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southernindianahoosier2

How far away is IUBB from being elite again?

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10 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

I want more fan gear, more player gear, Nike to sponsor IU. and for IU to take the small things about the program seriously. How can you expect to have an elite program if you can't take care of the small things.... Via the tweet, when compared to Kansas (who just won a national championship), we aren't doing the small things and are not on the same level as them. 

Because those "small things" are really, really, small and don't make a rats bit of difference when it comes to team performance.  What the hell is elite gear anyway?  More stuff?   Different colors?  Bigger sizes? Stuff for your dog?  Horse?   You can find just about any IU gear you want.  I have a bunch of Tommy Bahama IU gear -- that's pretty "elite" to me.  

 

Here are the hottest B-ball shoes his year.  Addidas has several entries.  

https://www.highsnobiety.com/p/best-basketball-shoes/

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2 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Because those "small things" are really, really, small and don't make a rats bit of difference when it comes to team performance.  What the hell is elite gear anyway?  More stuff?   Different colors?  Bigger sizes? Stuff for your dog?  Horse?   You can find just about any IU gear you want.  I have a bunch of Tommy Bahama IU gear -- that's pretty "elite" to me.  

IU's handling of the small things like uniforms, the shop at Assembly hall, adidas sponsorship et al. are indicative of a systemic failure to hold the program accountable to a championship level standard. Its a narrative that IU doesn't care about being an elite program. It starts at the top and is a slippery slope which gives way for coaches and players to be held at a standard below what is required to win a national championship. 

When I say we need new uniforms - I'm not saying changing the lettering of Indiana will lead to a championship.

What I am saying is Indiana taking small things seriously, like getting uniforms that compete with the other top programs (via cut, design, material, alts, names on back) would create a narrative that we are competitive in today's CBB landscape. It's a growth mindset that all of the other top programs have and we don't. If you want to win at the highest level you have to take EVERYTHING into consideration. You need to be uncommon amongst uncommon people.

I knew someone who focused on all the small things leading up to little 5... slept in an oxygen tent every night, read books, you name it. Sounds like most of the people on this board would think that is stupid and is such a small impact etc. Well he won the Lil 500 by being the anchor leg of the race. This stuff matters. 

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8 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

What I am saying is Indiana taking small things seriously, like getting uniforms that compete with the other top programs (via cut, design, material, alts, names on back)

This is SOOOO subjective. This does not compare AT. ALL. to your friend that prepared their tail off for Little 5. 

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22 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

IU's handling of the small things like uniforms, the shop at Assembly hall, adidas sponsorship et al. are indicative of a systemic failure to hold the program accountable to a championship level standard. Its a narrative that IU doesn't care about being an elite program. It starts at the top and is a slippery slope which gives way for coaches and players to be held at a standard below what is required to win a national championship. 

When I say we need new uniforms - I'm not saying changing the lettering of Indiana will lead to a championship.

What I am saying is Indiana taking small things seriously, like getting uniforms that compete with the other top programs (via cut, design, material, alts, names on back) would create a narrative that we are competitive in today's CBB landscape. It's a growth mindset that all of the other top programs have and we don't. If you want to win at the highest level you have to take EVERYTHING into consideration. You need to be uncommon amongst uncommon people.

I knew someone who focused on all the small things leading up to little 5... slept in an oxygen tent every night, read books, you name it. Sounds like most of the people on this board would think that is stupid and is such a small impact etc. Well he won the Lil 500 by being the anchor leg of the race. This stuff matters. 

Dude, it’s a complete side show.  Your buddy preparedness is indicative.  Stuff he was doing was to prep his body for the ride.  The analogy to the basketball program is to focus on protecting the ball, limiting turn overs, crisp passes, proper spacing, press breaks, inbounds plays, etc.  All the little details ON THE COURT.   The stock in the gear store is completely irrelevant, although it appears to disturb some of our younger fans.  
 

And here’s the second thing.  I don’t want a farqung narrative that we are competitive.  I actually want to be competitive again ON THE COURT.  

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Just now, southernindianahoosier2 said:

Explain how its both subjective and how it doesn't compare to my friend? 

