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nerdvana

UCLA and USC Joining the Big Ten

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20 Teams to me works better than 16. In football you have two divisions each team playing in the division. Then meeting one team in the championship game.  Could make New and Old big ten be the division. The original 10 and the new 10. 
 

Basketball you would have no divisions.  But one protected rivalry game.  Then play everybody else once.  Would make more more balanced schedules. 

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50 minutes ago, triple said:

I'm not up to speed on the inner workings of the conference, but are you suggesting that the B1G added two programs without the Commissioner's knowledge?  I'm just trying to understand how that would even be possible (e.g. who then negotiated with USC and UCLA)...rogue athletic directors?).  

I could very well be wrong, as I'm sure not enough information is out yet and I'd have to dig to find the tweet I saw yesterday.

But yes, USC and UCLA were collaborating with one another and approached the B1G about joining. Obviously at some point Warren and the chancellors decided they couldn't say no to that, and I don't blame them.

It just wasn't some masterful job on Warren's part to bring the 2 schools to the table. 

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11 hours ago, DChoosier said:

Is Stanford also a possibility with the SF tv market?

Highly doubt it.

Silicon Valley doesn't care about Stanford athletics all that much. They don't have a huge national following either. 

Stanford doesn't add much outside of academics.

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This "more is better" approach to conferences is silly and destructive in my opinion. Rutgers and UCLA are going to be in the same "conference"...how does that make sense in any way?   

Kind of like plastic surgery, at some point you end up with a grotesque result that is the opposite of what you wanted.

 

Before after.JPG

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59 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

 Videoconferencing in from London, where he was meeting with potential conference sponsors and partners, Warren told his constituents that the Bruins and the Trojans had approached him about joining the league.

Thanks, I'm not doubting he was pulled in at some point. Obviously that would have to happen.

The part I quoted is more what I'm referring to, similar to how the SEC added OU and UT. If 2 schools of that magnitude approach you about joining, all you have to do is say yes and convince the rest of the conference to do the same. Easier sell than if Washington State and Oregon State approached.

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12 hours ago, IUFootballEndlessMisery said:

So, I think the Big Ten wants to go all in and up the league to 20, and considering that the Association of American Universities is likely still going to play a key factor, as well as finances and logistics, here's my picks:

*Stanford and Cal: Northern California is a big market, alumni-wise, even if it doesn't have the media reach, plus it would help with travel for USC and UCLA.  And, as far as the academics go, you can't go wrong with two University of California members as well as a major private institution out west, plus it could be used as collateral to bring in Notre Dame if you choose.

*Duke and North Carolina: If you're going to kill one former Alliance member, why not kill the other?  Duke would be brought in for stellar academics and health research, and North Carolina would be brought in for cancer care.  Oh, and uh, basketball.  The downside would be neither are known for their football, but if you get Stanford and Cal, why would that be a problem?

*Kansas and Iowa State: The benefits here would be shoring up your region even further and cementing a natural rivalry with Iowa.  The problems, however, are big.  For starters, Iowa State is NOT an AAU school.  Second, Iowa State is inconsistent in the major sports, and Kansas is horrible at football at the moment.  And third, you would sacrifice potential windfall in other regions that you could get with these schools than by going for other regions.

*Oregon and Washington: Similar to Stanford and Cal, you'd shore up the entire Pacific Coast, but you'll jilt the state schools in the process, whom, let's face it, are destined for the Mountain West.

If I had to say which of the pairs the Big Ten would aim for, it'd definitely be Stanford and Cal & Duke and North Carolina.

I think this might be the direction it's heading. But who knows. I believe the pair they just picked up from the PAC 12 is probably best that conference had to offer. I mean Oregon and maybe Stanford could really add muscle but overall it makes way more sense to pick up UCLA/USC over any other PAC 12 school. Personally, I would pick up a pair from the Big 12 and a pair from the ACC. This would probably help with regional coverages across the nation. 

My picks would be either Duke/UNC or FSU/Miami from the ACC and Baylor/Kansas or Baylor/Texas Tech from the Big 12.

