How far away is IUBB from being elite again?

[Rico 2,911]

1 minute ago, HoosierAloha said:

Are we in fantasy land here or are we talking reality? We seemed to triple jump that line somewhere in the last couple of pages. W.T.F.

My apologies.  I am still liquored up from celebrating that @$$ beating we took yesterday.

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

Auburn might be a good example of skipping steps. I don't know their trajectory but it seems like since Pearl has been there they've had good to great teams and are consistently competing. I'm not sure they're an elite program but they have been in the upper tier of college basketball for several years.

[kreigh8 2,008]

Just now, IU Scott said:

I don't mind change if it makes things better. I actually think it would have been best to put money on a new arena instead of renovating AH. I think we need to have the student section all together going all the way around the first 10 rows. I just found it odd people thinking uniforms are a reason for us not being elite

 

If uniforms were that important, Oregon would be landing far more top basketball players than they do. Just finding the "Knight mentality" is something IU just can't quit.

 

• IU fanbase clamoring to recruit Indiana and the tri-state area as that's what Knight did in the 70's and 80's - cited as why Crean failed
• Archie recruits mostly Indiana guys, lands Romeo, he's going to succeed. Indiana guys turn out to be not very good and he can't land any big fish after Romeo
• Hire a former manager as AD as he knows what a successful basketball program at IU looks like 30-40 years ago
• AD hires Woodson. Former IU player 40 years ago who's been coaching only in the NBA  because he also knows what a quality IU bball program looks like 40 years ago

Perhaps there's some merit to return to that to find success - but that's quite some time ago and there's been a lot of changes since then: 3PT line, one-and-done, transfer portal.

Quoted you, but not directed at you. Just been a long time lurker here and this is a summarization of some of the views I've read so assuming that's generally views of most of the fanbase

[Uspshoosier 44,214]

2 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Auburn might be a good example of skipping steps. I don't know their trajectory but it seems like since Pearl has been there they've had good to great teams and are consistently competing. I'm not sure they're an elite program but they have been in the upper tier of college basketball for several years.

He had 2 losing seasons to start out and didn’t make they tourney in his first 3 years.     Finished. 13th, 13th and 11th in the sec in his first 3 years.   

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

1 minute ago, Rico said:

My apologies.  I am still liquored up from celebrating that @$$ beating we took yesterday.

There's no need for apologies. I'm trying to figure out how old fans are responsible for the program because they were fans when we won championships and went to FFs but aren't responsible for the mess of the last couple decades and the program will be gone when they're gone but younger fans should make the program better.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,192]

3 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Like I said if a recruit picks a school fur swag then I don't want him here.  Sorry to burst it to you but the only thing keeping IU relevant are us older fans who have actually seen IU be elite.  After we are gone the big time following probably will dwindle because the newer fans haven't seen success.

Right... But rather than look at from your old geezer eyes, look at it from an 18 year olds perspective. Let's face it, Adidas is garbage. It has been for a long time. And he's right, "swag" is important. Or I think kids nowadays use the word "drip" or something like that. Gotta cater to them. Catering to 60 year olds... Not gonna get you anywhere. It could definitely help IU to throw out some news unis and have alternates. It never hurts... Unless you're sponsored by Adidas... And you get pink highlighter unis like Louisville did. 

[HoosierTrav 7,619]

I’m my mind we are the next coach away assuming whoever makes that hire doesn’t completely botch it. I think Woodson is the best coach we’ve had since Sampson and is installing the right culture. I’m pretty confident that we were dangerously close to hiring Brad Stevens last time. If Woody can get this program to compete at the top half of the B1G for the remaining time he has here, I think our next coach gets us over the hump. That’s my hunch anyways.
 

I will say that I think Gabe Cupps is going to lead us to a Final Four in his 4 years here. 

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

3 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

He had 2 losing seasons to start out and didn’t make they tourney in his first 3 years.     Finished. 13th, 13th and 11th in the sec in his first 3 years.   

I guess extrapolating this from a football-centric school leads me to believe IU should be further ahead than we currently are in our trajectory. Although, I guess if the administration wouldn't have made bad decision after bad decision for decades we'd be an above average Big 1.o program at the very least.

[IU Scott 2,375]

11 minutes ago, kreigh8 said:

If uniforms were that important, Oregon would be landing far more top basketball players than they do. Just finding the "Knight mentality" is something IU just can't quit.