 

Because it’s your opinion that the design, cut, etc. of the uniforms needs to change. There is no evidence that changing any of those things would improve the program. There’s also no evidence that not changing those things (which would be my opinion; I love our uniforms and I’m not an old fart, either) would allow it to improve either. You’re clearly very into fashion, branding, etc. You must understand the subjectivity of this conversation, right? 

There is evidence to show that getting quality sleep, studying, and other preparation would improve your friend’s cycling performance. There isn’t evidence to show that them wearing cycling brand A instead of cycling brand B or compression pants vs. shorts is even a small contributing factor. 

Not to mention…we’ve done alternates (our BHM uniforms have been excellent), we’ve changed the cut, design, fit, material of our uniforms as that whole landscape has changed, we’ve collabed with a designer on team gear, we’ve let Adidas put sleeves on the uniforms (this point is conceded, I hope the team behind that got fired). It’s not like we’re 2010’s Georgia Tech rocking Russell uniforms here…we’re a major Adidas school, but maybe if we acted a little more like Kansas, Adidas would treat us a little more like Kansas. We technically agree there, but chickens and eggs and whatnot.

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2 hours ago, cthomas said:

As much as I hate Purdue, Matt Painter is a top ten coach in the nation. He takes kids that usually we don't want and turns them into a team that is very successful. We can joke about them not having won a national championship, but if he keeps putting the type of teams he has the last few years on the floor, the championship is coming. We think we can't be elite until we have elite talent. Who on Purdue's roster was considered elite coming out of high school? It can be done without five star kids. I'm sick of seeing Purdue do it when we can't.

And his first 2 seasons he went 31-31. Yet, Boiler fans weren't ready to run him out of WL either. Our fan base has thousands of AD'S and Head coaches, ready to "make us elite" again. 

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Because it’s your opinion that the design, cut, etc. of the uniforms needs to change. There is no evidence that changing any of those things would improve the program. There’s also no evidence that not changing those things (which would be my opinion; I love our uniforms and I’m not an old fart, either) would allow it to improve either. You’re clearly very into fashion, branding, etc. You must understand the subjectivity of this conversation, right? 
There is evidence to show that getting quality sleep, studying, and other preparation would improve your friend’s cycling performance. There isn’t evidence to show that them wearing cycling brand A instead of cycling brand B or compression pants vs. shorts is even a small contributing factor. 
Not to mention…we’ve done alternates (our BHM uniforms have been excellent), we’ve changed the cut, design, fit, material of our uniforms as that whole landscape has changed, we’ve collabed with a designer on team gear, we’ve let Adidas put sleeves on the uniforms (this point is conceded, I hope the team behind that got fired). It’s not like we’re 2010’s Georgia Tech rocking Russell uniforms here…we’re a major Adidas school, but maybe if we acted a little more like Kansas, Adidas would treat us a little more like Kansas. We technically agree there, but chickens and eggs and whatnot.
Woah, woah. Why the cheap shot at Russell athletics? Next you're going to go after And 1 I bet huh?

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

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8 hours ago, Golfman25 said:

Because those "small things" are really, really, small and don't make a rats bit of difference when it comes to team performance.  What the hell is elite gear anyway?  More stuff?   Different colors?  Bigger sizes? Stuff for your dog?  Horse?   You can find just about any IU gear you want.  I have a bunch of Tommy Bahama IU gear -- that's pretty "elite" to me.  

 

Here are the hottest B-ball shoes his year.  Addidas has several entries.  

https://www.highsnobiety.com/p/best-basketball-shoes/

And it's that attitude that put us 50 years behind on a new locker room. And continue to put is behind schools who take their basketball program seriously. If you're not going to do the little things, you don't actually care. 

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42 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

And it's that attitude that put us 50 years behind on a new locker room. And continue to put is behind schools who take their basketball program seriously. If you're not going to do the little things, you don't actually care. 

Not at all.  A locker room isn’t a little thing.  It’s DIRECTLY related to the basket ball program.  It’s their workspace.  They probably spend more time in the locker room than on the court.  But the clothing inventory in the stadium shop is a fly on an elephants butt.  It’s completely irrelevant to the program.  