These schools (minus Kansas) compete in football but most importantly completely destroy the SEC in basketball. I really like the idea of picking up FSU/Miami because that puts the Big Ten Conference right in SEC land.

The SEC is probably scrambling today to try to pick up more schools as well. And I wouldn't be surprised if the schools on the list are schools you and I have mentioned here. So it's gonna be a race to pick them up. Because yesterday the B1G just shot a across the SEC bow.

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5 minutes ago, AKHoosier said:

Thanks, I'm not doubting he was pulled in at some point. Obviously that would have to happen.

The part I quoted is more what I'm referring to, similar to how the SEC added OU and UT. If 2 schools of that magnitude approach you about joining, all you have to do is say yes and convince the rest of the conference to do the same. Easier sell than if Washington State and Oregon State approached.

The process started way before this week's Zoom calls though: 

"a subset of Big Ten members had already vetted these potential expansion targets."

 The LA schools reached out first, but Warren and the working group he formed after SEC expansion had already been studying up on/speaking with potential additions to the conference as far back as May. Warren is still an all-time Dumb Guy, but I think he and the conference nailed this one. The LA schools were a no-brainer, agree; I'm interested to see who else they have in mind as additions.

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2 hours ago, IGotMeAWoody said:

ND is somewhat realistic, but Kansas would have never gotten an offer. Yes, their basketball program is worth a ton of money, but still nothing compared to an decent football program. B10 is only interested in expanding media markets and that sweet sweet football $$$.

ND & Kansas media markets combined probably doesn't even have half the value of capturing Southern CA.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
 

Just googled it. Found data from 2016-2017 so these numbers are  bit dated. ND is in the "South Bend-Elkhart" market. Ranked 96th with at 313,210 TV homes. Kansas would be under the "Wichita-Hutchinson Plus" market. Ranked 66th with 439,760 TV homes. USC and UCLA are in the "LA" market. Ranked #2 with 5,476,830 TV homes, which represents an insane 4.77% of the US.

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Obviously, geography doesn't matter anymore..... If the B10 is still shopping, their top targets should be....

  1. ND - see below
  2. Miami - need to get the FL market, and southern teams in general before the SEC expands more. 
  3. North Carolina
  4. Baylor (TX market)
  5. Oregon (more W Coast)
  6. FSU
  7. Clemson
  8. Boston College (Boston market)
  9. AZ or ASU
  10. Houston

Forget about Stanford. Their fans stink. FB and BB are both down. Only benefit really is academic scores. 

If talking about "market" value, ND is a national market. They are consistently a top 5 nationally watched team. Bama, LSU, OhioSt, and Meatchicken are the other 4. But in terms of ND, you're not going after them for their MW or local market. 

To add, Fox and ESPN co-own the B10 media rights, but that expires in 2023. NBC, who owns the ND contract through 2025, is known to be making an aggressive push for the B10 rights. 

That could push ND to either join the B10, or dump NBC lol. Regardless, of the most watched CFB teams, ND is the loan crown jewel not affiliated with either the SEC or B10. Given they're attractive in both viewership and academics, and solid in both major sports, might end up in a nice bidding war between the SEC and B10.  

Of they could be hard headed and remain independent, choosing to form their own conference with other academic or religious institutes that also happen to be good in sports. BYU, Stanford, Liberty, SMU, TCU, etc., and perhaps the military teams. 

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1 hour ago, IGotMeAWoody said:

Just googled it. Found data from 2016-2017 so these numbers are  bit dated. ND is in the "South Bend-Elkhart" market. Ranked 96th with at 313,210 TV homes. Kansas would be under the "Wichita-Hutchinson Plus" market. Ranked 66th with 439,760 TV homes. USC and UCLA are in the "LA" market. Ranked #2 with 5,476,830 TV homes, which represents an insane 4.77% of the US.

Thanks for the numbers but, as is often the case, the numbers don’t tell the whole story.  ND’s impact on tv ratings extends waaayyyyy beyond the fact that South Bend is only the 96th rated tv market.  ND would pull a ton more eyeballs than their market size would indicate especially when they play PSU/OSU/UCLA/USC/UM (yes, I know some of those games have already happened). ND would also pull more Chicago, NYC and DC eyeballs when they played Northwestern, Rutgers and MD. I’m not a fan but their brand can’t be denied.

