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Five Prime

2022-2023 IUBB Roster Projection

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This has been referenced a fair amount... why was the NW a game LD should have played? We still had our top 3 front court guys in that game. 
When Michael Penix got hurt in football we didnt substitute the best LBer in for him... we used the next QB. 
LD didn't play in that game because he wasn't needed anymore in that one, then he was the rest of the games. The players ahead of him still played. 
Good and fair points....I didn't think of it like that. I guess I just figured with fresh legs and any talent at all he would have saw some time.

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3 minutes ago, mbredenk101 said:

Good and fair points....I didn't think of it like that. I guess I just figured with fresh legs and any talent at all he would have saw some time.

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I thought that, as well, orginally. He very well maybe below Leal. Not sure. 

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1 hour ago, PB1230 said:

The ones that are most adamant about wanting JG to stay are those mostly wishcasting him at the 3 spot, hoping he takes minutes from Kopp.  For JG to play over Kopp, he'll need to develop an entirely new skillset, whereas Dennis just needs to get his 3 point shooting up to where it was before this past season (Dennis was a 36% career 3 point shooter before this past season).

JG doesn't need an entirely different skillset to be better at the 3 than Kopp.  He's a better defender and rebounder and is better at getting to the rim already.  He's a worse ballhandler and shooter, but it's not lot Kopp was good at dishing assists and he didn't shoot well last year.  I'm not sure the what Kopp gave us in ballhandling and shooting was any better than what JG added in other departments.

In terms of Dennis being a 36% career three point shooter, that's all backloaded.  He shot 40% as a freshman and 33.6% his sophomore and junior years.  I'm not sure his shooting from 2018-9 is real relevant now.....the same as his free throw shooting.  As a freshman he shot 66%.  Since then, he's been at 85, 80 and 79.  As a freshman he was a good three point shooter and crummy free throw shooter.  He's spent the next three seasons as a mediocre three point shooter and very good free throw shooter.  At this point, that's what he is -- a mediocre three point shooter and very good free throw shooter.  

But put the three point shooting aside -- he's not a good shooter inside the arc either.  His percentages over the past four years from inside the arc has been 40%, 37%, 41%, and 43%.  Those aren't good marks.

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3 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

Yes, he has the raw talent. But he doesn't have the the shooting or ball handling skills to play the 3. Is it possible he could acquire those skills between now and when the season starts? Possible, yes. Likely? Probably not. That is a short period of time to acquire skills most players work on for years. We'll see. I'm sure the coaches are willing to give him a shot at it.

He of course should be working on skills that would make him a viable 3. At the very least, that makes him a more well rounded 4, but he just has a much longer road to get there than what a lot of people are willing to admit. 

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11 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

Yes, he has the raw talent. But he doesn't have the the shooting or ball handling skills to play the 3. Is it possible he could acquire those skills between now and when the season starts? Possible, yes. Likely? Probably not. That is a short period of time to acquire skills most players work on for years. We'll see. I'm sure the coaches are willing to give him a shot at it.

But you don't need him to play the 3 for 30 minutes.  

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20 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

Yes, he has the raw talent. But he doesn't have the the shooting or ball handling skills to play the 3. Is it possible he could acquire those skills between now and when the season starts? Possible, yes. Likely? Probably not. That is a short period of time to acquire skills most players work on for years. We'll see. I'm sure the coaches are willing to give him a shot at it.

Neither of the guys we are bringing in are exactly lights out shooters.  

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14 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

JG doesn't need an entirely different skillset to be better at the 3 than Kopp.  He's a better defender and rebounder and is better at getting to the rim already.  He's a worse ballhandler and shooter, but it's not lot Kopp was good at dishing assists and he didn't shoot well last year.  I'm not sure the what Kopp gave us in ballhandling and shooting was any better than what JG added in other departments.

In terms of Dennis being a 36% career three point shooter, that's all backloaded.  He shot 40% as a freshman and 33.6% his sophomore and junior years.  I'm not sure his shooting from 2018-9 is real relevant now.....the same as his free throw shooting.  As a freshman he shot 66%.  Since then, he's been at 85, 80 and 79.  As a freshman he was a good three point shooter and crummy free throw shooter.  He's spent the next three seasons as a mediocre three point shooter and very good free throw shooter.  At this point, that's what he is -- a mediocre three point shooter and very good free throw shooter.  

But put the three point shooting aside -- he's not a good shooter inside the arc either.  His percentages over the past four years from inside the arc has been 40%, 37%, 41%, and 43%.  Those aren't good marks.

JG is a better post defender than Kopp is as a wing/perimeter defender, but Kopp is a much better wing/perimeter defender as JG really struggled defending outside the post. And yes JG is a vastly better rebounder IN THE PAINT where he can us his ability to elevate, but rebounding from the 3 spot is more about getting to loose balls in space, so moving JG to the 3 negates a lot of his rebounding ability. And JG is better around the rim, while getting to the rim requires ball handling ability that he does not have, and JG won't spend much time around the rim at the 3, so again you negate a lot of his ability

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10 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Again, IF JG is intent on leaving I'm fine with Dennis coming in.  His defense does make him a viable option.  I'm just not keen on bringing him in at the expense of having someone leave that wasn't set to.

I don't think anyone is advocating pushing JG out. I think the staff is only still recruiting as an insurance policy in case someone leaves

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I have no idea what people are seeing when they say that Kopp is a better wing defender than JG.  JG not playing the 3 has nothing to do with his ability to defend.  Miller gets beat off the dribble quite often and doesn't have the foot speed to stay with 3's once he's beat.  Being a willing defender doesn't make you a good defender.  Kopp was willing but at best an average defender.  And give JG any a minute amount of experience there and he's worlds better than Kopp.

