IUBB @ Rutgers - Saturday, 12/3/22 @ 4:00 on BTN

[Rico 2,911]

5 minutes ago, TeeterInNJ said:

Next 3 games are going to tell us a lot. Hard to feel great after today, just so ugly.

But before the UNC game, a lot of us were saying if we go 3-2 over the next 5 game stretch, we'd be satisfied. So we'll see.

Dropping the RU game makes 3-2 an awful lot harder, considering we're 1-1 now with Nebraska and Arizona in the next week, followed by Kansas on the road. 2-3 over this stretch feels like another "good, but not great" kind of year. Trying to remind myself there's a lot of season left and a lot of time for them to iron out the junk we saw out there today.

1981?  Is that you?

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

4 minutes ago, IU - Kaulie said:

I don’t have the time to go back into threads and quote your remarks but let’s not act like you don’t like to call him out.

Each game is played differently.  He’s going to have games where he scores and he’s going to have games he doesn’t.  His value in those games is just being on the court and what that opens up for the team.

I strongly disagree about his defense.  He is so active with his hands and is almost always in the right position.  His defense is seriously undervalued.

I can agree about rebounding if you want to nitpick.  He is not rebounder.  TJD is not a jump shooter.  So what?

He should be starting and I think his minutes are about right.  If anything he should get a few more minutes.

Kopp is fine and his twos looked pretty good today.  I’m really going to miss him when he’s gone.

Is it calling him out or trashing him? Those are two extremely different things. Yes, I do call him out.

Sure, if our guards are getting in the lane and we're converting there is absolutely value there. That comes with a big IF on the other end of the floor in that he isn't going to get beat. His ability to defend changes drastically between little sisters of the poor and Big 1.o opponents. If he's a net positive he should get plenty of run. When he's not he should be sitting the bench. That goes for any player on the team.

Watch the difference between others helping in the lane and getting back out to their man and when Kopp does it. The opponent gets consistent looks when Kopp is that defender. Also, for whatever reason Kopp and whatever other defender gets confused on ball screens. There was an obvious example in the game today when Kopp gave up a wide open layup when he and TJD had a simple ball screen at the top of the key. That happens quite a bit. You could probably find 100+ examples of just these two areas in Kopp's 40ish games at IU. That's not including when he gets straight beat by a more athletic opponent. I'm sure we'll see plenty of that as we get further into the Big 1.o season. There is a reason why he's typically not on the floor late in games where we have the lead.

Slight difference in rebounding and jump shooting although TJD should be capable of making a jump shot. Everyone should be rebounding, not getting rebounds out of your 3 leads to some of what we've seen with the rebounding issues. When the ball hits your hands or lands in your lap and you struggle to control it there are problems.

Who would replace Kopp in the starting lineup? Maybe Gallo? He's better off the bench. Bates? He needs to improve in multiple areas before he's starting. I was afraid we wouldn't see the jump with Bates that a lot of talented players see from their freshman to sophomore years. Really hope he (Bates) figures it out.

He did convert on his twos today. I'm happy he made them. He still should be taking fewer or none at all.

I don't think we'll miss Kopp as much as we'll miss others. Hopefully, some of the wings in waiting will make that jump before next season starts.

 

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

21 minutes ago, TeeterInNJ said:

I think XJ, TJD, Race and Miller all lead in different ways. I agree we need Xavier to be more consistent and level headed though. Tonight was so frustrating. I'm hoping we see a different attitude vs. Nebraska. 

The other issue with that is what have these guys actually won? A few games in the Big 1.o tourney and a NCAA tourney play-in game? I'm hoping with Ren and Fin having won at a high level in high school along with a few others we'll start to see a little progress in winning games that matter.

[IU - Kaulie 1,866]

10 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

He’s shot the ball well this season. I don’t expect him to stay at 50%, but if he can hit 40% like he did as a sophomore that’d be great. I don’t feel strongly about him either way. I don’t think he’s great, and ideally he wouldn’t be starting, but he’s the best we have at that position. 