In football a team like Kansas, however, would add eyeballs that are relatively only in-line with their small market. Watching Kansas get mauled by OSU, or play a snoozer vs Maryland, would not exactly be must-watch tv. Obviously they would help with some basketball match-ups but football is driving the bus.

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1 minute ago, DChoosier said:

Thanks for the numbers but, as is often the case, the numbers don’t tell the whole story.  ND’s impact on tv ratings extends waaayyyyy beyond the fact that South Bend is only the 96th rated tv market.  ND would pull a ton more eyeballs than their market size would indicate especially when they play PSU/OSU/UCLA/USC/UM (yes, I know some of those games have already happened). ND would also pull more Chicago, NYC and DC eyeballs when they played Northwestern, Rutgers and MD. I’m not a fan but their brand can’t be denied.

In football a team like Kansas, however, would add eyeballs that are relatively only in-line with their small market. Watching Kansas get mauled by OSU, or play a snoozer vs Maryland, would not exactly be must-watch tv. Obviously they would help with some basketball match-ups but football is driving the bus.

I think ND would be a great addition, we are in agreement there. But if we are adding teams in pairs, we'd need to get a better school than Kansas to join with them. I know the idea was floated around at the time when Texas and OU announced their plans to join the SEC, but I think it was all bball fan chatter. I think we'd have to go after another ACC school like FSU or Clemson. 

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26 minutes ago, Southside said:

Obviously, geography doesn't matter anymore..... If the B10 is still shopping, their top targets should be....

  1. ND - see below
  2. Miami - need to get the FL market, and southern teams in general before the SEC expands more. 
  3. North Carolina
  4. Baylor (TX market)
  5. Oregon (more W Coast)
  6. FSU
  7. Clemson
  8. Boston College (Boston market)
  9. AZ or ASU
  10. Houston

Forget about Stanford. Their fans stink. FB and BB are both down. Only benefit really is academic scores. 

If talking about "market" value, ND is a national market. They are consistently a top 5 nationally watched team. Bama, LSU, OhioSt, and Meatchicken are the other 4. But in terms of ND, you're not going after them for their MW or local market. 

To add, Fox and ESPN co-own the B10 media rights, but that expires in 2023. NBC, who owns the ND contract through 2025, is known to be making an aggressive push for the B10 rights. 

That could push ND to either join the B10, or dump NBC lol. Regardless, of the most watched CFB teams, ND is the loan crown jewel not affiliated with either the SEC or B10. Given they're attractive in both viewership and academics, and solid in both major sports, might end up in a nice bidding war between the SEC and B10.  

Of they could be hard headed and remain independent, choosing to form their own conference with other academic or religious institutes that also happen to be good in sports. BYU, Stanford, Liberty, SMU, TCU, etc., and perhaps the military teams. 

Any pretense of academics might be out the window ($$$$$) but if the BT is targeting AAU schools (UCLA,USC and the entire BT except Nebraska are affiliated) 4 of the 11 schools you list qualify (ND, UNC, Oregon, AZ).  
I agree that the Stanford fan base is “weak” and they would not merit any consideration if they were located in the middle of no where. That being said they are in one of the largest tv markets in the country. There are 2 AAU schools (yes, I realize that might not matter any more) in that market, Stanford and Cal, and it would not surprise me if the network guys say “hey, Stanford (or Cal or both) is not an ideal choice but how else do we put our fingers into the SF-Oakland tv market?”

PS. I think at least another pair of teams will be added with a very strong likelihood of them being out west. I can’t imagine that USC/UCLA jumped on board being satisfied with Nebraska being their closest road opponent. I will not be surprised to see 2-4 from Oregon, Washington, Stanford, Cal and Arizona.

