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I'm really not trying to be argumentative but what makes you think that any other generation had to be mentally tough? Obviously, there are those in every generation tougher than others- we tend to think of Depression era, or WWII era as mentally tougher, but what would have made Boomers or Gen Xers mentally tough? As JSHoosier said, every generation has thought the current young ones are weak/spoiled/morally bankrupt. This generation has been through everything that other generations have, and have dealt with being in school during a pandemic (handling those changes alone makes them pretty tough in my opinion). Again, not trying to argue, just am truly curious to hear the reasoning.
Not trying to argue either. I think a couple things have happened during the last 2 decades. One is the culture of victimization has completely shifted to just one side. Meaning it's easy to play the victim if you don't like how something is going for you rather than taking accountability for your actions and learning from them. Example: when I was a kid if I got spanked there was a reason for it and I sure as hell never thought to tell on my parents so that it didn't happen again, instead I tried not to repeat that behavior. Two is the creation of social media and how it's created closed minded cowards. Today people can talk **** under the veil of anonymity or a "keyboard" without repercussion. If you wanted to say something to someone before social media you took more care in what you were saying because it was more personal. That also made it so that generally there would be more of an open dialogue to where you'd hear the other person's side rather than live in an echo chamber. Today people fling accusations at someone and that someone is instantly guilty in the mind of public opinion. It's just been made too easy to be a victim and to be able to say whatever you want without any accountability. Again I'm not condoning abuse of any kind and think people should be held accountable for abuse if they are found to be guilty of that.....just for clarity.

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59 minutes ago, rcs29 said:

Not trying to argue either. I think a couple things have happened during the last 2 decades. One is the culture of victimization has completely shifted to just one side. Meaning it's easy to play the victim if you don't like how something is going for you rather than taking accountability for your actions and learning from them. Example: when I was a kid if I got spanked there was a reason for it and I sure as hell never thought to tell on my parents so that it didn't happen again, instead I tried not to repeat that behavior. Two is the creation of social media and how it's created closed minded cowards. Today people can talk **** under the veil of anonymity or a "keyboard" without repercussion. If you wanted to say something to someone before social media you took more care in what you were saying because it was more personal. That also made it so that generally there would be more of an open dialogue to where you'd hear the other person's side rather than live in an echo chamber. Today people fling accusations at someone and that someone is instantly guilty in the mind of public opinion. It's just been made too easy to be a victim and to be able to say whatever you want without any accountability. Again I'm not condoning abuse of any kind and think people should be held accountable for abuse if they are found to be guilty of that.....just for clarity.

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Appreciate the well-reasoned response- makes for good thought!!!

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1 hour ago, rcs29 said:

Not trying to argue either. I think a couple things have happened during the last 2 decades. One is the culture of victimization has completely shifted to just one side. Meaning it's easy to play the victim if you don't like how something is going for you rather than taking accountability for your actions and learning from them. Example: when I was a kid if I got spanked there was a reason for it and I sure as hell never thought to tell on my parents so that it didn't happen again, instead I tried not to repeat that behavior. Two is the creation of social media and how it's created closed minded cowards. Today people can talk **** under the veil of anonymity or a "keyboard" without repercussion. If you wanted to say something to someone before social media you took more care in what you were saying because it was more personal. That also made it so that generally there would be more of an open dialogue to where you'd hear the other person's side rather than live in an echo chamber. Today people fling accusations at someone and that someone is instantly guilty in the mind of public opinion. It's just been made too easy to be a victim and to be able to say whatever you want without any accountability. Again I'm not condoning abuse of any kind and think people should be held accountable for abuse if they are found to be guilty of that.....just for clarity.

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This is just my opinion based on anecdotal information... but it sure does seem like the younger generation knows how to handle social media better than the older generations. Especially when it comes to open vs. closed mindedness.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/9/2022 at 2:22 PM, go iu bb said:

Sounds like he should get fired but I think the article was correct in why he hasn't been and why he probably won't be: 

"Because Indiana volleyball is a non-revenue sport, sources said they believe the university thinks paying for the buyout in Aird’s contract is too expensive.

The IDS obtained Aird’s contract, which runs through 2024. Aird will earn an average of $256,000 per year over the next three years. According to the contract, if Indiana were to fire Aird, the university would still owe Aird half his base salary through the end of his contract."

I don't think IU has ever really cared about volleyball and they continue to not care to the detriment of the young women this guy harms.

I'm a Maryland Terrapins volleyball booster, so I thought I'd weigh in. 

