Lineup Changes?

[go iu bb 4,789]

22 hours ago, brumdog45 said:

Food for thought for everyone -- Tarvik stats:

Shooting:  first, dunks or 'close 2s';  then 'far 2s';  then three pointers.  I'll have to look up their definition of close 2's but am guessing its five or six feet and in:

TJD:  121/160 (76%), 13/39 (33%), 0/2 (0%)

Race:  50/60 (83%), 18/32 (56%), 3/18 (17%)

Geronimo:  19/32 (59%), 6/11 (55%), 3/11 (27%)

Leal:  5/5 (100%), 0/0, 5/15 (33%)

Johnson:  27/42 (64%), 7/30 (23%), 9/25 (36%)

Durr:  3/5 (60%), 5/12 (42%), 0/1, (0%)

Lander:  6/8 (75%), 0/3 (0%), 3/9 (33%)

Galloway:  2/3 (67%), 1/2 (50%), 1/4 (25%)

Bates:  5/10 (50%), 9/18 (50%), 11/33 (33%)

Phin:  6/16 (38%), 3/15 (20%), 8/26 (31%)

Kopp: 1/4 (25%), 16/40 (40%), 16/40 (40%)

Stewart:  0/1 (0%), 3/11 (27%), 28/59 (48%)

 

 

 

Some take-aways from this:

It looks like this team shoots too many "far 2s." 306 "close 2s," 213 "far 2s," and 243 3s. That's ~28% of shots are far 2s which are some of the worst shots to take. Only 3 players are hitting 50% or more of those.

Percentages: 80% close 2s, 38% far 2s, and 36% from 3.

Durr takes too many far shots for a big. He's only shot 5 shots from close range. Is he afraid to bang? That won't help in B1G play.

Phinisee: 6/16 from close is not good and it just shows what the eye sees, that he's a terrible finisher.

Johnson and Kopp are two of the worst offenders of shooting bad 2s as shown by their far 2 numbers.

[IUFAN1976 2,252]

3 hours ago, maharkn said:

Nope. Just believe if it's not working make a change. The guards should have been rotated into the starters. X might play better as an alpha scorer on the second unit.

Sent from my SM-A515U1 using Tapatalk
 

100% agree!  Change it up!  Have X be the Alpha on the 2nd group, that’s the same role he thinks he had at Pitt!

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

Some take-aways from this:
It looks like this team shoots too many "far 2s." 306 "close 2s," 213 "far 2s," and 243 3s. That's ~28% of shots are far 2s which are some of the worst shots to take. Only 3 players are hitting 50% or more of those.
Percentages: 80% close 2s, 38% far 2s, and 36% from 3.
Durr takes too many far shots for a big. He's only shot 5 shots from close range. Is he afraid to bang? That won't help in B1G play.
Phinisee: 6/16 from close is not good and it just shows what the eye sees, that he's a terrible finisher.
Johnson and Kopp are two of the worst offenders of shooting bad 2s as shown by their far 2 numbers.

I’d like to see the definition of “far 2s” but I don’t think it’s as far out as we think. Kopp definitely needs to stop the dribble pull-up or dribble pull-up spin then toss it at the rim. That has been taken away against more athletic wings. His game should be threes, even at that he hasn’t exactly been consistent.


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[RaceToTheTop 23,603]

3 hours ago, go iu bb said:

Some take-aways from this:

It looks like this team shoots too many "far 2s." 306 "close 2s," 213 "far 2s," and 243 3s. That's ~28% of shots are far 2s which are some of the worst shots to take. Only 3 players are hitting 50% or more of those.

Percentages: 80% close 2s, 38% far 2s, and 36% from 3.

Durr takes too many far shots for a big. He's only shot 5 shots from close range. Is he afraid to bang? That won't help in B1G play.

Phinisee: 6/16 from close is not good and it just shows what the eye sees, that he's a terrible finisher.

Johnson and Kopp are two of the worst offenders of shooting bad 2s as shown by their far 2 numbers.

I think we are actually in the middle in percentage of far twos taken and percentage of percentage shooting from there.  Gonna get a quick rundown and post the Big Ten teams (numbers updated through yesterday).

[RaceToTheTop 23,603]

Here is how Indiana's shot distribution lines up:

close 2's/dunks:

have made 71% of close 2's/dunks  (I believe you miscalculated on the 80% you had quoted, iu bb).  This percentage made on close 2's ranks 4th in the Big Ten.