What JG lacks in experience defensively at the three he makes up for in athleticism.  When he's beaten off the dribble, he has the catch up speed and length to make up space.  Kopp can't.

In terms of rebounding, yes, he would lose some  rebounds moving to the 3 but at 6'6" he was bringing in rebounds at a greater rate than Race and TJD were.  It wasn't just about him being a 4 that was brought in rebounds.  Athletes pull in rebounds regardless of position....the guy that we aren't potentially bringing in -- Dexter Dennis -- averaged 5 rebounds per game.  Kopp killed us there, pulling in just 2 1/2 per game.

The issue is ball handling and shooting.  It's not defense.

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14 minutes ago, PB1230 said:

I don't think anyone is advocating pushing JG out. I think the staff is only still recruiting as an insurance policy in case someone leaves

They are bringing in both Dennis and McNeil for visits, so I would say it's more than an insurance policy.  I am positive those two are viewing the visit as such.  Honestly, it would be pretty shitty of IU to bring them in and tell them that they aren't welcome.  My assumption is that you are only going to get guys who are in the transfer portal to visit if they already know a spot is available should they want to commit.

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24 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Neither of the guys we are bringing in are exactly lights out shooters.  

McNeil is the better of the two, but I'm not sure he adds much beyond shooting.  My opinion is that McNeil is a shorter version of Kopp and Dennis is a taller and little better version of Phinisee.  I think McNeil is better than Kopp in that he'd play the 2 where rebounding is typically less important and I think Dennis has a higher ceiling than Phin.

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3 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

They are bringing in both Dennis and McNeil for visits, so I would say it's more than an insurance policy.  I am positive those two are viewing the visit as such.  Honestly, it would be pretty shitty of IU to bring them in and tell them that they aren't welcome.  My assumption is that you are only going to get guys who are in the transfer portal to visit if they already know a spot is available should they want to commit.

Recruits/transfers always know that there may or may not be a position for them, if not taken by a current player staying, it could easily be taken by another recruit before they get a chance to visit. As long as the staff is honest about the situation, they will understand.

There was a spot open when the visits for Dennis/McNeil were scheduled. They likely knew that each other as well as Reneau were visiting, but only one technically open spot. The staff could have told them we are currently full after the Renau commitment but that they were still welcome to come as there was a chance another spot could open up. From there, Dennis/McNeil are free to do as they like. And unless its eating up another timeslot that they could visit elsewhere, it doesn't hurt them to come.

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2 hours ago, mbredenk101 said:

I don't know.....the college game has changed. Get as much talent as possible with all 13. We saw what it looked like when we were 5 players down at NW. If practices are packed with talent, it just makes everyone better. However, someone has to be the worst out of 13. Maybe LD is the better example of this than Leal. LD didn't even play in that game at NW.

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No team plays 11-13 players and most only play a 7-8 man rotation.  Just look at the final four teams and I don't think any of them had 13 scholarship players.

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No team plays 11-13 players and most only play a 7-8 man rotation.  Just look at the final four teams and I don't think any of them had 13 scholarship players.
I understand that. On the other hand, 13 are given for a reason. If it only takes 7-8 talented players then only allow schools to use 8 and the rest can be walk-ons. If we are given 13 in a climate where players can transfer so much, why not get the most talented 13 you can get?

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21 minutes ago, mbredenk101 said:

I understand that. On the other hand, 13 are given for a reason. If it only takes 7-8 talented players then only allow schools to use 8 and the rest can be walk-ons. If we are given 13 in a climate where players can transfer so much, why not get the most talented 13 you can get?

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Because while you are only using 8-9 any given year the other 4 will hopefully work their way into that cadre of 8-9 as they grow and develop 

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26 minutes ago, mbredenk101 said:

I understand that. On the other hand, 13 are given for a reason. If it only takes 7-8 talented players then only allow schools to use 8 and the rest can be walk-ons. If we are given 13 in a climate where players can transfer so much, why not get the most talented 13 you can get?

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Because there is no way 13 4 or 5 star players will be willing to sit at the end of the bench. You should have the 11-13 players be guys like Leal who might develop their last couple of years and who are happy to be on the team.

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2 hours ago, btownqb said:

This has been referenced a fair amount... why was the NW a game LD should have played? We still had our top 3 front court guys in that game. 

When Michael Penix got hurt in football we didnt substitute the best LBer in for him... we used the next QB. 

LD didn't play in that game because he wasn't needed anymore in that one, then he was the rest of the games. The players ahead of him still played. 

No… our front court played the entire 40 minutes and was gassed despite their being a scholarship player on the bench available.

the guards got a breather, from a walk on…


Not sure why that is hard to comprehend - our front court NEVER played the entire game before or after that, they usually get a breather and could have that game but coach opted to run them into the ground vs put Logan Duncomb in even for 1 play

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Because while you are only using 8-9 any given year the other 4 will hopefully work their way into that cadre of 8-9 as they grow and develop 
Until the 4 transfer due to lack of playing time. Do you think the days of sitting on the bench for 3 years, and working your butt off in practice, while hoping that you play a little your senior year are over? I do understand what you are saying, just wondering if that thinking has now passed us by?

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5 hours ago, go iu bb said:

Do you know that he's saying that to the coaching staff and they are begging him to stay? Or is it all just message board fodder? Last year he did put his name into the portal along with 1/2 the team since his coach was fired and at that time his family wanted him closer to home. It's probable that they still want that but is it known that JG is thinking of leaving? He hasn't entered the portal this season.

It’s message board fodder and honestly it gets old

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