I think IU actually cared about volleyball, at least in terms of wins and support from fans.  The Big 10 dominates women's volleyball (along with the PAC-12) and the schools take it seriously.  Some have per-game attendance in the thousands.  Most B1G schools don't want to be left behind, ashamed of their performance next to Nebraska and Penn State (which IU was, arguably).  If nothing else, Aird's huge salary is an indicator that IU wanted more.  Aird has a rep as a promoter too, wanting to build popularity and support for his team.  I think he saw the new arena as a commitment on that front from IU. 

His 15 players who left IU seems to include students who simply graduated but had a year of eligibility left, which is to be expected.  But he had two star freshmen leave after a year.   I count 3 more good players who left the sport or popped up at another school after taking a year off.  That seems high.  The worst blow is the loss of his star recruit in February, which is very late in the process.  

I was bitter when he left Maryland, I confess.  The school's entry into the Big Ten and Aird's hiring infused real energy into the program.  (He was assistant for a legendary PSU team).  So recruiting took off, with 4 or 5 top players committing or signing.  But when he left, most of his top players/recruits left too. 

Maybe Big Ten coaches feel licensed to be tough.  I found this  https://www.heraldtimesonline.com/story/sports/college/2018/03/09/aird-says-hoosiers-need-a-little-sauce/46874903/

Anyway, good luck.  There are lots of good coaches that won't cost IU nearly as much.

 

 

 

 

Edited by ironborn

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25 minutes ago, ironborn said:

I'm a Maryland Terrapins volleyball booster, so I thought I'd weigh in. 

I think IU actually cared about volleyball, at least in terms of wins and support from fans.  The Big 10 dominates women's volleyball (along with the PAC-12) and the schools take it seriously.  Some have per-game attendance in the thousands.  Most B1G schools don't want to be left behind, ashamed of their performance next to Nebraska and Penn State (which IU was, arguably).  If nothing else, Aird's huge salary is an indicator that IU wanted more.  Aird has a rep as a promoter too, wanting to build popularity and support for his team.  I think he saw the new arena as a commitment on that front from IU.  That said, according to my sources, the big paycheck is what drew him to IU.     

His 15 players who left IU seems to include students who simply graduated but had a year of eligibility left, which is to be expected.  But he had two star freshmen leave after a year.   I count 3 more good players who left the sport or popped up at another school after taking a year off.  That seems high.  The worst blow is the loss of his star recruit in February, which is very late in the process.  

I was bitter when he left Maryland, I confess.  The school's entry into the Big Ten and Aird's hiring infused real energy into the program.  (He was assistant for a legendary PSU team).  So recruiting took off, with 4 or 5 top players committing or signing.  But when he left, most of his top players/recruits left too.  He was about 2 years short of "turning Maryland's program around".  Now we're kind of stuck in the bottom half of the conference.

Yes, some UMD players really loved him.  One said she was heartbroken when he left (she's now a pro).  But another top player suffered a concussion and quit mid-season even after she was cleared to play again.  She transferred out before he left and later wrote scathing words about the program, calling it a "toxic" environment in a senior reflections piece about her college career (which she subsequently edited).  Maybe Big Ten coaches feel licensed to be tough.  I found this  https://www.heraldtimesonline.com/story/sports/college/2018/03/09/aird-says-hoosiers-need-a-little-sauce/46874903/

Anyway, good luck.  There are lots of good coaches that won't cost IU nearly as much.

 

 

 

 

Welcome to our world. Appreciate the insight. Jump in any time. Love the screen name. 

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4 hours ago, rcs29 said:

Not trying to argue either. I think a couple things have happened during the last 2 decades. One is the culture of victimization has completely shifted to just one side. Meaning it's easy to play the victim if you don't like how something is going for you rather than taking accountability for your actions and learning from them. Example: when I was a kid if I got spanked there was a reason for it and I sure as hell never thought to tell on my parents so that it didn't happen again, instead I tried not to repeat that behavior. Two is the creation of social media and how it's created closed minded cowards. Today people can talk **** under the veil of anonymity or a "keyboard" without repercussion. If you wanted to say something to someone before social media you took more care in what you were saying because it was more personal. That also made it so that generally there would be more of an open dialogue to where you'd hear the other person's side rather than live in an echo chamber. Today people fling accusations at someone and that someone is instantly guilty in the mind of public opinion. It's just been made too easy to be a victim and to be able to say whatever you want without any accountability. Again I'm not condoning abuse of any kind and think people should be held accountable for abuse if they are found to be guilty of that.....just for clarity.