43% of our shots have been close 2's/dunks.  This is the 4th highest mark in the Big Ten.

far 2's

have made 39% of our far 2's taken;  this is the fifth best mark in the Big Ten.

28% of our shots taken have been far 2's.  This is the 8th highest total in the league -- really not that bad considering these are the shots you don;t want taking much of.

three pointers

IU has made 36% of their three pointers taken;  this is fifth in the league.

30% of IU's shots have come from three;  this is the second lowest mark in the league.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In context, I think the percentage made from all three positions is good -- 4th in the league on close 2's, 5th on far 2's, and 5th on threes.  I think the area we probably have struggled some on is getting more threes up -- we seem to be knocking them down fine.  Can't give up on them because we get off to a cold start there and need to work at getting our three point shooters more space to shoot because they're hitting pretty well.

For comparison, here is what the rest of the Big Ten is doing.  First, shooting percentages for close 2's, far 2's, and threes:

Indiana 71, 39, 36

Penn State:   70, 32, 35

Illinois:  69, 36, 40

Nebraska:  66, 34, 28

Ohio State:  72. 46. 40

Purdue:  79, 34, 41

Minnesota:  62, 45, 36

Iowa:  71. 36, 35

Wisconsin:   65, 36, 30

Michigan:  67. 43. 34

Northwestern:  60, 41, 35

Maryland:  63. 32, 31

Michigan State:  65. 34, 39

Rutgers:  66, 34, 32

League averages:  68, 37, 35

Percentage of shots taken (close 2s, far 2s, threes)

Indiana 43, 27, 30

Penn State 35, 22, 43

Illinois 38, 22, 40

Ohio State 30, 30, 40

Purdue 39, 23, 38

Minnesota 33, 29, 37

Wisconsin 32, 32, 36

Iowa 43, 21, 36

Michigan 36, 30, 34

Northwestern 37, 29, 34

Maryland 42, 25, 33

Michigan State 40, 28, 32

Rutgers 37, 34, 30

League averages:  38, 26, 36

 

 

[RaceToTheTop 23,603]

Last set of stats for food's thought:  points per shot taken.  Takes the total number of points scored divided on two and three point shots divided by the number of shots taken.

Purdue 1.24

Ohio State 1.18

Illinois 1.16

Indiana 1.14

Iowa 1.14

Michigan 1.09

Michigan St 1.09

Penn State 1.08

Minnesota 1.07

Northwestern 1.04

Rutgers 1.00

Maryland 0.99

Nebraska 0.99

Wisconsin 0.97

----------

I think this leads a little credence to the notion that if IU can clean up the turnovers and free throws, the offense should be more than capable.

 

[yogisballin 2,288]

The lack Phinisee to become even an average B1G point guard combined with our inability to recruit over him has heavily contributed to our lack of success. It’s forced us to recycle X. Gotta have a guard who can get a basket when the game is on the line and we don’t have it.

I think that RP has actually played well over the last few ball games. And matter of fact he’s outplayed XJ. XJ’s decision making is suspect to say the least and he doesn’t show to have a high BB-IQ. I’m extremely worried that he left PITT before the season had ended.

Kopp/Stewart the question is which one do you choose to come off the bench because we’re limited at guard/wing. With Galloway coming back, I’m confident he will be taking one of their spots in the lineup. I feel this would be different IF we ran an offense for 1 or both of them once in a bit to get a shot behind the arc.

At some point, we need to play KL. I feel when our offense needs someone to step up and simply go get a bucket he can. I feel this way about Bates as well. He needs to play more! I fear something is up here but i sure hope like hell that I’m wrong.




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[Honkyman 1,670]

Phinisee has been inconsistent even as he has played better. He was terrible in the first half against Penn State Sunday but kept IU in the game near the end. He has always had moments going back to his winning shot against Butler freshman year. But inconsistency has been a more accurate mark of his career at IU.

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

^^^ I think this highlights Kopp's issues too. How many times has he not taken a 3 only to attempt to dribble for a "far 2" attempt. The result is part turning it over and part taking a worse shot. This goes back to the spacing and movement. We're not getting clean enough looks from deep.

[Uspshoosier 44,223]

3 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

^^^ I think this highlights Kopp's issues too. How many times has he not taken a 3 only to attempt to dribble for a "far 2" attempt. The result is part turning it over and part taking a worse shot. This goes back to the spacing and movement. We're not getting clean enough looks from deep.