I will 100% agree with you that he is the best we have at that position and it’s not even close.  I just think he takes a lot of unfair criticism on here from a few posters (not directed at you) and that’s really a shame for those that can’t see the value he brings.  

[Hoosierfan2017 19,886]

11 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Yep....if Bates could consistently knock shots down or not get lost occasionally on offense, Kopp wouldn't be starting.  Anyone getting mad at Kopp starting should be more upset that no one has legitimately taken the spot from him.

Bates has been the biggest disappointment by far for me. The player he was billed as coming out of high school is exactly the kind of player we need, but he’s just not been good 

[cthomas 5,917]

8 minutes ago, Rico said:

1981?  Is that you?

Probably the most frustrated I have ever been with an IU basketball team. So much talent, but only 7-5 in December. But then, that turned out alright.

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

13 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

I'm not sure what really be eye rolling about what you said.  TJD seems like a quiet guy and not one who gets in people's faces.  It is what it is.  Leadership shows itself in different ways and he certainly has had his game rise to the occasion more often than not.  Today he didn't, but if you are looking for a guy that is vocal and challenging other guys and getting in their faces, that's not his MO.

Disappointing game for X today as he had been really good lately.

I don't expect TJD to get in anyone's face. He's quiet but enjoyed celebrating after big plays even while losing. He tried talking a win against Rutger into existence but didn't back it up. His individual play is not a problem and he's been the only shiny spot on plenty of turd games throughout his time at IU. You'd like your best player to be a little better leader though. Fouling out just so you don't have to endure that shitshow any longer is one of plenty of times he's shown poor leadership. It doesn't matter in this game but the perception is there and has been there. I appreciate him in an IU uniform for my younger relatives to look up to.

[RaceToTheTop 23,571]

5 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Bates has been the biggest disappointment by far for me. The player he was billed as coming out of high school is exactly the kind of player we need, but he’s just not been good 

Honestly, I never feel when the ball leaves Bates hands on a three that it's going in.  

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

20 minutes ago, TeeterInNJ said:

Next 3 games are going to tell us a lot. Hard to feel great after today, just so ugly.

But before the UNC game, a lot of us were saying if we go 3-2 over the next 5 game stretch, we'd be satisfied. So we'll see.

Dropping the RU game makes 3-2 an awful lot harder, considering we're 1-1 now with Nebraska and Arizona in the next week, followed by Kansas on the road. 2-3 over this stretch feels like another "good, but not great" kind of year. Trying to remind myself there's a lot of season left and a lot of time for them to iron out the junk we saw out there today.

Not that we lost but how we lost. The same could be said for most of last season, too.

[IU Scott 2,375]

23 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Hot take:  next year this is Trey's team to lead.

You mean his 0 points on 31 minutes. I like Trey but he just is to inconsistent to me and he seems to only play well at home

[IU Scott 2,375]

14 hours ago, cthomas said:

Probably the most frustrated I have ever been with an IU basketball team. So much talent, but only 7-5 in December. But then, that turned out alright.

Also lost to Pan American 

[mbredenk101 524]

Except that the Big Ten is falling behind in recruiting, likely due to the style of play.  This year, JHS and Reneau are the only top 30 recruits (by 247) to commit to a Big Ten school and they were ranked 23 and 30.  In 2023, the top 30 have already committed and none are going to Big Ten schools.
It's not really deniable that the Big Ten has failed as a conference once the NCAA tournament has started.

Keep looking further back...like 22 years. It's eye opening. Even looking at the top 100 for each year is depressing numbers for the B1G.

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[IU - Kaulie 1,866]

5 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Is it calling him out or trashing him? Those are two extremely different things. Yes, I do call him out.

Sure, if our guards are getting in the lane and we're converting there is absolutely value there. That comes with a big IF on the other end of the floor in that he isn't going to get beat. His ability to defend changes drastically between little sisters of the poor and Big 1.o opponents. If he's a net positive he should get plenty of run. When he's not he should be sitting the bench. That goes for any player on the team.

