would've rolled at UK long before now.

I think we will find out there soon - if UK misses the tourney this year, we will see if they fire their hall of fame, national championship winning coach.

I think they would/will

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2 hours ago, Hoosier Roots said:

In addition I feel like we are a fan base that leans into and feeds off of negativity much more than others. I know every fan base has this but there seems to be a large contingent of IU basketball fans that absolutely thrive off it. I get the impression that a lot of it comes from Knight’s coaching style and attitudes reinforcing this kind of behavior (I was born in 98, maybe I’m off there) but it’s incredibly annoying and unhelpful to the program. I’ve suspected that our annual mid season slumps are related to this and part of the reason why we have such a hard time breaking out of them. 
 

It seems like the venn diagram of our fans with with moral superiority complexes, that are completely out of touch with the program and CBB, and that are ridiculously negative and down beat towards the program is pretty close to a circle and they absolutely hurt the program. It’s how we end up with “Fans” writing Trayce to tell him that he’s horrible and doesn’t compare some star player from the 80s. 

First of all, I think it's really hard to make a statement like that. You are intimately familiar with the IU fanbase and I would wager not intimately familiar with any other ones. Second, I'm genuinely curious, how do you feel the actions of the fans are affecting the team's play? Logically, how would that actually work? 

I'm going to throw an Occam's Razor explanation out for our results/slumps - our coaches and/or players just haven't been that good.

It would be pretty silly, with as large as the fan population is, to assume the personality profile of our fanbase is very different from other fanbases that also have very large populations. From a statistical perspective, it's just very unlikely.

Is there more negativity with our fanbase? Probably, which I would have to wager is the result of two things:

1) There are a lot of fans that care about the basketball program, and a lot of them care a great deal about IU basketball which leads to higher intensity of emotions, both good and bad. And when we don't play well, it leads to a large amount of high-intensity negativity from a sheer volume perspective. The same way that from a volume perspective, there was a lot more negativity from Oklahoma football fans than IU football fans this past year.

2) So often, it's very hard to see how the future is going to be better than the present. It's really hard again right now. This season is looking lost, which injuries are for sure playing a big part of. But even though that's true the injury narrative doesn't help the future. We're going to lose most of our best players next year, and are going to have comparable or less talent than a lot of other teams in the Big Ten. And quite frankly, we need to out-talent other teams because we have a coaching staff that isn't going to outcoach the other team on many occasions.

I also think the NIL changes the game when it comes to the logically lazy explanation (in my opinion) that the fans contribute to losing. These players are going to make as much as they do in NIL money because the fans care, period. If the players don't have marketing reach, they won't make money. The fans are showing up for games, they are getting the players paid, they are not the reason we are losing games.

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1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

How? The flaws that have been discussed on this board have zero impact on how our team plays.

I guess I could tell my boss tomorrow I'm not performing because someone called out my performance on the other side of the country.

If anything maybe the coaches need to read this board seem to think that doing the same thing over and over again is a winning formula 

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22 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Then tell him he needs to bring in cleaner kids and work with him, don’t fire him and nuke the program in the aftermath. We could’ve been Houston, but being able to preen about our moral superiority is a nice consolation prize. 

It was the nuking of the program that was stupid.  

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I have a bad feeling Dolson is going to go down as the worst athletic director since Michael McNeely.

The big difference now from the McNeely era is the sports right below football and men's basketball are in a very good spot and that is 100% on Fred Glass. For all his other faults and he had plenty, Glass' management and hires in the sports below the big two have mostly put them in their best position in IU history at the moment. Otherwise Dolson might inadvertently destroy those also.

I think Dolson is doing his best and he certainly is not trying to mess up the big two programs on purpose. Unfortunately his big decisions so far (Allen extension, Woodson hire) while defensible, have backfired big time and put them in the worst place since the early 2000's in the Davis/DiNardo era.    

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5 hours ago, JSHoosier said:

Yeah, it's Whitten now.  How'd I forget that.

You do realize unlike McRobbie, Whitten is a huge sports fan and does care about athletics? Whether she has the guts to can Dolson if he sinks the ship I have no idea, but unlike McRobbie she does care about IU sports and understands their role in a campus setting and really wants them to be good.

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Phone calls wasn't the problem for Sampson but it was he brought in pimps and drug dealers. Guys who didn't go to class and had 19F's. Sampson shod have never been hired. If our president at the time didn't make the AD hire him we could have had Beilein.
Really? Pretty sure he got fired for the infraction and not for the assumed to be truth of hookers and pimps. At least I didn't see the ticker or headline that said he was fired for bringing in hookers alongside their pimp.

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Ok, so who are the "elite" coaches that would come here if money is no object?  Hell, who are even the "elite" coaches today?  Some of you guys may be look for a unicorn.  
Identify them before others do. Problem is our AD is likely unable to do that.

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7 minutes ago, rcs29 said:

Identify them before others do. Problem is our AD is likely unable to do that.

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They haven't even tried. They've half-a$$ed every coaching hire since Knight was fired.

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They haven't even tried. They've half-a$$ed every coaching hire since Knight was fired.
Absolutely agree. Although if the Steven's pursuit was true then I'll give him that at least. Unfortunately I don't think he had a plan B or C and just went with whatever was easy.

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35 minutes ago, rcs29 said:

Identify them before others do. Problem is our AD is likely unable to do that.

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You never know who is the ‘elite’ coach until you hire them and their previous resume says very little. IU’s three elite coaches at moment (Teri Moren, Todd Yeagley, Ray Looze) all had mediocre at best resumes when hired and have built or maintained top programs.

Matt Painters resume was not great before Purdue nor were several other Big Ten coaches who are now thriving at their schools.

