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45 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

At least, we have some one dimensional players that do that one thing well. P Stew - shooting, Race - garbage man (meant in the best way possible), Phin - defender, etc. On an elite team, those are all role or rotational pieces.

Something I hope we have with Woody is that we become a development program. Race could be an All-America type player with a 3PT% of 36+. Trayce would be a double-double machine and unstoppable with a decent jumper, right hand, and a high motor.

I'm really watching for the development of Geronimo and Bates over the next few years. They could be All-Big 1.o first teamers with development, they have the physical attributes.

We have one dominant player.

The only two players who do many things well are Race and Galloway. Neither is great at anything, but at least they are multi-faceted.

The rest are one dimensional, except for Geronimo and Bates.

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1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

If that point guard could do a lot of other things outside of being a point guard I would agree. It also depends on the level of success we're talking. A top notch point guard would move us into a surefire tourney team and upper-middle Big 1.o finish. However, I believe we're still missing the following: (in order of need)

A point guard, as you mentioned

An all around wing that can get to the rim, shoot at a high level, create for himself and for others, and be a lockdown defender. (Think something like Oladipo, think Bates will eventually be this)

A stretch 4, big wing, that can shoot at a high level, post up on smaller wings, and switch to defend smaller wings and possibly opposing point guards. (think athletic Watford, think Geronimo can develop here)

A long backup big that could spell TJD for 10 minutes a game. He runs the floor and defends the rim. (not on roster)

We absolutely have pieces and role players but we're far from being anything more than middle of the pack in the Big 1.o. The pieces we have outside of TJD have exploitable weaknesses in their game that most good coaches will attack if they have the pieces. We saw in the Minny game where they didn't have the players and chose to go all in defending the post, hoping we were cold from outside. We'll need to hit big in the transfer portal and/or hope Bates/Geronimo develop a lot in the off-season.

I know it's not popular because we'd like to think we're much closer but we have a ways to go. I would love to be wrong and watch IU contend for a Big 1.o championship, high seed, and deep tourney run next season.

 

So, you're expecting all of this in year one?

Don't disagree with your take, however, history has shown us, that a legit pg, can take you places. No leadership at this position, whatsoever. People saying X is an upgrade, to what we've recently had, is not a great endorsement. 

Consistency, effort, and improvement throughout the season, is all I'm hoping to see this year. Both on the bench, and on the court.

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25 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

Stats do lie when you position them in the way you do!

You cannot compare the whole season’s stats from last year vs the cupcake start to the year we’ve played thus far but yet you are and coming to the conclusion that “so far we're clearly improved -- so yeah, to me those are pretty obvious reasons to see we're getting better.

you cherry picked stats that are incomparable and came to a false conclusion based on those. 

If you take our conference offensive stats this year compared to last year, it’s marginal improvement at best. First is this year, second is last year. Of course, we’re comparing a full conference schedule to only 6 games, but it’s a better comparison than the previous comparison. At least this one is limited to our stats against Big 10 opponents. It kind of lines up with the eye test - our offense doesn’t look that different from last year. FWIW, we were 3-3 through the first 6 conference games last year too. 

Points:  66.5 / 69.4
FG%: 42.9% / 42.6%
2PT%: 48.7% / 47.4%
3PT%: 31%  / 32.9% 
FT%: 68.8% / 67.6% 
Assists:  14.2  / 13.3
TOV: 11.3  / 11.6

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21 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Is this comparing IU last year at this point in the season to IU this year to date? Or last year as a whole compared to where we’re at now this season? Because if it’s the latter, that’s a pretty disingenuous comparison. Our non conference this year was a joke and we’ve only played 6 games in the Big Ten. Last year we played 7 non conference games. 20 of 27 games were conference games. We played 2 cupcakes all year. The rest of the non conference was Texas, Stanford, Providence, Florida State, and Butler. You absolutely cannot say “we’re better in basically every offensive category” when we’ve just begun playing legitimate basketball teams this year.

Yes, he was comparing a schedule where we played 10 ranked teams to a schedule where we have played 1 ranked team, showing that in a few categories our numbers are better this year and therefore there is obvious improvement…

 

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5 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

Yes, he was comparing a schedule where we played 10 ranked teams to a schedule where we have played 1 ranked team, showing that in a few categories our numbers are better this year and therefore there is obvious improvement…

 

And honestly our schedule is why I don’t the team at this point in the season. We’ve just barely played anyone thus far. 7 of our 16 games have been against cupcakes. We’re 5-4 against non cupcakes. Last year, 25 of our 27 games were against Big 10, ACC, Big 12, PAC-12, or Big East teams. This team is probably better than last year’s team because of the defensive improvements, but how much better? Idk.