Watch the difference between others helping in the lane and getting back out to their man and when Kopp does it. The opponent gets consistent looks when Kopp is that defender. Also, for whatever reason Kopp and whatever other defender gets confused on ball screens. There was an obvious example in the game today when Kopp gave up a wide open layup when he and TJD had a simple ball screen at the top of the key. That happens quite a bit. You could probably find 100+ examples of just these two areas in Kopp's 40ish games at IU. That's not including when he gets straight beat by a more athletic opponent. I'm sure we'll see plenty of that as we get further into the Big 1.o season. There is a reason why he's typically not on the floor late in games where we have the lead.

Slight difference in rebounding and jump shooting although TJD should be capable of making a jump shot. Everyone should be rebounding, not getting rebounds out of your 3 leads to some of what we've seen with the rebounding issues. When the ball hits your hands or lands in your lap and you struggle to control it there are problems.

Who would replace Kopp in the starting lineup? Maybe Gallo? He's better off the bench. Bates? He needs to improve in multiple areas before he's starting. I was afraid we wouldn't see the jump with Bates that a lot of talented players see from their freshman to sophomore years. Really hope he (Bates) figures it out.

He did convert on his twos today. I'm happy he made them. He still should be taking fewer or none at all.

I don't think we'll miss Kopp as much as we'll miss others. Hopefully, some of the wings in waiting will make that jump before next season starts.

 

Again, I’m not going to go back through the threads and quote your remarks.  The criticism he receives on here by a select few is unfair in my opinion.  

He is fine at his position we don’t need anyone to replace him.  I love Trey Galloway as much as anyone (although some of that is for different reasons) but his value is what he brings off the bench.  Their were even calls by some for Geronimo to start at his spot this year.  No thanks.

The holes on this team are not with Kopp and his starting or his minutes or whatever.  Our bench outside of Gallo and Reneau have to play better or we need to give the other two freshman some meaningful minutes in their place.  Geronimo has shown flashes and always plays hard and that’s fine for a bench player.  I always thought the Oladipo talk was absurd.  Bates is a little different.  Outside of 1 game he has really struggled.  He made two awful plays against UNC and when he came in tonight we were making our run and he came in and the player he was guarding went off.  Woodson couldn’t get him out fast enough.  My expectations for him were higher coming in but it hasn’t happened.  At this point I would like to see Gunn get some meaningful minutes and see what he’s got.

[Uspshoosier 44,205]

[Southside 1,914]

 

Watched, but wasn't able to be glued due to people/stuff lol... .. 

The box score mirrors most of my thoughts, but....

A few questions to those that were lucky to be glued... 

• Seems the missing ingredient was JHS. Both D and ball movement. Thoughts?
• O was super meh, except for Kopp who was great on O, but super soft on D. 
• The bench was super meh.. 
• X and Race were bad.. at least X played D, but was still sloppy?

[rcbowla 6,733]

I feel today's loss is a bigger issue than just one game. Only because it exemplifies all our struggles last several years. We can still be good but not sure about elite. We need to be elite

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I never thought we'd be elite this year. I thought we could be very good. What does that mean? Idk honestly but I guess top 3 in conference, top 4-5 seed in tourney with a chance to make a decent run. If people were hoping to go 18-2 in B1G and get a 1 or 2 seed then they were destined for disappointment imo. This team can be very good but will always have it's limitations.

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[coonhounds 8,690]

I never thought we'd be elite this year. I thought we could be very good. What does that mean? Idk honestly but I guess top 3 in conference, top 4-5 seed in tourney with a chance to make a decent run. If people were hoping to go 18-2 in B1G and get a 1 or 2 seed then they were destined for disappointment imo. This team can be very good but will always have it's limitations.