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12 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Not at all.  A locker room isn’t a little thing.  It’s DIRECTLY related to the basket ball program.  It’s their workspace.  They probably spend more time in the locker room than on the court.  But the clothing inventory in the stadium shop is a fly on an elephants butt.  It’s completely irrelevant to the program.  

And a jersey is their work uniform. That's their suit and tie. It's not a massive thing, but grab a different every now and then. 

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14 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Read my post below because we have done our part. In my first 23 years we won 3 championships and went to 5 final fours and won a lot of big ten titles. Maybe it is time for your age group to step up and do better.

You're taking credit for that? What did you personally do to help IU win those titles and go to those final fours? Why did you stop doing it? If you want to take credit for IU's past success, I'll also blame you for IU's current woes.

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9 hours ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

IU's handling of the small things like uniforms, the shop at Assembly hall, adidas sponsorship et al. are indicative of a systemic failure to hold the program accountable to a championship level standard. Its a narrative that IU doesn't care about being an elite program. It starts at the top and is a slippery slope which gives way for coaches and players to be held at a standard below what is required to win a national championship. 

When I say we need new uniforms - I'm not saying changing the lettering of Indiana will lead to a championship.

What I am saying is Indiana taking small things seriously, like getting uniforms that compete with the other top programs (via cut, design, material, alts, names on back) would create a narrative that we are competitive in today's CBB landscape. It's a growth mindset that all of the other top programs have and we don't. If you want to win at the highest level you have to take EVERYTHING into consideration. You need to be uncommon amongst uncommon people.

I knew someone who focused on all the small things leading up to little 5... slept in an oxygen tent every night, read books, you name it. Sounds like most of the people on this board would think that is stupid and is such a small impact etc. Well he won the Lil 500 by being the anchor leg of the race. This stuff matters. 

I would also add that there is this (accurate, imo) idea that IU is stuck in the past. Something as simple as uniforms can help feed that idea when they look out of date. Modernizing them might help quash that idea a bit.

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I hear both sides of this, and think that there are definitely issues greater than our apparel that are holding us back..but I think there is definitely an argument to be made that in this day and age, the gear that is offered to the players, and the need to keep up with the major trends of college basketballs elite programs on this front is important to not only the players that we have, but the type of recruits that we must target to get us back to an elite program. If the elites weren't doing it, it would be a gimmick. But they are doing it, and I think kids care. 

Whether it should matter or not is irrelevant, because Kids these days care about fashion in the social media era that we are in. Jerseys, shoes, warm ups, sweats, etc. all matter to these kids. Heck..it even matters to alumni. I just saw a instagram video of an Auburn Alum now in the NBA, roasting the school for sending him a $29 alumni swag bag. He opened it in the locker room and a teammate posted the video saying "You should have gone to Alabama". Kids are seeing this stuff, and it matters. 

The arugment to be had IMO is not whether or not we should be doing it, but truly how far behind are we. I can't honestly answer that question. 

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13 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Actually I think if Woodson can't turn it around then I don't think anyone will for awhile.  We keep blaming the coaches and making changes every 5 or so years and it hasn't worked.

Before Miller, Crean was at IU for 9 years. That's not anywhere close to 5 years. This idea that IU is constantly changing coaches is false. If you don't think the coaches are to blame, which one after Knight would you have kept?

Davis? Uh,  no. Started strong but after Knight's players left it went downhill quickly. He wasn't ready and isn't a P5 level coach anyways.

Sampson? Great coach but terrible in just about every aspect.

Crean? He had some good years but he also had some terrible years. His last year wasn't good and it didn't look like it would get better, which is why he was let go. His stint afterwards shows that was a good move.  

Miller? lol, h*ll no.

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22 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

Before Miller, Crean was at IU for 9 years. That's not anywhere close to 5 years. This idea that IU is constantly changing coaches is false. If you don't think the coaches are to blame, which one after Knight would you have kept?

Davis? Uh,  no. Started strong but after Knight's players left it went downhill quickly. He wasn't ready and isn't a P5 level coach anyways.

Sampson? Great coach but terrible in just about every aspect.

Crean? He had some good years but he also had some terrible years. His last year wasn't good and it didn't look like it would get better, which is why he was let go. His stint afterwards shows that was a good move.  

Miller? lol, h*ll no.