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In terms of Aird, the IU program has went backwards AND players are leaving/don't want to play for Aird.  Whether or not you consider what he is doing as abuse, at the end of the day his tenure is that of a coach that should be terminated.  9th, 13th, 11th, three way tie for 11th in four years.....19 and 61 in conference.

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1 hour ago, Demo said:

Welcome to our world. Appreciate the insight. Jump in any time. Love the screen name. 

Thanks!  "ironborn" is a reference to Pittsburgh and some fictional pirates. 

Now that I look a little further  I see that more starters quit IU volleyball than I first counted, so maybe it's not a stretch to say 15 players quit before their senior year.  I would just buy Aird out and start over. 

 

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3 hours ago, ironborn said:

I'm a Maryland Terrapins volleyball booster, so I thought I'd weigh in. 

I think IU actually cared about volleyball, at least in terms of wins and support from fans.  The Big 10 dominates women's volleyball (along with the PAC-12) and the schools take it seriously.  Some have per-game attendance in the thousands.  Most B1G schools don't want to be left behind, ashamed of their performance next to Nebraska and Penn State (which IU was, arguably).  If nothing else, Aird's huge salary is an indicator that IU wanted more.  Aird has a rep as a promoter too, wanting to build popularity and support for his team.  I think he saw the new arena as a commitment on that front from IU.  That said, according to my sources, the big paycheck is what drew him to IU.     

His 15 players who left IU seems to include students who simply graduated but had a year of eligibility left, which is to be expected.  But he had two star freshmen leave after a year.   I count 3 more good players who left the sport or popped up at another school after taking a year off.  That seems high.  The worst blow is the loss of his star recruit in February, which is very late in the process.  

I was bitter when he left Maryland, I confess.  The school's entry into the Big Ten and Aird's hiring infused real energy into the program.  (He was assistant for a legendary PSU team).  So recruiting took off, with 4 or 5 top players committing or signing.  But when he left, most of his top players/recruits left too.  He was about 2 years short of "turning Maryland's program around".  Now we're kind of stuck in the bottom half of the conference.

Yes, some UMD players really loved him.  One said she was heartbroken when he left (she's now a pro).  But another top player suffered a concussion and quit mid-season even after she was cleared to play again.  She transferred out before he left and later wrote scathing words about the program, calling it a "toxic" environment in a senior reflections piece about her college career (which she subsequently edited).  Maybe Big Ten coaches feel licensed to be tough.  I found this  https://www.heraldtimesonline.com/story/sports/college/2018/03/09/aird-says-hoosiers-need-a-little-sauce/46874903/

Anyway, good luck.  There are lots of good coaches that won't cost IU nearly as much.

 

 

 

 

Welcome to the board ironborn.

Always good to see knowledgeable people from other schools stop by.

Waiting for your thoughts on Willard in the college hoops thread.

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1 hour ago, Alford Bailey said:

Now we know why volleyball was a dumpster fire

Yeah.  I don't think it will get better if Aird stays.  But teams can and do get better with the right coach.  I shouldn't have said Maryland is "stuck" in the bottom half of the Big Ten.  It just takes a little while to regroup after your top players leave and I have high hopes for the Terps.  And half the Big Ten was ranked in the Top 20, so it's an elite group.

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12 hours ago, JSHoosier said:

Some of the complaints about "kids these days" were said about previous generations as well.

Well yea…doesn’t mean they aren’t true. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say the “love childs” of the 60’s and 70s had it easier than the kids of the 40s and 50s who had it easier than the great war and Great Depression kids of the 20s and 30s who in turn had it easier than the kids on the unsettled frontiers of the late 19th C.  
 

I’m a prideful guy but in no way think growing up in the 80s and 90s was somehow harder than my forebearers. It wasn’t. Leaving more for your kids  than what you had is a double edged sword.  Overcoming adversity and hardship is definitely a useful skill. 
 

With that said I see youth today who take full advantage of their position and are way more prepared and ready than we ever were. Just some very impressive kids that take all their advantages and maximize them in a way previous generations could only dream of. So it cuts both ways. Where’s the line? I dunno. I suspect good coaches can find it. If you’re just screaming at kids and not getting results, I’m not sure how you can justify that. 