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I was and still hoping for a top 25 and a 5 seed or higher. Tea 8m that played today could be 8 or 9 seed

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[HoosierFan1994 4,609]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

You mean his 0 points on 31 minutes. I like Trey but he just is to inconsistent to me and he seems to only play well at home

I like Trey Galloway coming off the bench. Wish coach would've started Tamar. Would it have made a difference? No..I know Trey played a great game Wednesday but again, love his energy off the bench. 

[HoosierFan1994 4,609]

Finally finished the rest of the game..

1) Really thought IU was going to take off when they took the lead early in the 2nd half. 

2) I'm not hitting the panic button. It's pathetic they played like this and scored only 48 points. But, I could tell once I heard JHS was out and that Mulcahy was playing that was a plus for them and a minus for us.

3) Pikiell has built a great culture at Rutgers. I can't stand them like Wisconsin. I hate their style of play. Indiana has to figure out how to beat them, especially after a big win. Note: IU Plays Purdue February 4 and Rutgers February 7..come ready this next time. 

4) Literally everyone outside of Miller was terrible. Odds of that happening again are very slim. Indiana was very very bad today. The Purple Aces of Evansville could have beaten them today with the way they played. 

5) Something to chew on..X and Trayce really carried IU offensively against Xavier and UNC. The other players to really contribute were Malik against Xavier (he's been terrible the last two games) and Jalen (out today). I hate they wasted what will probably be Miller's best game of the year. But, someone else has to step up and be a consistent force on offense. We can't always play Morehead State and Jackson State...

6) Not bashing Race but I'm not surprised his numbers are going down. I never thought he was as good as the minutes he was getting. I hope he rebounds but that's not a performance you want to see from a 6th year senior. It looked like he was just moping around...and it reflected with the whole team. I know this is Trayce's team but he's #2 as far as leadership goes. He needs to wake up. 

Won't be a fun few days in Bloomington I'm sure. Little bit of reality hit them today. Move on to Nebraska and get ready for the big games ahead. No need to panic, but things need to be addressed. This team was pretty much perfect in November. You could not have asked for a better start. We as fans need to be happy about that while also realizing this is a marathon not a sprint. I'll take being 7-1..would have rather lost at Xavier and beaten Rutgers though..

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

1 hour ago, IU - Kaulie said:

Again, I’m not going to go back through the threads and quote your remarks.  The criticism he receives on here by a select few is unfair in my opinion.  

He is fine at his position we don’t need anyone to replace him.  I love Trey Galloway as much as anyone (although some of that is for different reasons) but his value is what he brings off the bench.  Their were even calls by some for Geronimo to start at his spot this year.  No thanks.

The holes on this team are not with Kopp and his starting or his minutes or whatever.  Our bench outside of Gallo and Reneau have to play better or we need to give the other two freshman some meaningful minutes in their place.  Geronimo has shown flashes and always plays hard and that’s fine for a bench player.  I always thought the Oladipo talk was absurd.  Bates is a little different.  Outside of 1 game he has really struggled.  He made two awful plays against UNC and when he came in tonight we were making our run and he came in and the player he was guarding went off.  Woodson couldn’t get him out fast enough.  My expectations for him were higher coming in but it hasn’t happened.  At this point I would like to see Gunn get some meaningful minutes and see what he’s got.

So you feel like he receives unfair criticism and it's not players trashing him? You're willing to state posters are trashing him but not willing to find the evidence that doesn't exist? That makes a lot of sense. I do call out players because they can reach several more levels than they've played at during their IU careers.

Yes, he is fine at his position for a solid Big 1.o team. I'd prefer the team to be at a higher level than that which would require an upgrade at the starting wing position. His isn't the only position that needs an upgrade and again it goes back to culture. I was hoping that a few players would make leaps over the off-season but it really hasn't shown that much. I didn't think Bates would make the improvement some thought he would. Having other commitments outside school and basketball at a young age is extremely difficult.

Are you criticizing Bates? Is it okay to criticize a bench player but not a starter?