Thing with Kopp is the reason he left Northwestern was because he wanted to be able to do more then just shoot 3’s and Woodys pitch to him was come here and expand your game we won’t limit you.   Koop is trying to do more to show that expanded game.    I’m saying it’s right but I see why Kopp is forcing the action instead of just bring a catch and shoot guy.   I see it, you see he just needs to to fit back into his old role for this team to be better on offense in my opinion.    Coaches tell kids what they want to hear all the time in recruiting and end up doing what they want.   Let’s see if Woody does this or continues to let him try to do things he isn’t great at 

[go iu bb 4,789]

11 hours ago, brumdog45 said:

Here is how Indiana's shot distribution lines up:

close 2's/dunks:

have made 71% of close 2's/dunks  (I believe you miscalculated on the 80% you had quoted, iu bb).  This percentage made on close 2's ranks 4th in the Big Ten.

43% of our shots have been close 2's/dunks.  This is the 4th highest mark in the Big Ten.

far 2's

have made 39% of our far 2's taken;  this is the fifth best mark in the Big Ten.

28% of our shots taken have been far 2's.  This is the 8th highest total in the league -- really not that bad considering these are the shots you don;t want taking much of.

three pointers

IU has made 36% of their three pointers taken;  this is fifth in the league.

30% of IU's shots have come from three;  this is the second lowest mark in the league.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In context, I think the percentage made from all three positions is good -- 4th in the league on close 2's, 5th on far 2's, and 5th on threes.  I think the area we probably have struggled some on is getting more threes up -- we seem to be knocking them down fine.  Can't give up on them because we get off to a cold start there and need to work at getting our three point shooters more space to shoot because they're hitting pretty well.

For comparison, here is what the rest of the Big Ten is doing.  First, shooting percentages for close 2's, far 2's, and threes:

Indiana 71, 39, 36

Penn State:   70, 32, 35

Illinois:  69, 36, 40

Nebraska:  66, 34, 28

Ohio State:  72. 46. 40

Purdue:  79, 34, 41

Minnesota:  62, 45, 36

Iowa:  71. 36, 35

Wisconsin:   65, 36, 30

Michigan:  67. 43. 34

Northwestern:  60, 41, 35

Maryland:  63. 32, 31

Michigan State:  65. 34, 39

Rutgers:  66, 34, 32

League averages:  68, 37, 35

Percentage of shots taken (close 2s, far 2s, threes)

Indiana 43, 27, 30

Penn State 35, 22, 43

Illinois 38, 22, 40

Ohio State 30, 30, 40

Purdue 39, 23, 38

Minnesota 33, 29, 37

Wisconsin 32, 32, 36

Iowa 43, 21, 36

Michigan 36, 30, 34

Northwestern 37, 29, 34

Maryland 42, 25, 33

Michigan State 40, 28, 32

Rutgers 37, 34, 30

League averages:  38, 26, 36

 

 

I was entering the numbers you posted so I may have fat-fingered one of them or maybe missed some attempts to get that 80%. Or maybe there are some shots taken and made from players not included in your list. Thanks for the correction. 

I still think that IU not only takes too many long 2s but also has the wrong players taking them. They're inefficient shots. It's good that we're hitting at a decent rate compared to most of the league but they really need to be backed up to be 3 point attempts. 

11 hours ago, brumdog45 said:

Last set of stats for food's thought:  points per shot taken.  Takes the total number of points scored divided on two and three point shots divided by the number of shots taken.

Purdue 1.24

Ohio State 1.18

Illinois 1.16

Indiana 1.14

Iowa 1.14

Michigan 1.09

Michigan St 1.09

Penn State 1.08

Minnesota 1.07

Northwestern 1.04

Rutgers 1.00

Maryland 0.99

Nebraska 0.99

Wisconsin 0.97

----------

I think this leads a little credence to the notion that if IU can clean up the turnovers and free throws, the offense should be more than capable.

 

This shows how much each turnover hurts IU. In a close game just 1 to 3 less turnovers could be the difference between a victory or a loss. Just look at Wisconsin, they're at the bottom of the league in points per shot yet they're 2-1 because they take care of the ball so they're scoring that 0.97 points per shot more often than a team like IU is scoring its 1.14 points per shot. 

It's kind of frustrating that looking at the numbers it looks like IU should be a better team than they are because they make so many mistakes, many of them unforced. Too many turnovers, too many missed FT, and too many bad shots.

[RaceToTheTop 23,603]

2 hours ago, Honkyman said:

Phinisee has been inconsistent even as he has played better. He was terrible in the first half against Penn State Sunday but kept IU in the game near the end. He has always had moments going back to his winning shot against Butler freshman year. But inconsistency has been a more accurate mark of his career at IU.

