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Class of '66 Old Fart

IUBB at Xavier - Friday, 11/18/22 @ 6:00 on FS1

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25 minutes ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

I understand what you’re saying, but both of those were BAD. Right in front of the ref each time. No way you’re gonna get away with that - especially on the road.

Those are technical fouls that SHOULD be called every time. But we can’t worry about whether or not they are called on the other team; we need to be concerned about ourselves. Damn, those almost cost us the game.

Not gonna argue if they "should" have been called, but it wasn't consistent for Xavier OR almost any other college game in the recent past. The announcers mentioned it's an emphasis this season, so that likely is the explanation, still it was not uniformly applied- at all- last night.

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9 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:


It’s simple really. Geronimo can do things that no one on the roster can do. He’s a right spot, right time rebounder. Can hit a three. Can play against bigs. He offers so much. He isn’t Bates level of bad decision making but it’s not good enough either. My hope and we’ve seen it at times, is he can be coached out of those errors. Biggest upside player getting split minutes.

X is kinda this example at the guard spot. Some awful decision making at times but he can make plays as well. It’s a bit of Ying and Yang.




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The only thing I would say though is that you can't get Reneau and Geronimo more minutes. The math doesn't work. 

In the games against non-cupcakes, we know TJD is getting a ton of minutes and there is only one more "big" spot between Race, Reneau and JG. 

If you're giving Reneau more minutes then that would come from Race. Where do more minutes for JG come from?

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He seems like a really good kid that’s a good athlete for sure.  He can hit the outside jumper and that’s nice.  He has a long way to go in terms of basketball skills and I don’t know if he will ever get there or not.  I mean dribbling and catching/holding onto the ball is an adventure.  If you compare his basketball skills to Reneau you can see the difference.  

 

I don’t know where he fits on this team.  He can’t play the three that’s for certain. Race and TJD are going to play a ton and Reneau needs as many minutes as possible.  That leaves little minutes for Geronimo.  I like how Woodson handled his minutes tonight.  He got in the game in the first half played 5 minutes and didn’t play well so he didn’t play again.  I suspect he will get another chance Sunday night and if he plays well he might see a few more minutes but if not he won’t play.  I do think he will have games where he will contribute but he will also have games like tonight.  His biggest opportunity to play will be if those three guys are in significant foul trouble.

I think a lot of fans are still waiting for him to ‘arrive’ but chasing his athleticism is fools gold.  He is an athlete that lacks some serious basketball skills.

I don’t like the comparison to X.  X makes some boneheaded plays for sure but he is a very highly skilled basketball player.  Geronimo is not.  A lot of fans I think see the athlete he is and just assume certain things.  I mean their has even been talk on here in the past comparing his trajectory to Oladipo and that’s just not who he is.  

I respect your thoughtful take but disagree to an extent on Geronimo. I agree Woodson was smart to play who he trusted last night. Bates is far away in the decision making category. We tend to disagree specifically on Geronimo, but last nights game probably isn’t where you want to test that out. He will be big for us imo this year, but clearly Reneau is earning extended playing time. Including over Race.

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

Yep.

You CAN’T taunt anyone right in front of the official and expert to get away with it - especially Johnson right in front of the Xavier bench. Incredibly stupid. Shut up and play!

From what I saw on the replay of the game, he looked at the bench but didn’t say anything.  IF that’s the case, that’s a tech you don’t call.

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15 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

No the refs gave them 4 points. Both were pathetic calls. 

Guess you need to listen to Woodson:

https://247sports.com/college/indiana/Article/Coach-TV-Indiana-basketball-coach-Mike-Woodsons-postgame-QA-after-IUs-81-79-win-at-Xavier-197925451/Amp/
 

“I’m gonna stay on ‘em because that can be the difference in winning and losing games. If you make shots, you’re supposed to make shots; if you make a dunk or layup, that’s what you’re supposed to do, so you don’t have to talk, do all the unnecessary things that get us in trouble.”

Smart. Don’t be dumb and possibly cost yourself a game.

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14 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

From what I saw on the replay of the game, he looked at the bench but didn’t say anything.  IF that’s the case, that’s a tech you don’t call.

I was there. X definitely said something right at the bench. Just hit a big 3, but then gives back two points. Don’t need to do that.

Edited by Tasmanian Devil

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The techs were garbage. I work with high school students on a daily basis, and so many of them worry about this person or that person looking at them or saying things to them. I try to teach them not to listen to it or to not let themselves be bothered by it. This is without the heat of competition involved. Add that in, and I can see why the refs want to try to curb it. But my opinion sits where these players are not robots, and taunting/trash talk is part of sports. The players need to learn how to handle it without the refs affecting the game. It was not called consistently and Xavier (the team) could stare down whoever they wanted.

