Serious Question

[MikeRoberts 6,832]

17 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Why not include rankings next to the teams from last year? Not arguing your point, yet, just curious if there was a justification for leaving them out.

I’m not going to split hairs over that with him. Yes, at this point last year we had played two ranked teams, #18 and #8 vs this year we’ve played 1 ranked team, #13.

yes, last years 6 games were likely tougher than this year but close enough for me. 

[Hoosierfan2017 19,886]

22 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

No, I posted the exact numbers. I went through and added all FG's and all 3PT's taken in each of the first 6 games, from the box scores. It's easy.

And just looking at the record, while ignoring that we lost at home NWU last year in the first 6, that we lost by more, that we won by less, through the first 6 in 2020 v 2021 is not an apples to apples comparison, and you asked for an apples to apples comparison, so I posted it for you.

I agree we have the rest of the season, and we won't know until we get there, but so far this team is better, hands down -- except, my concern, on the number of 3's being taken, that's my continuing concern, fwiw.

Then your might want to add them again because your calculations are wrong. If you dont believe that source, here it is from a different one. Like you said yesterday, stats don’t lie. https://bigten.org/documents/2021/12/9/2122_MBB_Conf_Stats.pdf

 

I suppose when you’re looking at incorrect numbers our offense doesn’t look so bad, but they’re shooting 31% from 3 in the conference. So, if we use the first six games from the past two seasons like you wanted to, we’re shooting worse from the field, worse from 3, and scoring 6 fewer points per game this year. The improvement this season isn’t because of the offense. The offense isn’t any different from last year. We struggle to score, we struggle to shoot, and we rely heavily on Trayce. The difference between this team and last year’s team is the defense. This whole conversation started because you posted about how our offensive stats “at this point are clearly better.” Scoring a bunch of points against Northern Illinois or Marshall doesn’t mean the offense is better. We scored 89 points against Tennessee Tech and 87 points against North Alabama last year. Were we an offensive juggernaut? Of course not. We just had more games against teams like that this year than we did last year. 

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

And on this we agree. Lol -- except I don't think this season will end sh___y. I think we'll  make the tourney (FINALLY). Here's to hoping.

I don’t think this season is shitty. I meant that from last season. Last season was unquestionable shitty.


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[HoosierAloha 29,887]

I’m not going to split hairs over that with him. Yes, at this point last year we had played two ranked teams, #18 and #8 vs this year we’ve played 1 ranked team, #13.
yes, last years 6 games were likely tougher than this year but close enough for me. 

Didn’t we have a win or two coming up against a much better Iowa team last season too?


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[MikeRoberts 6,832]

3 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Didn’t we have a win or two coming up against a much better Iowa team last season too?


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Yes but not at this point in the season.

our first 6 conference games were against 2 ranked teams, this year our first 6 conference games were against 1 ranked team.

again, I think we had a much more difficult schedule all around last year, very little fluff unlike this year that has been super fluffy.

net net is that our record is inflated, our offense is pretty bad and we don’t really know if our defense is really that good because we haven’t played anyone. We played against 1 really good offensive team and they beat the breaks off of us.

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

30 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

Yes but not at this point in the season.

our first 6 conference games were against 2 ranked teams, this year our first 6 conference games were against 1 ranked team.

again, I think we had a much more difficult schedule all around last year, very little fluff unlike this year that has been super fluffy.

net net is that our record is inflated, our offense is pretty bad and we don’t really know if our defense is really that good because we haven’t played anyone. We played against 1 really good offensive team and they beat the breaks off of us.

I wouldn't say they beat the breaks off of us. We were able to get their best player, one of the top in the conference, in foul trouble and only lost by 9, on the road. I do agree we had a ton of fluff in the noncon, the numbers would agree with this. I wonder how the overall Big 1.o this year compares to last year too.

[Uspshoosier 44,198]

7 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

I wouldn't say they beat the breaks off of us. We were able to get their best player, one of the top in the conference, in foul trouble and only lost by 9, on the road. I do agree we had a ton of fluff in the noncon, the numbers would agree with this. I wonder how the overall Big 1.o this year compares to last year too.

9 teams made the tourney last year.  Top heavy with 2 teams that earned 1 seeds and 2 teams that earned  2 seeds.   Michigan only team that made it to the sweet 16.  Last year only 5 teams finished above .500 in conference 

[TheWatShot 13,335]

46 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

We played against 1 really good offensive team and they beat the breaks off of us.

Our adjusted D ranking didn't change after this game, meaning Iowa scored about what they were projected to score. 

 

Also, OSU is 16th in adjusted O and we held them to 51 points. 

[MikeRoberts 6,832]

42 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

Our adjusted D ranking didn't change after this game, meaning Iowa scored about what they were projected to score. 

 

Also, OSU is 16th in adjusted O and we held them to 51 points. 

Fair point on OSU, didn’t realize they were so good offensively. Iowa seemingly scored at will in the second half, we had no answer

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

19 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

Our adjusted D ranking didn't change after this game, meaning Iowa scored about what they were projected to score. 