I do agree with this -- I thought Phin did play a poor first half against Penn State but a pretty good second half.

What I did like was that in the second half he didn't seem reluctant to shoot the ball.  I'm of the opinion that I'd rather have someone who is struggling shooting the ball to keep shooting rather than someone who is shooting well but shies away from shots.  You can always bench guys if they aren't shooting well....I'm not sure what to do with guys that shoot well but are reluctant.

[RaceToTheTop 23,603]

1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

^^^ I think this highlights Kopp's issues too. How many times has he not taken a 3 only to attempt to dribble for a "far 2" attempt. The result is part turning it over and part taking a worse shot. This goes back to the spacing and movement. We're not getting clean enough looks from deep.

It seems to me there is an incredible difference between when he steps in to 18 feet and puts up a shot and when he drives the baseline and puts up that 10 foot floater.  He really is pretty good at that 10 foot floater.  The step in 2, 100% agree...........not a good shot AND it's a not a shot that almost any shooter can make regularly enough to shoot many of them.  I've seen Bates do the same thing.

I need to look at Alabama's numbers because Nate Oats in the past has been the master of having his teams shooter only close 2's and three pointers.

[RaceToTheTop 23,603]

side note:  if y'all hate my posts.....sorry.  Tested positive for covid this morning (minor symptoms only) so gonna be stuck behind my keyboard for a few days.

[HoosierHoopster 6,040]

11 hours ago, brumdog45 said:

Here is how Indiana's shot distribution lines up:

close 2's/dunks:

have made 71% of close 2's/dunks  (I believe you miscalculated on the 80% you had quoted, iu bb).  This percentage made on close 2's ranks 4th in the Big Ten.

43% of our shots have been close 2's/dunks.  This is the 4th highest mark in the Big Ten.

far 2's

have made 39% of our far 2's taken;  this is the fifth best mark in the Big Ten.

28% of our shots taken have been far 2's.  This is the 8th highest total in the league -- really not that bad considering these are the shots you don;t want taking much of.

three pointers

IU has made 36% of their three pointers taken;  this is fifth in the league.

30% of IU's shots have come from three;  this is the second lowest mark in the league.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In context, I think the percentage made from all three positions is good -- 4th in the league on close 2's, 5th on far 2's, and 5th on threes.  I think the area we probably have struggled some on is getting more threes up -- we seem to be knocking them down fine.  Can't give up on them because we get off to a cold start there and need to work at getting our three point shooters more space to shoot because they're hitting pretty well.

For comparison, here is what the rest of the Big Ten is doing.  First, shooting percentages for close 2's, far 2's, and threes:

Indiana 71, 39, 36

Penn State:   70, 32, 35

Illinois:  69, 36, 40

Nebraska:  66, 34, 28

Ohio State:  72. 46. 40

Purdue:  79, 34, 41

Minnesota:  62, 45, 36

Iowa:  71. 36, 35

Wisconsin:   65, 36, 30

Michigan:  67. 43. 34

Northwestern:  60, 41, 35

Maryland:  63. 32, 31

Michigan State:  65. 34, 39

Rutgers:  66, 34, 32

League averages:  68, 37, 35

Percentage of shots taken (close 2s, far 2s, threes)

Indiana 43, 27, 30

Penn State 35, 22, 43

Illinois 38, 22, 40

Ohio State 30, 30, 40

Purdue 39, 23, 38

Minnesota 33, 29, 37

Wisconsin 32, 32, 36

Iowa 43, 21, 36

Michigan 36, 30, 34

Northwestern 37, 29, 34

Maryland 42, 25, 33

Michigan State 40, 28, 32

Rutgers 37, 34, 30

League averages:  38, 26, 36

 

 

What stands out is we are, again, at the bottom of the conference in taking 3-point shots:

"30% of IU's shots have come from three;  this is the second lowest mark in the league."

This is the point we've been coming back to lately, that the team is not executing inside-out, the reliance on TJD inside is too heavy. It's not that we're not moving the ball, it's that we're not spreading the floor with outside shooting from inside-out play. It's absolutely there, but it's not happening at the level it needs to be.

[HoosierHoopster 6,040]

3 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

side note:  if y'all hate my posts.....sorry.  Tested positive for covid this morning (minor symptoms only) so gonna be stuck behind my keyboard for a few days.

Hope you're feeling alright and get through it well. Post away man.

