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1 minute ago, RaceToTheTop said:

I'm trying to think of an example of a current highly successful college basketball coach who is just an *** to his players all the time and I'm not coming up with any kind of list.  And the truth is that Knight's success basically boiled down to his ability X and O people to death much more than his form of 'discipline'.

And to the extent that Knight's "discipline" was effective, it was more about having players that responded well to it - this is not praise of the players for which it was effective nor criticism of players for which it wasn't. Furthermore, the onus would be on Knight (or any other coach) to recognize the players that didn't respond well, and stop, otherwise its just abuse.

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26 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

I'm trying to think of an example of a current highly successful college basketball coach who is just an *** to his players all the time and I'm not coming up with any kind of list.  And the truth is that Knight's success basically boiled down to his ability X and O people to death much more than his form of 'discipline'.

Absolutely, many coaches including Aird have gone way over the line and I said that. We also need to realize though that coaching kids in this day and age is incredibly tough and it's something many current coaches are struggling with. You lob one criticism at certain kids and they want out of the program and their mental mental health can suffer.

Both are true and not mutually exclusive. Some coaches like Aird are very abusive and should be nowhere near college kids, but also some coaches struggle coaching correctly without players getting offended by the smallest things.   

People who don't want to look at coaches like Aird and realize they are abusive are feeding the problem. By the same token, people who don't want to look at some players and realize any advice or tough love they get from a coach makes them suffer mentally are also feeding the problem.

There is a middle ground and as a society we are struggling to find it in many aspects including coaching. 

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I am also going to ask another controversial question of whether men should be coaching women?

While you should always hire the best candidate, unless women are going to start coaching men, maybe some of this would stop if we required women to coach women and men to coach men.

It seems the worst issues of abuse (although it happens with both genders for sure) in this day and age are always the sports where men coach women. A lot of men who go into coaching to coach women do it because they are abusive and controlling individuals as a whole who want to control females. 

Certainly women can coach women and be very abusive and we have seen it, but having men coach women opens up a whole different set of issues and dangers women can face that are not a problem when other women coach them.

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Just now, TheWatShot said:

Maybe not the thread for it, but not a good look for Fred Glass to have this come up after what happened with Kevin Wilson. 

Good point. Although with Wilson it sounds like it was more the way he treated injured players and injuries in general not the team as a whole. It sounds like Wilson treated players fine otherwise.

With Aird it sounds like he is an abuser as a whole which is much worse, especially doing it to women.

It certainly is not a good look for Glass in regards to his judgement and both issues are related, but there are some differences. 

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8 minutes ago, Aaron said:

Good point. Although with Wilson it sounds like it was more the way he treated injured players and injuries in general not the team as a whole. It sounds like Wilson treated players fine otherwise.

With Aird it sounds like he is an abuser as a whole which is much worse, especially doing it to women.

It certainly is not a good look for Glass in regards to his judgement and both issues are related, but there are some differences. 

Wilson was a complete and utter ****** to everyone. He threatened RA's, threatened the campus police, bullied students, cajoled a QB into taking a swing at him.... I could go on for days about the abuse that Wilson doled, and threatened to.  Complete waste of skin

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2 minutes ago, mamasa said:

Wilson was a complete and utter ****** to everyone. He threatened RA's, threatened the campus police, bullied students, cajoled a QB into taking a swing at him.... I could go on for days about the abuse that Wilson doled, and threatened to.  Complete waste of skin

Yup aware of how he treated others around him and staff which was very badly. I never heard players complain about him though outside of injuries. 

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5 minutes ago, Aaron said:

Yup aware of how he treated others around him and staff which was very badly. I never heard players complain about him though outside of injuries. 

Guess we've talked to different sets of players then

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10 minutes ago, mamasa said:

Or, we just stop accepting abuse in general? Only allowing men to coach men and women to coach women is such a step back into the accepted gender (which is a social concept) roles, instead of not stigmatizing those abused. The whole "this generation is entitled and fragile" is BS- they're just not accepting of being abused. No reason at all that women shouldn't coach men and vice versa. Listen to the players and make it crystal clear that there is no abuse, whether it's mental, physical or emotional, acceptable. Victim shaming is such a powerful tool that's used by the good ol' boys that have run the show forever. 

I don't disagree. Just raising these questions people need to think about with all of this. Abuse is abuse and needs to be stopped and Aird has very much done that, but there are definitely times where sensitive kids can't take coaching and if you won't acknowledge that then I don't know what to say.

