2022-23 IUBB AP/Coaches Polls

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,181]

1 hour ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Yeah I'm just unclear at this point on what the root cause of our low shooting was. Agree Stewart did not fit last year. On the other hand, Kopp took a really low number of shots, and last time I checked we shot on volume from outside comparable to what we shot under CAM, which goes directly against why we brought in outside shooters in the first place. I'm not meaning to critique Woodson/Staff's offense directly, we used the front court  / TJD well and he's outstanding, but, yeah, why continue to start Stewart if he's having virtually no positive impact, and we can't be a one-dimensional team offensively and expect to run deep, and generally why bring in 3-point shooters to stand around and not shoot? I don't buy that we create spacing by the 'threat' of having them out there, when they barely shoot -- that's easy scouting.

I do think having JHS this season, together with X, is going to make a real difference in how we use the perimeter, and inside-out play. If we don't, I would have a real problem with running a one-dimensional offense this year (but again don't expect it). Related, wing play should be better, though still not deep, I expect Bates is going make a significantly better impact, and with JHS, guys like Galloway and JG (who has already shown he can shoot from deep and I'd bank on seeing better outside shooting from him to go along with attacking the rim) I think are going to vamp up their impact as well. 

The problem last year was the same as the few years before that. Slow moving offense, lazy screens, lazy cuts, no urgency on offense, slow developing plays, reluctant shooters, no slashers, robotic movement, an almost "learning the play" speed at all times. When you can't shoot, you gotta move and move a lot and fast. 

[jepwatso 181]

16 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Slow moving offense, lazy screens, lazy cuts, no urgency on offense, slow developing plays, reluctant shooters, no slashers, robotic movement, an almost "learning the play" speed at all times.

Is that all? :)

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,181]

22 minutes ago, jepwatso said:

Is that all? :)

I think it about covers it lol

[DWB 1,098]

22 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I think it about covers it lol

You failed to mention the ability to make outside shots...lol

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

Spacing and shot making would be at the top besides the typical leadership and e and e.


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[HoosierHoopster 6,023]

2 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

The problem last year was the same as the few years before that. Slow moving offense, lazy screens, lazy cuts, no urgency on offense, slow developing plays, reluctant shooters, no slashers, robotic movement, an almost "learning the play" speed at all times. When you can't shoot, you gotta move and move a lot and fast. 

I see this problem -- the very low outside shooting numbers -- as a reflection of the offensive strategy, not lazy screens and cuts by players, or "urgency." The coaches dictate the offenses to be run, including how outside shooting is utilized. We went from a high-level outside shooting team under Crean (often with mediocre to poor D, though not always) to a team that simply did not use the perimeter under CAM, and virtually overnight.

We shot by numbers at the bottom of the B1G. That's not laziness, it's strategy / offensive sets -- we went inside as much as possible with TJD and Race. We supposedly brought in outside shooters in Kopp and Stewart to grow our outside game, but almost nothing changed. We absolutely should see improvement in outside shooting -- not just percentages but in volume / how it's used -- this season. If we don't, something is wrong.

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,725]

3 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

The problem last year was the same as the few years before that. Slow moving offense, lazy screens, lazy cuts, no urgency on offense, slow developing plays, reluctant shooters, no slashers, robotic movement, an almost "learning the play" speed at all times. When you can't shoot, you gotta move and move a lot and fast. 

Everyone is picking on this but watch 5 minutes of Parker Stewart and 5 minutes of Sacha Stefanovich and it would have you believing almost every last part of this.  The question is how much of that is offensive strategy.  I hated that Kopp and Stewart mostly stood in position and never moved except for set plays/end of clock/etc.    Sacha ran 10 miles a game and whoever defended him was wore out.  Lots of other examples, but he comes to mind.  Could also be, our shooters weren't good enough shooters off screens to run much of that offense.  Heck, they barely could hit set shots.  