[RaceToTheTop 23,603]

1 minute ago, HoosierHoopster said:

What stands out is we are, again, at the bottom of the conference in taking 3-point shots:

"30% of IU's shots have come from three;  this is the second lowest mark in the league."

This is the point we've been coming back to lately, that the team is not executing inside-out, the reliance on TJD inside is too heavy. It's not that we're not moving the ball, it's that we're not spreading the floor with outside shooting from inside-out play. It's absolutely there, but it's not happening at the level it needs to be.

Love, love, love TJD but I think part of this is on him.  He is really slow to pass out of the double team and isn't a great passer.  Race IMO is much better at it than TJD.

Slow passing + relucant shooter (Stewart) + lack of movement = reduction in three point attempts.  I still think it's fixable and we're not that far away, though.

I do think the booing of X taking the number of threes he took against Notre Dame is also bad in that it sends the wrong message to players.  X was open on the shots (likely for a reason) but as bad as his shot is he hasn't shot bad from deep and he actually is shooting three pointers less than 2 times per game.  It's not X taking too many threes that should be the focus, it's not getting enough for Stewart/Kopp/Bates/Leal.

[RaceToTheTop 23,603]

12 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

It seems to me there is an incredible difference between when he steps in to 18 feet and puts up a shot and when he drives the baseline and puts up that 10 foot floater.  He really is pretty good at that 10 foot floater.  The step in 2, 100% agree...........not a good shot AND it's a not a shot that almost any shooter can make regularly enough to shoot many of them.  I've seen Bates do the same thing.

I need to look at Alabama's numbers because Nate Oats in the past has been the master of having his teams shooter only close 2's and three pointers.

Here it is....Nate Oats, master of the shot chart:

42% of Alabama's shots are close 2's, 15% are far 2's, 43% are threes.  

They don't even shoot close 2's and threes at a great rate -- 71% on close 2's, 33% on threes -- but the shot distribution produced really good numbers.  They check in at 1.14 ppg (same as IU) despite really not shooting the three ball well.

[Demo 17,350]

53 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

What stands out is we are, again, at the bottom of the conference in taking 3-point shots:

"30% of IU's shots have come from three;  this is the second lowest mark in the league."

This is the point we've been coming back to lately, that the team is not executing inside-out, the reliance on TJD inside is too heavy. It's not that we're not moving the ball, it's that we're not spreading the floor with outside shooting from inside-out play. It's absolutely there, but it's not happening at the level it needs to be.

Agree, and a lot of that falls on Trayce. He doesn’t have a great feel for where pressure’s coming from and he’s not decisive. Was watching the OSU-Nebraska game the other night and OSU’s 1st 2 baskets in OT were open 3’s from Liddell  finding shooters from the block. The 1st one the post feeder was digging and he kicked it straight back and on the 2nd the double was coming from the opposite wing, he reads it immediately and makes a perfect diagonal pass. Trayce might have made the 1st pass. No chance he sees the 2nd one. The other part, in fairness to Trayce, is OSU had 4 shooters around Liddell. All he had to do was go where the read lead him. It’s tough for IU to put 4 shooters on the floor in a lineup you could actually play.

[IU - Kaulie 1,866]

4 hours ago, yogisballin said:

I think that RP has actually played well over the last few ball games. And matter of fact he’s outplayed XJ. XJ’s decision making is suspect to say the least and he doesn’t show to have a high BB-IQ. I’m extremely worried that he left PITT before the season had ended.

Kopp/Stewart the question is which one do you choose to come off the bench because we’re limited at guard/wing. With Galloway coming back, I’m confident he will be taking one of their spots in the lineup. I feel this would be different IF we ran an offense for 1 or both of them once in a bit to get a shot behind the arc.

At some point, we need to play KL. I feel when our offense needs someone to step up and simply go get a bucket he can. I feel this way about Bates as well. He needs to play more! I fear something is up here but i sure hope like hell that I’m wrong.




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Bates has been struggling a little bit.  Besides not making shots his defense has not been there at times.  I’m not worried about him at all though.  It’s obvious he is a player.  In fact, he is the guy I would like to see not only in the game but run something for him to take the last shot.  That’s how much I think of Bates (more importantly I think he thinks that of himself).  I think him being out of practices due to the personal reasons is showing up a bit right now but no long term worries.  Please no more force feeding TJD at end of game situations.  While I’m at it TJD has absolutely got to rebound much better.  That’s a big concern to me.  
 

I do strongly disagree about KL.  I’m with CMW regarding his role right now 100%.