Yep. If only Sampson cared about academics and culture of IU's program, though. He is one of the best bball minds and on-floor X's and O's coaches out there. Had us at 24-4 when Sampson-gate broke. Obviously has raised UH to an elite bball program. And both the NCAA (was after Sampson bc he escaped them when they went after Okla) and our Administration overreacted to what were just phone call violations that the very next year were no longer even NCAA infractions. What a joke. But he left our academics in a bad mess and the drug culture and failing grades was completely out of control, yes he had to go, but man it's a shame, otherwise such a good coach.

Davis wasn't at the level to coach IU, that was a player driven decision (and ultimatum) out of loyalty to him/RMK. That sums it up.

Crean was a really good interim coach. Completely rebuilt the program after having to start walkons and baseball players. Don't think that gets enough credit, he landed Cody and Yogi, identified and brought in Vic, and took us to the longest #1 ranked team in the country, B1G championships (first in like 20 years) and SW16s. We didn't land the guy (like a Stevens or Donovan) who could have carried us forward to a consistent elite program again, but then just finding a good coach after the Sampson dismissal and dumpster fire that left the program in was a legitimately solid step. 

So the program made some bad decisions after RMK, maybe the Admin shouldn't have gone along with the players after his dismissal, but then not doing so also would've fanned the flames that were already there surrounding RMK's dismissal (I mean people not around at the time just can't understand how crazy that whole situation was) and itself created a dumpster fire with en masse player departures. 

The only really bad decision I see (my op) during this time was Miller, and that's also really just hindsight, he was well regarded at the time, and then the Admin did move on, as it should have, early when it was pretty clear he was not right for the U.

Hope Woodson takes us up the next step of the ladder. 

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30 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Yep. If only Sampson cared about academics and culture of IU's program, though. He is one of the best bball minds and on-floor X's and O's coaches out there. Had us at 24-4 when Sampson-gate broke. Obviously has raised UH to an elite bball program. And both the NCAA (was after Sampson bc he escaped them when they went after Okla) and our Administration overreacted to what were just phone call violations that the very next year were no longer even NCAA infractions. What a joke. But he left our academics in a bad mess and the drug culture and failing grades was completely out of control, yes he had to go, but man it's a shame, otherwise such a good coach.

Davis wasn't at the level to coach IU, that was a player driven decision (and ultimatum) out of loyalty to him/RMK. That sums it up.

Crean was a really good interim coach. Completely rebuilt the program after having to start walkons and baseball players. Don't think that gets enough credit, he landed Cody and Yogi, identified and brought in Vic, and took us to the longest #1 ranked team in the country, B1G championships (first in like 20 years) and SW16s. We didn't land the guy (like a Stevens or Donovan) who could have carried us forward to a consistent elite program again, but then just finding a good coach after the Sampson dismissal and dumpster fire that left the program in was a legitimately solid step. 

So the program made some bad decisions after RMK, maybe the Admin shouldn't have gone along with the players after his dismissal, but then not doing so also would've fanned the flames that were already there surrounding RMK's dismissal (I mean people not around at the time just can't understand how crazy that whole situation was) and itself created a dumpster fire with en masse player departures. 

The only really bad decision I see (my op) during this time was Miller, and that's also really just hindsight, he was well regarded at the time, and then the Admin did move on, as it should have, early when it was pretty clear he was not right for the U.

Hope Woodson takes us up the next step of the ladder. 

I think people under estimate the damage the whole Sampson "death penalty" did to the program.  It's almost impossible to recover from.  And I agree, Crean should get kudos for stepping in and bringing the program back from the abyss.   But hell it's easier to blame the uniforms and the shirts in the stadium shop.  :)  

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12 hours ago, Golfman25 said:

Because those "small things" are really, really, small and don't make a rats bit of difference when it comes to team performance.  What the hell is elite gear anyway?  More stuff?   Different colors?  Bigger sizes? Stuff for your dog?  Horse?   You can find just about any IU gear you want.  I have a bunch of Tommy Bahama IU gear -- that's pretty "elite" to me.  

 

Here are the hottest B-ball shoes his year.  Addidas has several entries.  

https://www.highsnobiety.com/p/best-basketball-shoes/

The Dame 8s are fire. 

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