Anyway, Offensively the screens and cuts did leave a lot to be desired.  Not having slashers, besides X and sometime Trey hurt us too.  Too many 1 dimensional players.  That's way I saw Bates being so important as a potential 3 level scorer.  He just wasn't quite ready yet.  

[cthomas 5,917]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Everyone is picking on this but watch 5 minutes of Parker Stewart and 5 minutes of Sacha Stefanovich and it would have you believing almost every last part of this.  The question is how much of that is offensive strategy.  I hated that Kopp and Stewart mostly stood in position and never moved except for set plays/end of clock/etc.    Sacha ran 10 miles a game and whoever defended him was wore out.  Lots of other examples, but he comes to mind.  Could also be, our shooters weren't good enough shooters off screens to run much of that offense.  Heck, they barely could hit set shots.  

Anyway, Offensively the screens and cuts did leave a lot to be desired.  Not having slashers, besides X and sometime Trey hurt us too.  Too many 1 dimensional players.  That's way I saw Bates being so important as a potential 3 level scorer.  He just wasn't quite ready yet.  

I'm not ready to believe that this falls on CMW. He played 4 years in Coach Knight's motion offense. He also played and then coached with NBA talent. He is apparently well respected in the league. So, I have a hard time believing that he was to blame for what our offense looked like last year. I don't think knowledge is his problem. Maybe adapting that knowledge to less talented college players is. Now that he has had a year to process everything, I hope that CMW's vast experience will manifest itself on the court.

[TheWatShot 13,335]

Sampson's first season, there were a lot of complaints about how the offense looked just like a Mike Davis team: slow, lacked movement, couldn't score, etc. It got better as his first season went on, and looked totally different the next year. I'm hoping the same holds true here. 

[IUFAN1976 2,232]

On 10/17/2022 at 1:12 PM, HoosierTrav said:

Not bad. I’m pretty critical of this program and I truly believe that this years team, based off of roster construction, is a top 5-8 team. 

I think they are ranked about right because this current group hasn’t accomplished a lot outside of finally making the tournament; however, I do think they could be a top 10 team but they have to have better outside shooting and ball movement!

This comment is about the many comments on Woodson’s offense last year.  It was his 1st year and he concentrated so much on putting his defensive philosophy in, he didn’t teach or install a lot of offensive schemes until he got X and TJD to do the pick and roll.  That definitely paid off.  Now over a full year of most of the players playing for CMW and adding talented freshman, the offense should flow better, IMO

[ziggyiu 543]

3 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

Sampson's first season, there were a lot of complaints about how the offense looked just like a Mike Davis team: slow, lacked movement, couldn't score, etc. It got better as his first season went on, and looked totally different the next year. I'm hoping the same holds true here. 

His second season also featured Eric Gordon. 

[Rico 2,911]

13 hours ago, ziggyiu said:

His second season also featured Eric Gordon. 

As well as featuring phone calls...

[HoosierHoopster 6,023]

1 hour ago, Rico said:

As well as featuring phone calls...

[Baltimore Hoosier 986]

Still need to find a guy or two that can hit treys with some consistency. Still the biggest weakness for IU imo. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,181]

Been a loooooooong time since seeing one of those little numbers next to "Indiana."

[IUc2016 6,923]

13 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Been a loooooooong time since seeing one of those little numbers next to "Indiana."

Since when? Archie’s second season?

way too long. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,181]

1 hour ago, IUc2016 said:

Since when? Archie’s second season?

way too long. 

I think January 14th or something like that of Romeo's freshman season. It was ALL downhill from there. 

[TheWatShot 13,335]

2 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I think January 14th or something like that of Romeo's freshman season. It was ALL downhill from there. 

Our last game with a ranking was a loss at Purdue. I remember it well. Our Mr. Basketball winner stood in the corner all day and finished with 4 points. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,181]

18 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

Our last game with a ranking was a loss at Purdue. I remember it well. Our Mr. Basketball winner stood in the corner all day and finished with 4 points. 

Classic Archie offense. 

[LIHoosier 24,995]

IU 14th in the first Coaches poll, top B1G team

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