 

• IU fanbase clamoring to recruit Indiana and the tri-state area as that's what Knight did in the 70's and 80's - cited as why Crean failed
• Archie recruits mostly Indiana guys, lands Romeo, he's going to succeed. Indiana guys turn out to be not very good and he can't land any big fish after Romeo
• Hire a former manager as AD as he knows what a successful basketball program at IU looks like 30-40 years ago
• AD hires Woodson. Former IU player 40 years ago who's been coaching only in the NBA  because he also knows what a quality IU bball program looks like 40 years ago

Perhaps there's some merit to return to that to find success - but that's quite some time ago and there's been a lot of changes since then: 3PT line, one-and-done, transfer portal.

Quoted you, but not directed at you. Just been a long time lurker here and this is a summarization of some of the views I've read so assuming that's generally views of most of the fanbase

Well we turned away for 20 years on what made IU great so maybe it was time to try that formula again. Maybe Archie didn't recruit the right Indiana kids or didn't know how to coach fundamental players. Most of Purdue's roster is Indiana kids and they have done well.

 

[IU Scott 2,375]

8 minutes ago, HoosierTrav said:

I’m my mind we are the next coach away assuming whoever makes that hire doesn’t completely botch it. I think Woodson is the best coach we’ve had since Sampson and is installing the right culture. I’m pretty confident that we were dangerously close to hiring Brad Stevens last time. If Woody can get this program to compete at the top half of the B1G for the remaining time he has here, I think our next coach gets us over the hump. That’s my hunch anyways.
 

I will say that I think Gabe Cupps is going to lead us to a Final Four in his 4 years here. 

Actually I think if Woodson can't turn it around then I don't think anyone will for awhile.  We keep blaming the coaches and making changes every 5 or so years and it hasn't worked.

[HoosierTrav 7,619]

23 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

TJD is playing pro ball right now if he went to an elite program. In the right environment, he would have been forced to develop more and could do more if not required to be the best player and leader.

maybe in Europe… he’s not an NBA player. Arizona’s bigs played a lot like how he would expect them to play in the NBA and he was completely outclassed. I love Trayce but he’s a great college player and a G-League/European prospect. I’ll be shocked if he ends up on an NBA roster for more than a 2day. 

[kreigh8 2,008]

6 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Well we turned away for 20 years on what made IU great so maybe it was time to try that formula again. Maybe Archie didn't recruit the right Indiana kids or didn't know how to coach fundamental players. Most of Purdue's roster is Indiana kids and they have done well.

 

Archie got an immediate recruiting boost when hired by landing Romeo but wasn't able to sustain as the wins didn't pile up. Woodson also got the same boost by landing JHS and Reneau but also starting from a much better roster than Miller inherited. Be interesting to see how this works out as Woodson looks to be needing to replace a lot of production next season and getting the feeling these recruits are in wait and see mode on if IU is worth their time

[rcbowla 6,734]

Well we turned away for 20 years on what made IU great so maybe it was time to try that formula again. Maybe Archie didn't recruit the right Indiana kids or didn't know how to coach fundamental players. Most of Purdue's roster is Indiana kids and they have done well.
 

What was it that made IU great? Was it localized recruiting, keeping same uniforms, Martha the Mop Lady, any # of anecdotal things you want to point at? Or was it possibly having an elite coach who had installed a winning culture by winning? In college basketball you need either an elite coach with good/great talent or elite talent with a good/great coach. I hear "what made IU great" and "bridge to the past" a lot but what does that even mean? And how does that help on court success now exactly?

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[IU Scott 2,375]

12 minutes ago, rcs29 said:

What was it that made IU great? Was it localized recruiting, keeping same uniforms, Martha the Mop Lady, any # of anecdotal things you want to point at? Or was it possibly having an elite coach who had installed a winning culture by winning? In college basketball you need either an elite coach with good/great talent or elite talent with a good/great coach. I hear "what made IU great" and "bridge to the past" a lot but what does that even mean? And how does that help on court success now exactly?

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We had an elite coach but at the time of hire it wasn't a splash hire. I guess some fans didn't like going to the slower pace than they were use from the Hurryin Hoosiers. For the most part got elite players from 3 states but went outside to get a key player or two. We played very fundamental and played hard all the time. We had a coach that held everyone accountable and didn't coddle players no matter who you were.  We got players who mainly improved over their 4 years at IU.

