IUBB vs Merrimack - 12/12/21 @ Noon on BTN

[Trish 11,408]

9 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

My biggest takeaway from today’s game… Parker Stewart, if he isn’t shooting 5/10 three pointers is an absolute liability. Awful defensively, like worse than James Blackman Jr bad but without the firepower on offense

That is indeed true. He's a liability on defense and will be targeted endlessly in the B1G. Kopp at least has height, but is a role player as well.  

[hoosierbgh 1,227]

18 hours ago, OliviaPope40 said:

Loved Jess Settles throwing some shade at UK for not wanting to play us.

I wish Settles did more IU games. I think he does a good job and he always shows a lot of respect for Indiana basketball, both IU and high school ball. 

[IUFAN1976 2,234]

15 hours ago, cthomas said:

Games like this are part of his progression. He has all the tools, rough though they may be at times. If we expect to do anything this season beyond just meeting the experts expectations, he will have to be a part of it. 

As well as Bates!

[IUFAN1976 2,234]

3 hours ago, brumdog45 said:

While I wouldn't go that far, I would like to see some of our bench players get some run with the starters.  I'd like to see the bench peppered in rather than poured in all at once.  Hard to tell how good individually bench players are when they are playing as a unit.

I want CMW to keep trying to develop his bench ; however, this seems like something the he should try in these last 3 non conference games.  I 100% agree! 

[HoosierHoopster 6,028]

4 hours ago, Trish said:

That is indeed true. He's a liability on defense and will be targeted endlessly in the B1G. Kopp at least has height, but is a role player as well.  

It's an interesting dynamic to watch. He's an excellent shooter, that's bearing out well. But for me the trade off is between Kopp and Bates. Kopp is now at 42% from the arc, and Bates fell to 36%, but that's a drop from where he was, over 40%, and he's by far the better defender. Kopp starts for his experience and his offense (and he's hitting almost all his free throws) and Bates plays like the frosh he is at times, including against Merrimack, but he's now up to 20.5 mpg, with Kopp at 25.9. I can see Bates play his way into the starting lineup over time, and think that would help avoid the slow starts and hole the team often digs for itself in the first half. Not saying Bates has shown he should start now, he definitely still has his frosh moments (surprise, he's a frosh) but that's an awfully closer call to me, and I think he should get there, he brings the scoring plus the D, and if he shoots more, I'd bet on the increased scoring coming with it.

[cthomas 5,917]

2 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

It's an interesting dynamic to watch. He's an excellent shooter, that's bearing out well. But for me the trade off is between Kopp and Bates. Kopp is now at 42% from the arc, and Bates fell to 36%, but that's a drop from where he was, over 40%, and he's by far the better defender. Kopp starts for his experience and his offense (and he's hitting almost all his free throws) and Bates plays like the frosh he is at times, including against Merrimack, but he's now up to 20.5 mpg, with Kopp at 25.9. I can see Bates play his way into the starting lineup over time, and think that would help avoid the slow starts and hole the team often digs for itself in the first half. Not saying Bates has shown he should start now, he definitely still has his frosh moments (surprise, he's a frosh) but that's an awfully closer call to me, and I think he should get there, he brings the scoring plus the D, and if he shoots more, I'd bet on the increased scoring coming with it.

I think this is an example of "you can't always get what you want" type of thing for CMW. Kopp and Durr were the best options available. Steward was already here but I doubt the Woodson would have recruited any of them. This is not meant to be critical of those players because I like them and that they wanted to be here. Bates is a different matter. He is a guy that we would want regardless. There is no reason to be critical of the coach or the players at this point because this is a makeshift roster at best. In a couple of years we can begin to know whether Woodson is going to succeed or not. But for now, I trust what he is doing.

[HoosierHoopster 6,028]

20 minutes ago, cthomas said:

I think this is an example of "you can't always get what you want" type of thing for CMW. Kopp and Durr were the best options available. Steward was already here but I doubt the Woodson would have recruited any of them. This is not meant to be critical of those players because I like them and that they wanted to be here. Bates is a different matter. He is a guy that we would want regardless. There is no reason to be critical of the coach or the players at this point because this is a makeshift roster at best. In a couple of years we can begin to know whether Woodson is going to succeed or not. But for now, I trust what he is doing.

Yes and Woodson’s recruiting has been good, the kind of players he’s recruiting fit his style well and are all strong players. I’m very much in his camp right now - I believe he’ll be successful and that we’re on a good path, time will tell, but I’m optimistic. There’s room to question how the roster is being managed (not that I’m qualified to be a D1 coach lol), but yeah, I like the direction of the program regardless 

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,728]

Yes and Woodson’s recruiting has been good, the kind of players he’s recruiting fit his style well and are all strong players. I’m very much in his camp right now - I believe he’ll be successful and that we’re on a good path, time will tell, but I’m optimistic. There’s room to question how the roster is being managed (not that I’m qualified to be a D1 coach lol), but yeah, I like the direction of the program regardless 

I can see this point, (but..Woodson doesn’t get 3 years to build-it’s win now and show us what ya got time in CBB) without major jumps in ability and confidence or a high impact transfer or 2 we will project to be worse next season. Not sure how this can be seen differently. I guess people hold onto hope for the right transfer. I know I’m repetitive on this topic and I’d like to think the staff realizes this but ya never know. My brother coaches a high school hockey team and he’d always say wait until these Freshmen are Seniors we will be loaded. And I’d say, well, the other teams keep bringing in more talent each year on the front end. Those Freshman are Seniors now and his team isn’t any higher ranked now than they were then. The best kid in the city is a freshman on a different team and they are undefeated. My point being, waiting and hoping for development is nice and all but just get the talent in the first place. It’s much easier.