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9 hours ago, str8baller said:

Well yea…doesn’t mean they aren’t true. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say the “love childs” of the 60’s and 70s had it easier than the kids of the 40s and 50s who had it easier than the great war and Great Depression kids of the 20s and 30s who in turn had it easier than the kids on the unsettled frontiers of the late 19th C.  
 

I’m a prideful guy but in no way think growing up in the 80s and 90s was somehow harder than my forebearers. It wasn’t. Leaving more for your kids  than what you had is a double edged sword.  Overcoming adversity and hardship is definitely a useful skill. 
 

With that said I see youth today who take full advantage of their position and are way more prepared and ready than we ever were. Just some very impressive kids that take all their advantages and maximize them in a way previous generations could only dream of. So it cuts both ways. Where’s the line? I dunno. I suspect good coaches can find it. If you’re just screaming at kids and not getting results, I’m not sure how you can justify that. 

As a teacher of 30 years, I wouldn’t necessarily say that kids ‘have it easier’ now.  I would be more inclined to say that the pressure they receive tends to be coming from a different spot.  Areas that I received pressure from as a kid they aren’t receiving, but there are areas they are under pressure from that I never was.

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On 5/11/2022 at 9:07 AM, JSHoosier said:

Some of the complaints about "kids these days" were said about previous generations as well.

Sort of like....Things aren't what they used to be, and they never were.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/11/2022 at 10:07 PM, str8baller said:

 Where’s the line? I dunno. I suspect good coaches can find it. If you’re just screaming at kids and not getting results, I’m not sure how you can justify that.  

Maybe yelling at players is okay if you're not abusive and you're supportive in every other way.  Coaches need to understand how to work with 18 to 22-year-olds.  Russ Rose seemed to know how to push players hard without making them all go into therapy (as far as I know).  Here's a short 2021 video about him pushing players: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYMHSGQE3pI  .  Aird and Maryland's Hughes say a few interesting words (both worked for Rose).

If I were Indiana though, I'd seek a new coach who focuses on players' love of volleyball and emotional needs at this point.  He or she might not attract top player talent right away, but it could change the culture.  I think Hughes at UMD has fostered a much more supportive environment.  Players feel more valued and honestly I think they're happier.  The result is UMD has only lost 4 or 5 players in four years (aside from graduation), and this year their seniors are even coming back as grad students, including their All-Big-Ten middle blocker.  Recruiting and retention follow naturally when students enjoy playing, and Maryland recruiting is doing well now.

Edited by ironborn

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I'll call BS on past generations handling stresses any better. People just ignored it and refused to talk about it in the past. I've known multiple people ranging in age from 40s to 80s that have talked about how they were dealing with depression for DECADES,


I haven't suffered depression for decades(only about 15 years or so), but I believe you are correct. I haven't been comfortable talking about it until about 6 months ago. I'm 57.


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Dolson's response:

Mark,

 

Thank you for your email regarding our volleyball program. I want to assure you that I take matters like these extremely seriously, as the mental and physical well-being of our student-athletes is our No. 1 priority. I appreciate the opportunity to provide you with a little more detail and context.

 

When several individuals shared similar concerns with our staff during end-of-the-season exit interviews, we immediately decided to involve the Indiana University Vice President and General Counsel’s office to do an independent review and report. Contrary to the IDS article, that review was thorough and included the relevant parties, including those who had expressed concerns and were willing to participate in the review. Upon completion of the report, our department implemented all of its recommendations.

 

Following the completion of that report, I personally met with the members of our volleyball program, independent from the coaching staff, and reiterated our commitment to their physical and mental well-being, and to let them know that they can reach out to me personally with any concerns. Deputy Director of Athletics Mattie White and I also reminded them about additional avenues to report concerns to IU Athletics staff members, campus officials, and anonymously.

 

I provide these details to you not to, in any way, minimize the seriousness of some of the items that you read in the Indiana Daily Student article. I instead share them with you so that you know that we took this situation seriously enough to immediately involve the General Counsel’s office to ensure that we could have an independent entity examine the claims and offer their recommendations on the appropriate course of action based on its independent and unbiased review.

 

If I can answer anything else, please do not hesitate to ask.

 

Scott

 

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I appreciate very much Scott Dolson's thorough reply and mamasa's posting it here.
It's hard to find fault with Scott given his willingness to publicly defend the Athletic Department's actions and the reasoning behind them.
I will be very anxious to see how the volleyball team performs and how many more girls enter the transfer portal.
And, how many girls will be willing to come to IU in the future to play volleyball for the current coach.
One thing is certain.  This coach is on a VERY short leash, as I think he should be.

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