I will never judge a hire based on a resume as every coach has potential to be elite regardless of their past. However, if your team is not starting to show promise by your second season it is unlikely to work out at that place.

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26 minutes ago, Aaron said:

You never know who is the ‘elite’ coach until you hire them and their previous resume says very little. IU’s three elite coaches at moment (Teri Moren, Todd Yeagley, Ray Looze) all had mediocre at best resumes when hired and have built or maintained top programs.

Matt Painters resume was not great before Purdue nor were several other Big Ten coaches who are now thriving at their schools.

I will never judge a hire based on a resume as every coach has potential to be elite regardless of their past. However, if your team is not starting to show promise by your second season it is unlikely to work out at that place.

I'm in sales, and we all know who the ELITE sales people are WAY before they close a huge deal or make their mark. It is comically easy to spot great sellers and bad ones... For example of a bad salesperson.... Once a salesperson says "I'll never hit my number", "my account list is S***", "I didn't have X", its over. Those guys flame out and quickly. Now It's possible they have a blue bird account and have one good year. but ball don't lie and they get fired or put on a plan quickly after.

Elite Salespeople come in with a plan, growth mindset, are great at putting in the hard work, set a defined goal at the beginning of the year, they become ELITE quickly. I assume same goes for coaching, you can tell by their practices, their mindset, if they're making excuses etc.

In sales You may not get the best accounts, manager, team, or territory and things like having to split commissions and getting 50% quota happens, You have to deal with it in stride and commit to succeeding no matter what.

Maintaining a schedule for cold calls, email outreach, etc is same as a practice schedule for a coach. Losing accounts is same as injuries, Deal slipping in quarter for something uncontrollable is same as getting beat at buzzer.

If you know what you're looking for its so easy to identify top talent, even before they make a large tournament run...

Crean exuded everything that would indicate a failure vs elite coach in his first year. I don't understand for the life of me how the Athletic Department didn't recognize it. Archie was also easily identifiable as a failure before he started because he wasn't a culture fit. Again the Athletic Department didn't recognize it. Woodson is a good culture fit, seems to have what it takes, I haven't heard excuses except for today when he called out injuries... I think his issue is that he needs to adapt his "sales" process to the college game. He can't just have a really talented player and let him do his thing like in the NBA

I knew Crean would never work when he made excuses his first 3 years. "oh I didn't have enough Scholarship players etc"... Become elite at something. Maybe the best fundamental team in the B10, strive for most steals in the league, anything to hang your hat on.... This is why in my thread about the uniforms EVERYTHING MATTERS when you're becoming elite. If you don't believe me read Atomic Habits. 

We are a half-A**ed program hanging our hats on our laurels from stuff we won 35years ago. The Admin needs to wake up. I can't keep supporting a program thats rudderless with no clear direction or intent on what they are. 

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1 hour ago, rcs29 said:

Identify them before others do. Problem is our AD is likely unable to do that.

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Not many can. What characteristics would you be looking for?

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22 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

I'm in sales, and we all know who the ELITE sales people are WAY before they close a huge deal or make their mark. It is comically easy to spot great sellers and bad ones... For example of a bad salesperson.... Once a salesperson says "I'll never hit my number", "my account list is S***", "I didn't have X", its over. Those guys flame out and quickly. Now It's possible they have a blue bird account and have one good year. but ball don't lie and they get fired or put on a plan quickly after.

Elite Salespeople come in with a plan, growth mindset, are great at putting in the hard work, set a defined goal at the beginning of the year, they become ELITE quickly. I assume same goes for coaching, you can tell by their practices, their mindset, if they're making excuses etc.

In sales You may not get the best accounts, manager, team, or territory and things like having to split commissions and getting 50% quota happens, You have to deal with it in stride and commit to succeeding no matter what.

Maintaining a schedule for cold calls, email outreach, etc is same as a practice schedule for a coach. Losing accounts is same as injuries, Deal slipping in quarter for something uncontrollable is same as getting beat at buzzer.

If you know what you're looking for its so easy to identify top talent, even before they make a large tournament run...

Crean exuded everything that would indicate a failure vs elite coach in his first year. I don't understand for the life of me how the Athletic Department didn't recognize it. Archie was also easily identifiable as a failure before he started because he wasn't a culture fit. Again the Athletic Department didn't recognize it. Woodson is a good culture fit, seems to have what it takes, I haven't heard excuses except for today when he called out injuries... I think his issue is that he needs to adapt his "sales" process to the college game. He can't just have a really talented player and let him do his thing like in the NBA

I knew Crean would never work when he made excuses his first 3 years. "oh I didn't have enough Scholarship players etc"... Become elite at something. Maybe the best fundamental team in the B10, strive for most steals in the league, anything to hang your hat on.... This is why in my thread about the uniforms EVERYTHING MATTERS when you're becoming elite. If you don't believe me read Atomic Habits. 

We are a half-A**ed program hanging our hats on our laurels from stuff we won 35years ago. The Admin needs to wake up. I can't keep supporting a program thats rudderless with no clear direction or intent on what they are. 

Coach K was 55% at Army with 3 of 5 winning seasons. First 3 years at Duke he has on winning season and was 44%.  Not quite elite performance.   Compare to Roy Williams.  He pretty much kicked @$$ from day one.  
 

 

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Not many can. What characteristics would you be looking for?
A character that has always shown ultra competitiveness (hates losing more than likes winning), has a system that he knows what personnel he needs to succeed with it, knows what accountability means and why it's vital in a team setting. An ability to understand his own weaknesses and surround himself with people that can counter those weaknesses. Just a couple off the top of my head. If i thought for awhile I could probably make a more extensive list. There's always a risk and you never really know and I get that.

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