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[RaceToTheTop 23,572]

I think ultimately Stewart and Kopp are in there to provide the threat of shooting and there is value to that even in a game where they aren't shooting well in that they are guys that will bring the defense out.  As long as they aren't in prolonged slumps, teams gotta guard them.  At this point they are 37 of 82 from three (45%) and they certainly will cause the defense to extend.  And while they aren't primary ball handlers, they don't turn it over -- 16 turnovers between them in over 500 minutes.

The fact is IMO that our defense is ahead of our offense and that is with Kopp and Stewart on the floor, so they must be doing something right in terms of team defense.

[lillurk 3,668]

11 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

I think ultimately Stewart and Kopp are in there to provide the threat of shooting and there is value to that even in a game where they aren't shooting well in that they are guys that will bring the defense out.  As long as they aren't in prolonged slumps, teams gotta guard them.  At this point they are 37 of 82 from three (45%) and they certainly will cause the defense to extend.  And while they aren't primary ball handlers, they don't turn it over -- 16 turnovers between them in over 500 minutes.

The fact is IMO that our defense is ahead of our offense and that is with Kopp and Stewart on the floor, so they must be doing something right in terms of team defense.

Yeah I think in terms of team defense, they’re pretty sound. Stewart is a little foul-prone but he’s often asked to guard an opponent’s best perimeter player, not including PGs. The comparison upthread unfavorable to him vs. JBJ was too harsh.

But they both have an athleticism deficit vs. wings that really put heat on you with the dribble. You can usually hide one of those guys, but it’s really hard to hide two at the same time.

Absent injury or Bates REALLY coming on, I think the starting lineup probably stays the same this year, but there are some ways to mitigate this:

1. Since Stew and Kopp have overlapping skills, stagger their minutes somewhat. Ideally neither spends much time guarding the opponent’s first or second perimeter option. So if you start them together, one sits pretty early (~16 minute timeout, when CMW doesn’t often sub). When he comes back, the other sits. (See #2 for one workaround)

2. Play Kopp at the four more. This is harder to do if Durr and Geronimo are dependable but he gives you a different look. In theory this might make it easier to hide both guys defensively simultaneously.

Unfortunately both of the above require more dependable contribution from bench guards/wings. I think Bates can get there, and Galloway if he comes back healthy. Leal has been close — he probably gives a little more (though less height) on D and slightly less on O than these two right now.

If you want to tip the scale both smaller and more towards defense, you can solve some of these issues with more Phin at the 2.

[lillurk 3,668]

…and I meant to add that if IU cleans up some of its other issues (TOs, PG and bench consistency), then it stands to reason that wing defense could be one of the things that limits its ceiling this year unless, like, Galloway or Geronimo or Bates really transforms into a DUDE on that end by Feb/Mar.

The D is quite good, the O is too, if it improves how well it takes care of the ball. But you can imagine an endgame with this team where it plays a good game against a good team in the tourney — scores ~1.05 points/possession, say, and sound play on both ends — but the best player on the opponent is some future NBA all-star for whom IU currently has no stopper.

So they do alright, he hits a bunch of high difficulty shots, and you tip your cap. We’ll be back, you tell yourself, and when we’re back Bates won’t be so green or slight, Geronimo will be a one-man trap, Jakai Newton will eat someone’s lunch then pack him in the cooler, and so on.

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

We haven’t seen the issues with defense on the wings, YET (!!!), because of the competition. St. Johns, Syracuse, and Marshall (?) was getting anything and everything they wanted at the rim or open shots because of our inability to defend on the wing. That will be an issue in Big 1.0 play.


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[RaceToTheTop 23,572]

14 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

We haven’t seen the issues with defense on the wings, YET (!!!), because of the competition. St. Johns, Syracuse, and Marshall (?) was getting anything and everything they wanted at the rim or open shots because of our inability to defend on the wing. That will be an issue in Big 1.0 play.


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I remember some past years where teams would come in and just kill us from three.  At this point no one has cracked the 40% mark from deep.  I’m not sure how many other teams can make that claim right now.

one very good sign is that previously even against bad teams we were beating them in the paint but not from three….we are doing both now.  We are currently at 37% from deep and hitting over 7 threes per game.

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

1 hour ago, brumdog45 said:

I remember some past years where teams would come in and just kill us from three.  At this point no one has cracked the 40% mark from deep.  I’m not sure how many other teams can make that claim right now.

one very good sign is that previously even against bad teams we were beating them in the paint but not from three….we are doing both now.  We are currently at 37% from deep and hitting over 7 threes per game.

That is good but not my point.

My point is we lost those games mainly due to our inability to stop wings from scoring. Kopp and Stewart aren't going to win any all-conference defensive team honors. As we enter Big 1.0 play and we see more of those calibers of scorers on the wing, we will need to do something to combat that. Stewart and Kopp both over help on drives and are slow to get back out to their man. That will cause problems in conference play by either allowing uncontested shots, open driving lanes, or foul trouble for Race and Trayce.

[Alford Bailey 12,246]

We fans tend to only look at the positives when a player transfers in. We’ve been hit with a dose of reality and seen all the weaknesses of our transfers in the early part of the season.