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7 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I respect your thoughtful take but disagree to an extent on Geronimo. I agree Woodson was smart to play who he trusted last night. Bates is far away in the decision making category. We tend to disagree specifically on Geronimo, but last nights game probably isn’t where you want to test that out. He will be big for us imo this year, but clearly Reneau is earning extended playing time. Including over Race.

 

 

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Wouldn’t surprise me at all if Malik is a starter soon. Kid played like a stud last night, and can still play a lot better.

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1 minute ago, mbredenk101 said:

The techs were garbage. I work with high school students on a daily basis, and so many of them worry about this person or that person looking at them or saying things to them. I try to teach them not to listen to it or to not let themselves be bothered by it. This is without the heat of competition involved. Add that in, and I can see why the refs want to try to curb it. But my opinion sits where these players are not robots, and taunting/trash talk is part of sports. The players need to learn how to handle it without the refs affecting the game. It was not called consistently and Xavier (the team) could stare down whoever they wanted.

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I’m not in favor of staring down guys, either. Whether that should be called or not can be debated.

But you CAN’T woof toward an opponent - especially the opponent’s bench - right in front of the official and expect to get by with it. If it’s true that the announcers said it’s a point of emphasis this year, even more of a reason to keep yourself in check.

Again, I go back to this: What do you GAIN by doing it vs what it could COST you? Control the things you can control.

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7 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I don’t disagree with you. It's just a tricky slope though, as if we're going down this path on this point of emphasis, then the refs need to apply it across the board. 

Freemantle was staring guys down all night. Xavier players were being quite demonstrative towards officials at numerous times when they disagreed with calls. Yet, no techs on them?

I'm not saying it was purposeful or anything, just saying this taunting tech thing is very subjective and can't be applied only in certain spots. I think the officialsade things worse last night, not better, with those techs. 

Oh, I get what you’re saying. But wanting guys to play with emotion can be tricky as well. 
 

Johnson is so much of a key to how good we can be. Do we REALLY want him talking smack and having it come back to bite us? Last year we lost at Wisconsin and Syracuse in part because of X getting too emotionally charged. 
 

I remember Anderson Madison Heights coach Phil Buck being interviewed after beating Anderson Highland for the 1982 sectional championship. Highland had Butch Stafford as coach, and he would run his mouth constantly about how good the Scots were. He was so bad,  when Highland beat Anderson in the semifinals in a close game one of the Anderson cheerleaders spit on him.

After the Pirates beat the Scots on two Stew Robinson FTs with 1 second left (after a stupid foul at halfcourt by Highland), Buck was asked about Stafford basically guaranteeing a win before the game and what Buck had to say now after winning the championship.

His response was epic: “If you’re good, you don’t need to talk.”

Sound advice from an all time coaching legend.

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18 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I don’t disagree with you. It's just a tricky slope though, as if we're going down this path on this point of emphasis, then the refs need to apply it across the board. 

Freemantle was staring guys down all night. Xavier players were being quite demonstrative towards officials at numerous times when they disagreed with calls. Yet, no techs on them?

I'm not saying it was purposeful or anything, just saying this taunting tech thing is very subjective and can't be applied only in certain spots. I think the officials made things worse last night, not better, with those techs. 

I think you are spot on.  Freemantle had a couple of dunks and stared our guys down but they were just calling it on us.  The nature of this is just way too subjective.  Just let the kids play.

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14 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Completely agree. Freemantle literally turned around and stared down Galloway after his oop dunk. Like, he had to turn back around to stare at him. 

How is that any different then what IU guys did?

http://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/35055281
 

Did he turn around after the dunk? Yeah - as he was running back down the court. He didn’t stop and visibly motion toward Trey.

Yes, Jones probably should have been T’d up. But, again, you’re on the road, tough environment. You can ***** all you want about the calls “not being fair”, but more times than not you’re going to have calls not go your way on the road.

What I do know is you can’t demonstrably react towards the opposition and expect to get by with it - especially on the road. Why make a tough situation worse? Get your comments in during the handshake line.

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7 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

I love when fans say “just shut up and play”

as if they (the fans) will “just shut up and watch” …

Fans are supposed to. Players can get T’d up for it - and cost their team points. And possibly the game.

Is stopping and woofing towards the opponent worth that much? Argue all you want about whether it should be called or not, but is it really worth it? Versus what it might cost you?

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8 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

FWIW, Woody was quoted as saying X never said anything to the Xavier bench and TJD tweeted the same thing.

From where I sat, it sure looked like he did. He hit the 3, turned and gestured toward the bench. 
 

if you going to do anything, don’t make it obvious. Both guys did - and got called for it.

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