As I said people like Aird and people enabling Aird who are abusive need to be dealt with in the harshest possible way and anyone who looks the other way is part of the problem. By the same token people who refuse to acknowledge we have created a society with some mentally fragile kids who can't take tough coaching are also part of the problem and the reason society is in the state it is in.

All is true and I have no patience for people like Aird and from the beginning he always struck me oddly despite so many people saying how wonderful he was.

There are multiple issues here and discussions to be had with people like Aird being the biggest one.  

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15 minutes ago, mamasa said:

Wilson was a complete and utter ****** to everyone. He threatened RA's, threatened the campus police, bullied students, cajoled a QB into taking a swing at him.... I could go on for days about the abuse that Wilson doled, and threatened to.  Complete waste of skin

He abused more than just people too, which likely goes hand in hand. Just an absolute stinker of a person. Good coach, bad person. 

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54 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

Kevin Wilson’s liver is not a Kevin Wilson fan. 
 

I’m guessing Big Red Liquors fought tooth and nail with Fred to keep him in town though. 

Big Red Store meeting:

"Profits are way down!"

"Inflation?"

"Wilson. The Columbus, Ohio store is crushing it though."

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On 5/9/2022 at 10:24 AM, IU_FanClub said:

http://specials.idsnews.com/indiana-volleyball-steve-aird-culture-fear/

 

Just completely disgusting behavior he has no place in our Athletic Department

It's genuinely disheartening and hard to hear that, in this day and age, IU has a coach doing this complete and total BS to any athletes / students, let alone women. What a complete and total piece of S this guy is. I've seen it first-hand in academy level soccer when my oldest was playing, but to see it at IU is just sickening. Good grief, kick this piece of S to the curb.

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If this were men's basketball and all things the same but Woody had just won a championship would you all still have the same feelings about this? I assume the answer would be no because the story wouldn't even get written. Do I think this dude is most likely a complete turd? Yeah but I'm also not sure I'd call what he was doing abusive. Tattoo allegation aside I think he was trying to "toughen" them up. Now clearly it didn't work and there are no results to show for it so now he's an abusive piece of **** that needs fired. What if they had gotten the results? Would anyone have said anything or would they have bought in to what he was trying to do? Clearly I'm in the minority here but I too think the entitled/guarded young adults today just aren't as mentally tough as the generations before them due to never having to be mentally tough.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

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2 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I absolutely hate the argument that today’s young adults are “entitled” or “mentally weak.” We’re not. We want to be treated like human beings. Maybe 50 years ago it was socially acceptable to scream at your players nonstop, slap them around, be an miserable a**hole to them all the time, etc. That doesn’t mean that behavior is ok. I’m sorry that young people back then had to endure that kind of abuse. 

It’s not even an effective coaching style. I’m played/worked for both ***holes and great leaders. 100% the great leaders get more out of people. No one is at their best when they’re miserable. In your example, sure, the championship winning coach of your school’s best program would get more leeway. But chances are you’re not winning any championships coaching like this volleyball clown because no one will want to play for you. 

Also, in the past the coaches had the advantage of being in control of the athletes' ability to transfer. To transfer, the athletes had to get a release from the school (i.e. the coach). Even then the schools could restrict to which schools the athletes could transfer if they wanted to be able to receive a scholarship so it could be a conditional release, in other words. Then the athletes would have to sit out a year. That was probably incentive enough for many athletes to try to tough it out for another year in a toxic program. 

The power has now shifted where the coaches no longer have that type of control. That's a good thing. Toxic coaches won't be able to hold on to athletes as easily.

As good of a coach as Knight was, he probably wouldn't have nearly the same success that he had if the transfer rules were what they are today. Even with what they were he did have his share of transfers, especially later in his time at IU.

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35 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I absolutely hate the argument that today’s young adults are “entitled” or “mentally weak.” We’re not. We want to be treated like human beings. Maybe 50 years ago it was socially acceptable to scream at your players nonstop, slap them around, be an miserable a**hole to them all the time, etc. That doesn’t mean that behavior is ok. I’m sorry that young people back then had to endure that kind of abuse. 

It’s not even an effective coaching style. I’m played/worked for both ***holes and great leaders. 100% the great leaders get more out of people. No one is at their best when they’re miserable. In your example, sure, the championship winning coach of your school’s best program would get more leeway. But chances are you’re not winning any championships coaching like this volleyball clown because no one will want to play for you. 

Exactly.  Knowing this crap isn't acceptable and that they shouldn't have to put up with this kind of abuse doesn't make them "mentally weak".

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