 

Also, OSU is 16th in adjusted O and we held them to 51 points. 

I'd like to see O$U numbers after returning from their COVID pause. They don't look like the same team.

[HoosierHoopster 6,023]

3 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Then your might want to add them again because your calculations are wrong. If you dont believe that source, here it is from a different one. Like you said yesterday, stats don’t lie. https://bigten.org/documents/2021/12/9/2122_MBB_Conf_Stats.pdf

 

I suppose when you’re looking at incorrect numbers our offense doesn’t look so bad, but they’re shooting 31% from 3 in the conference. So, if we use the first six games from the past two seasons like you wanted to, we’re shooting worse from the field, worse from 3, and scoring 6 fewer points per game this year. The improvement this season isn’t because of the offense. The offense isn’t any different from last year. We struggle to score, we struggle to shoot, and we rely heavily on Trayce. The difference between this team and last year’s team is the defense. This whole conversation started because you posted about how our offensive stats “at this point are clearly better.” Scoring a bunch of points against Northern Illinois or Marshall doesn’t mean the offense is better. We scored 89 points against Tennessee Tech and 87 points against North Alabama last year. Were we an offensive juggernaut? Of course not. We just had more games against teams like that this year than we did last year. 

Oh good grief just take the time to actually look at the boxes - i did. You’re working hard for your negative take. You’re off here but ok

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

11 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Oh good grief just take the time to actually look at the boxes - i did. You’re working hard for your negative take. You’re off here but ok

Which site did you use for the boxes?

Edit: ESPN, Google, & IU site box score all show 35-113. Did you accidentally count an opponents numbers?

[Hoosierfan2017 19,886]

17 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Oh good grief just take the time to actually look at the boxes - i did. You’re working hard for your negative take. You’re off here but ok

I appreciate your confidence here but you’re still wrong. Yet you’re tripling down lol. This isn’t something where two people can have differing opinions. Why don’t you just admit that you made a mathematical error so we can move on instead of whatever this is? 

Nebraska: 8-22

Wisconsin: 5-13

Penn State: 4-17

Ohio State: 2-15

Minnesota: 9-24

Iowa: 7-22 

Total: 35-113 = 30.97%, rounded up to 31%.   

It’s on the official Big 10 website. It’s on sports reference. It’s on ESPN. Hell, those are the numbers on the IU athletics website. Why are you digging in here? It’s especially bizarre because in your very first post on this topic you cited sports reference for your stats. So, you saw the stats on the website and used them for your argument that the offense is “clearly better.” Yet now you’re claiming the website is wrong…

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

4 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I appreciate your confidence here but you’re still wrong. Yet you’re tripling down lol. This isn’t something where two people can have differing opinions. Why don’t you just admit that you made a mathematical error so we can move on instead of whatever this is? 

Nebraska: 8-22

Wisconsin: 5-13

Penn State: 4-17

Ohio State: 2-15

Minnesota: 9-24

Iowa: 7-22 

Total: 35-113 = 30.97%, rounded up to 31%.   

It’s on the official Big 10 website. It’s on sports reference. It’s on ESPN. Hell, those are the numbers on the IU athletics website. Why are you digging in here? It’s especially bizarre because in your very first post on this topic you cited sports reference for your stats. So, you saw the stats on the website and used them for your argument that the offense is “clearly better.” Yet now you’re claiming the website is wrong…

If it's on the internet two people can have differing opinions

[HoosierHoopster 6,023]

4 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I appreciate your confidence here but you’re still wrong. Yet you’re tripling down lol. This isn’t something where two people can have differing opinions. Why don’t you just admit that you made a mathematical error so we can move on instead of whatever this is? 

Nebraska: 8-22

Wisconsin: 5-13

Penn State: 4-17

Ohio State: 2-15

Minnesota: 9-24

Iowa: 7-22 

Total: 35-113 = 30.97%, rounded up to 31%.   

It’s on the official Big 10 website. It’s on sports reference. It’s on ESPN. Hell, those are the numbers on the IU athletics website. Why are you digging in here? It’s especially bizarre because in your very first post on this topic you cited sports reference for your stats. So, you saw the stats on the website and used them for your argument that the offense is “clearly better.” Yet now you’re claiming the website is wrong…

Nope you're right on shooting percentages, I re-checked and I added wrong on the PSU game. So correct, our 3-p percentage for the 1st 6 games of conf isn't what I thought it was  -- (not great, but I'm still more concerned about our having taken less shots in 21).

But while we're on the subject of digging in and admitting things, do you acknowledge that:

- in 2020 we lost by significantly more points through the first 6, each by at least 7 points (compared to 2021, by 3, 5 and 9, leaving aside the huge lead we had @Wisc). and of course we're undefeated at home - you think this team loses to NW at home?

- in 2021 we've won by significantly more points through the 1st 6 -- 36 in 2021 to 18 in 2020. Right? We barely won by 2 against PSU at home in OT, and lost to NW in 2020. That's pretty clearly different to me.