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14 minutes ago, IGotMeAWoody said:

I think ND would be a great addition, we are in agreement there. But if we are adding teams in pairs, we'd need to get a better school than Kansas to join with them. I know the idea was floated around at the time when Texas and OU announced their plans to join the SEC, but I think it was all bball fan chatter. I think we'd have to go after another ACC school like FSU or Clemson. 

I agree about Kansas.

I think FSU and Clemson are more SEC oriented but who knows? A couple of days ago I probably would have chuckled if you guessed that UCLA was joining the BT.

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3 hours ago, AKHoosier said:

Highly doubt it.

Silicon Valley doesn't care about Stanford athletics all that much. They don't have a huge national following either. 

Stanford doesn't add much outside of academics.

Stanford has the most NCAA Championships than of any school.  More than twice as many as any current Big Ten school.

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A few quick notes:

- TV people are driving this. It's FOX in particular. It's not the full picture just to say the LA school's reached out to the B1G. FOX brought these parties together. Similar to ESPN with OU and UT. 

- It's correct to state the quality of a university's athletic programs don't matter as much. It's more about market value. 

- Speaking of market value. It goes beyond if a school is located near a large city. Market value includes alumni and fan base. For example, many people talk about Oregon only bringing in Portland (21st largest TV market, or there about); however, it's more appropriate to think are there large concentrations of Oregon fans in Vegas, Boise, Phoenix,  etc. I truly don't know. This is just an example of how fans of a university across the country are more important that just thinking about the closest largest city to the university. 

- Research money is the other big consideration. Which universities have the biggest research institutions with diverse and overflowing revenue streams and findings/studies/insights that can be beneficial to other members of the conference? 

Like others have said, I don't think the LA schools joined without some assurance that the conference will at least consider adding at least two more institutions that meet all of these requirements and are also geographically closer to LA. No guarantees, but at least the promise to explore options. 

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Pretty sure I read that Kevin Warren was completely blindsided by this, as were the B1G chancellors. 

That numbskull just fell @$$-backwards into 2 of the most prestigious college athletics programs in the country. 

Do you know where?

EDIT- never mind asked and answered

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, DChoosier said:

Any pretense of academics might be out the window ($$$$$) but if the BT is targeting AAU schools (UCLA,USC and the entire BT except Nebraska are affiliated) 4 of the 11 schools you list qualify (ND, UNC, Oregon, AZ).  
I agree that the Stanford fan base is “weak” and they would not merit any consideration if they were located in the middle of no where. That being said they are in one of the largest tv markets in the country. There are 2 AAU schools (yes, I realize that might not matter any more) in that market, Stanford and Cal, and it would not surprise me if the network guys say “hey, Stanford (or Cal or both) is not an ideal choice but how else do we put our fingers into the SF-Oakland tv market?”

PS. I think at least another pair of teams will be added with a very strong likelihood of them being out west. I can’t imagine that USC/UCLA jumped on board being satisfied with Nebraska being their closest road opponent. I will not be surprised to see 2-4 from Oregon, Washington, Stanford, Cal and Arizona.

Doubt AAU is prerequisite. 

I mean it's nice and all, but not having it doesn't mean you're bad. 

If you're a fan of rankings, US News and a few others rank universities. BC is ranked ahead of most B10 schools, and is not AAU. Miami and FSU are both ranked better than several AAU B10 schools. AZ, while an AAU school, is near 100ish. UNC is AAU, but isn't ranked all that well, and has fake classes lol. Baylor is ranked ahead of MSU, Maryland, AZ, Kansas, Rutgers, Nebraska, 

Overall, I think some universities might get disqualified for poor academics, but for the most part, I think it's simply more of a $$ conversation now. 

I hope it's not Stanford. Totally lame fans, and both BB and FB are declining. I'd be happy with OR, WA, or one of the AZ schools. My preference though, is grabbing a top ACC school or two, or a team from TX. Given USC and UCLA instigated this whole thing, not sure they cared too much about the travel to begin with. 

Just to level set, LA to Seattle is almost a 3 hour flight. LA to Indy (in the middle of current B10 schools) is a little over 4 hours. The time zone shift will need the game times to adjust, but the flight times are nt exactly big deltas unless you're talking about Rutgers and Maryland. 

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