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2 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

And honestly our schedule is why I don’t the team at this point in the season. We’ve just barely played anyone thus far. 7 of our 16 games have been against cupcakes. We’re 5-4 against non cupcakes. Last year, 25 of our 27 games were against Big 10, ACC, Big 12, PAC-12, or Big East teams. This team is probably better than last year’s team because of the defensive improvements, but how much better? Idk.

Yeah,  maybe even better “serious question” to ask

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10 minutes ago, jk34 said:

So, you're expecting all of this in year one?

Don't disagree with your take, however, history has shown us, that a legit pg, can take you places. No leadership at this position, whatsoever. People saying X is an upgrade, to what we've recently had, is not a great endorsement. 

Consistency, effort, and improvement throughout the season, is all I'm hoping to see this year. Both on the bench, and on the court.

Not sure where I stated I was expecting all of this in year one.

I'm hoping we get this after a few years. I'm not expecting it at all because... recent history.

Right, there were other pieces when that pg took us places. We're in need of those pieces to either develop or be recruited. X has the tools but hasn't been molded. X might be the only one that could lead this group but wasn't or hasn't been developed into that role. Give me his attitude and effort, much easier to reel him in than to get others pumped.

Be careful with the 'e' word.

I pointed out flaws early in the season. My expectations for this season was improving on those and getting them corrected. This would have me feeling much better about the future.

We had a few games where we improved with TOs until we **** all over the court when Iowa "pressured" us. Our FT shooting is still poor. We still go through long stretches where our spacing is turrble. We're inconsistent from game to game from deep, we need to get better shots and hit at a more consistent higher clip. We have a ton of room for improvement on consistent smart effort.

The wins will eventually come when you have the culture foundation set. I haven't seen us build that this season with an older group.

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1 minute ago, MikeRoberts said:

Yeah,  maybe even better “serious question” to ask

Last years team was a tourney team going  into the Sparty 10-9(4-9) home game  IU was 12-9(7-7) on Feb 20.   IU proceeded to lose out from that point and Sparty made a run and made the first 4  but last years team wasn’t far off the tourney.   Besides the defensive improvement there probably isn’t much difference in this years team then last years.  Both are teams that should be tourney teams just got to wait and see if they decide not to follow in last years collapse.   When IU misses the tourney they do it in dramatic fashion.   Last 3 years 

1. Lost 12 of 13 but still was one of the first 4 teams out 

2. cancelled.   Would of made it but got cancelled 

3.  lost the last 6 games to fall completely out of the picture 

This years team still is in good shape to do what those 3 teams couldn’t do and that’s to finish the job 

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51 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Last years team was a tourney team going  into the Sparty 10-9(4-9) home game  IU was 12-9(7-7) on Feb 20.   IU proceeded to lose out from that point and Sparty made a run and made the first 4  but last years team wasn’t far off the tourney.   Besides the defensive improvement there probably isn’t much difference in this years team then last years.  Both are teams that should be tourney teams just got to wait and see if they decide not to follow in last years collapse.   When IU misses the tourney they do it in dramatic fashion.   Last 3 years 

1. Lost 12 of 13 but still was one of the first 4 teams out 

2. cancelled.   Would of made it but got cancelled 

3.  lost the last 6 games to fall completely out of the picture 

This years team still is in good shape to do what those 3 teams couldn’t do and that’s to finish the job 

All true. I guess that is what is concerning many of us - that we really aren’t much better or worse thus far than previous crappy years under Archie. Those similar teams folded under pressure and what we’ve seen thus far from this team is that they fold under pressure. Lots of basketball left to play but feel like we’ve seen this movie a few times 

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All true. I guess that is what is concerning many of us - that we really aren’t much better or worse thus far than previous crappy years under Archie. Those similar teams folded under pressure and what we’ve seen thus far from this team is that they fold under pressure. Lots of basketball left to play but feel like we’ve seen this movies a few times 
Not sure that's completely fair. They've shown they can persevere under pressure at times this season as well. But that's the main issue is just inconsistency. They are inconsistent from game to game and half to half. It's bizarre really how inconsistent they really are. I put a lot of blame on the 2nd half collapses on Woodson for not making the right adjustments. No I don't know what the right one's would have been and that's why he's paid to coach and I'm not.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

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2 minutes ago, Alford Bailey said:

Maybe it’s because of a weaker schedule but I feel this team could have won every game so far this season. Last years team had a lot of quit in them.