What is wrong with any of the below, and how do they not reflect a better team, so far, 6 games into conf?

Who and by what margin did we lose to through the first 6 games?

2020 Losses: 74-67 (by 7) to that powerhouse, Northwestern; At Ill (69-60); At Wisconsin 80-73.

2021: Losses: At Wisc 64-59 (and we were up big); At PSU 61-58; At Iowa 83-74.

So, we lost at home to NWU in 2020, and each of the 3 losses were by at least 7. 2021: the losses were by 3, 5 and 9.

Yeah, that's obviously better. We're undefeated at home. We've lost by less and were in every game except 2nd half Iowa. We should've won the @Wisc game, and were right in the @PSU game.

What about comparing the W's through the 1st 6 Con games?

2020 Wins: 87-85 over PSU in OT, 63-55 MD,. 84-76 At Neb.

2021 Wins: 68-55 Neb, 67-51 #13 OSU, 73-60 Minn.

So, clearly better home W's as well, through the 1st 6 games. The @Neb game should factor in here, tomorrow. I think the team will step up and get the W, we'll see.

No, I'm not "mad," but I do get kinda tired of the repeated negative posts that simply ignore the several points that reflect a stronger team. It gets old. End of the day I think we all want our team to win and win well.

[HoosierHoopster 6,023]

4 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

Which site did you use for the boxes?

Edit: ESPN, Google, & IU site box score all show 35-113. Did you accidentally count an opponents numbers?

got messed up in psu game somehow looked at FT's lol. It's all good, the silly cartoon cutdowns aside.

[IUFAN1976 2,233]

6 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Nope you're right on shooting percentages, I re-checked and I added wrong on the PSU game. So correct, our 3-p percentage for the 1st 6 games of conf isn't what I thought it was  -- (not great, but I'm still more concerned about our having taken less shots in 21).

But while we're on the subject of digging in and admitting things, do you acknowledge that:

- in 2020 we lost by significantly more points through the first 6, each by at least 7 points (compared to 2021, by 3, 5 and 9, leaving aside the huge lead we had @Wisc). and of course we're undefeated at home - you think this team loses to NW at home?

- in 2021 we've won by significantly more points through the 1st 6 -- 36 in 2021 to 18 in 2020. Right? We barely won by 2 against PSU at home in OT, and lost to NW in 2020. That's pretty clearly different to me.

What is wrong with any of the below, and how do they not reflect a better team, so far, 6 games into conf?

Who and by what margin did we lose to through the first 6 games?

2020 Losses: 74-67 (by 7) to that powerhouse, Northwestern; At Ill (69-60); At Wisconsin 80-73.

2021: Losses: At Wisc 64-59 (and we were up big); At PSU 61-58; At Iowa 83-74.

So, we lost at home to NWU in 2020, and each of the 3 losses were by at least 7. 2021: the losses were by 3, 5 and 9.

Yeah, that's obviously better. We're undefeated at home. We've lost by less and were in every game except 2nd half Iowa. We should've won the @Wisc game, and were right in the @PSU game.

What about comparing the W's through the 1st 6 Con games?

2020 Wins: 87-85 over PSU in OT, 63-55 MD,. 84-76 At Neb.

2021 Wins: 68-55 Neb, 67-51 #13 OSU, 73-60 Minn.

So, clearly better home W's as well, through the 1st 6 games. The @Neb game should factor in here, tomorrow. I think the team will step up and get the W, we'll see.

No, I'm not "mad," but I do get kinda tired of the repeated negative posts that simply ignore the several points that reflect a stronger team. It gets old. End of the day I think we all want our team to win and win well.

Just pointing this out, don’t you mean 2021 for last year and 2022 for this year?  I am assuming you are comparing this years team to last years team.

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

6 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

got messed up in psu game somehow looked at FT's lol. It's all good, the silly cartoon cutdowns aside.

Nothing against you but... (we humans are more often incorrect than those computers) typically when a professional site puts up numbers they're correct unless the official box score is incorrect. I'm actually trying to figure out how the sites pull the box scores for a project I want to do, guessing an API from the conference or schools website.

And I'm glad our 3PT% increased when you used the PSU FTs, some games it feels like it could go either way.

[HoosierHoopster 6,023]

13 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Nothing against you but... (we humans are more often incorrect than those computers) typically when a professional site puts up numbers they're correct unless the official box score is incorrect. I'm actually trying to figure out how the sites pull the box scores for a project I want to do, guessing an API from the conference or schools website.

And I'm glad our 3PT% increased when you used the PSU FTs, some games it feels like it could go either way.

Yeah I like reviewing the boxes and advanced stats, not because i think i’ll beat the comps,. And i’m not a stats guy, just look for things thst are in line with or not in line with what i’m seeing. It’s just weird that we’ve shot less 3’s for examp 

[HoosierHoopster 6,023]

1 hour ago, IUFAN1976 said:

Just pointing this out, don’t you mean 2021 for last year and 2022 for this year?  I am assuming you are comparing this years team to last years team.

2020-21, and 2021-22 seasons