[rcbowla 6,734]

We had an elite coach but at the time of hire it wasn't a splash hire. I guess some fans didn't like going to the slower pace than they were use from the Hurryin Hoosiers. For the most part got elite players from 3 states but went outside to get a key player or two. We played very fundamental and played hard all the time. We had a coach that held everyone accountable and didn't coddle players no matter who you were.  We got players who mainly improved over their 4 years at IU.

Ok so by "get back to what IU was" people mean hire Bob Knight again?

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[IU Scott 2,375]

1 minute ago, rcs29 said:

Ok so by "get back to what IU was" people mean hire Bob Knight again?

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Kind of old but go back to the style of play where you have more ball movement and player movement. I hate the offense in basketball today and don't like all the pick in roll and isolation plays. If you don't have NBA talent players it doesn't work.  This is why the product we see today is so bad compared to the past. Having college players running pro offense is a disaster.

 

[kreigh8 2,008]

25 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

We had an elite coach but at the time of hire it wasn't a splash hire. I guess some fans didn't like going to the slower pace than they were use from the Hurryin Hoosiers. For the most part got elite players from 3 states but went outside to get a key player or two. We played very fundamental and played hard all the time. We had a coach that held everyone accountable and didn't coddle players no matter who you were.  We got players who mainly improved over their 4 years at IU.

Didn't most players also stick around for 4 years in whatever time frame you're referring too? If you're worth a crap and playing at the level at IU or "elite programs", you're a rare breed for a guy to stick around that long today from what I've seen. Maybe NIL will change that a bit, but I doubt it

[Golfman25 4,661]

1 hour ago, kreigh8 said:

If uniforms were that important, Oregon would be landing far more top basketball players than they do. Just finding the "Knight mentality" is something IU just can't quit.

 

• IU fanbase clamoring to recruit Indiana and the tri-state area as that's what Knight did in the 70's and 80's - cited as why Crean failed
• Archie recruits mostly Indiana guys, lands Romeo, he's going to succeed. Indiana guys turn out to be not very good and he can't land any big fish after Romeo
• Hire a former manager as AD as he knows what a successful basketball program at IU looks like 30-40 years ago
• AD hires Woodson. Former IU player 40 years ago who's been coaching only in the NBA  because he also knows what a quality IU bball program looks like 40 years ago

Perhaps there's some merit to return to that to find success - but that's quite some time ago and there's been a lot of changes since then: 3PT line, one-and-done, transfer portal.

Quoted you, but not directed at you. Just been a long time lurker here and this is a summarization of some of the views I've read so assuming that's generally views of most of the fanbase

Problem is the young folks don't have the wisdom of years of experience.  Recruiting your region works.  If you can't get the kids in your back yard, how the hell you going to get kids 1000s of miles away.  An elite program should be able to get the 1-2 best players in the state and 1 or 2 best players from the region.  You can fill in from there.  

And unfortunately, you have to go back 30 years because it's been a chit show since then.  The idea is a "bridge to the past."  Winning programs today have the same fundamental characteristics as winning programs 30 years ago.  It's starts with coaches who know their stuff.  Culture, accountability, pride, etc. all fill it out.    

[Golfman25 4,661]

16 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Kind of old but go back to the style of play where you have more ball movement and player movement. I hate the offense in basketball today and don't like all the pick in roll and isolation plays. If you don't have NBA talent players it doesn't work.  This is why the product we see today is so bad compared to the past. Having college players running pro offense is a disaster.

 

IMO, you have to blend.  Future NBA players don't want to play the "old motion offense."  But lessser talented players need that type of motion to compete.  This is the adjustment Woodson needs to make to be succesful -- Find that right balance based on the talent he has each year.  

[kreigh8 2,008]

7 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Problem is the young folks don't have the wisdom of years of experience.  Recruiting your region works.  If you can't get the kids in your back yard, how the hell you going to get kids 1000s of miles away.  An elite program should be able to get the 1-2 best players in the state and 1 or 2 best players from the region.  You can fill in from there.  

And unfortunately, you have to go back 30 years because it's been a chit show since then.  The idea is a "bridge to the past."  Winning programs today have the same fundamental characteristics as winning programs 30 years ago.  It's starts with coaches who know their stuff.  Culture, accountability, pride, etc. all fill it out.    

Archie brought in Phinisee, Lander, TJD, Franklin, Jerome Hunter (OH), Forester (OH), Damezi Anderson, Leal and Galloway.

Woodson has brought in Reneau from FL and JHS from PA who are going to be better basketball players than the entire lot above.

Does that still work?