As USPS posted, I think that “quit” is mostly recency thinking. We weren’t great, but we weren’t terrible at this point last year either. The quit really showed up bigtime in the back half of the schedule when we started playing tough games every night. 
that part of the schedule that has killed us the past several years is here and we are still doing a lot of the same questionable things that we saw in years past

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2 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

All true. I guess that is what is concerning many of us - that we really aren’t much better or worse thus far than previous crappy years under Archie. Those similar teams folded under pressure and what we’ve seen thus far from this team is that they fold under pressure. Lots of basketball left to play but feel like we’ve seen this movies a few times 

Building a winning culture is going to have small victories with little change each time more often then switching a coach and everything starts rolling in my opinion.  Bad habits are hard to break and asking a first year coach to fix upperclassman’s bad habits that they have shown their whole college basketball career is a hard ask for a new coach.  Bringing in new pieces that had obvious bad habits before and from programs that had leas winning cultures then IU has had was always a risk. 
Changing a losing culture and losing mentality is harder then it looks in my opinion.   Doing it year 1 with a new staff and new players is even harder.   Don’t know how the rest of the year turns out but IU has a chance to change the narrative this year compared to the last couple 

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1 hour ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Is this comparing IU last year at this point in the season to IU this year to date? Or last year as a whole compared to where we’re at now this season? Because if it’s the latter, that’s a pretty disingenuous comparison. Our non conference this year was a joke and we’ve only played 6 games in the Big Ten. Last year we played 7 non conference games. 20 of 27 games were conference games. We played 2 cupcakes all year. The rest of the non conference was Texas, Stanford, Providence, Florida State, and Butler. You absolutely cannot say “we’re better in basically every offensive category” when we’ve just begun playing legitimate basketball teams this year.

It's like you choose to read one thing and ignore the other. Again, go ahead and review apples to apples and tell me we're not obviously better. You can't, and you just flat out ignored what I posted. Good grief you guys bend over backwards trying to find reasons to complain, it's gets so old. Do  you honestly, truly believe we're not playing miles better D, and on the offensive side of the ball shooting better? If you do, you are living in la la land of negativity. It's not worth discussing.

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1 hour ago, MikeRoberts said:

Yes, he was comparing a schedule where we played 10 ranked teams to a schedule where we have played 1 ranked team, showing that in a few categories our numbers are better this year and therefore there is obvious improvement…

 

Lol, pull up some stats that show we're worse. Go ahead. You can't.  What's the point of discussing? What do you want to prove?

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7 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Lol, pull up some stats that show we're worse. Go ahead. You can't.  What's the point of discussing? What do you want to prove?

Give me the option of last years team or this years team I take this years group 10/10.

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9 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

It's like you choose to read one thing and ignore the other. Again, go ahead and review apples to apples and tell me we're not obviously better. You can't, and you just flat out ignored what I posted. Good grief you guys bend over backwards trying to find reasons to complain, it's gets so old. Do  you honestly, truly believe we're not playing miles better D, and on the offensive side of the ball shooting better? If you do, you are living in la la land of negativity. It's not worth discussing.

We’re definitely better than last year on defense.

On the other hand, we’re better than last year on offense.

;)

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1 hour ago, MikeRoberts said:

All true. I guess that is what is concerning many of us - that we really aren’t much better or worse thus far than previous crappy years under Archie. Those similar teams folded under pressure and what we’ve seen thus far from this team is that they fold under pressure. Lots of basketball left to play but feel like we’ve seen this movie a few times 

The key thing here is this team still has most of those players and it maybe that things won’t overly improve until CMW can have a chance to coach players for more than 16 games.  I say let’s give him and his staff a chance!

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36 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

It's like you choose to read one thing and ignore the other. Again, go ahead and review apples to apples and tell me we're not obviously better. You can't, and you just flat out ignored what I posted. Good grief you guys bend over backwards trying to find reasons to complain, it's gets so old. Do  you honestly, truly believe we're not playing miles better D, and on the offensive side of the ball shooting better? If you do, you are living in la la land of negativity. It's not worth discussing.

 A very reasonable and not at all emotional response. You tried passing off statistics that were heavily influenced by our horrible non conference schedule as proof of how much the offense has improved and then got mad when people pointed out that it was a disingenuous comparison. Our non conference schedule was a joke. Scoring 90 points against a Marshall team that’s 7-10 or 85 points against a 5-8 Northern Illinois team is absolutely meaningless. It’d be like IUFB going crazy about scoring 56 points against Idaho.

Here’s some apples to apples. This year’s conference numbers compared to last year’s conference numbers. Virtually identical. If you want to beat your chest over that then go for it. It’s not a “la la land of negativity.” It’s reality. 

Points:  66.5 / 69.4
FG%: 42.9% / 42.6%
2PT%: 48.7% / 47.4%
3PT%: 31%  / 32.9% 
FT%: 68.8% / 67.6% 
Assists:  14.2  / 13.3
TOV: 11.3  / 11.6

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