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Hoosierfan2017

2021/2022 Men’s Basketball Season

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15 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

I agree that KL has improved his D and he is doing a better job staying in front of his man. I also think, however, that the Rob vs KL stats are a bit skewed this early in the season as KL got quite a few minutes in the bunny games Rob missed due to injury.  
One thing for certain….the only opinion that really matters is Woodys.

Sure, Woody’s opinion is the only one that matters, but that doesn’t mean it’s the right opinion. Rob got plenty of time against cupcakes too. He played 43 minutes against EMU and Northern Illinois while Lander got 7 minutes in those two games. Rob’s individual stats are absolutely atrocious, and the team’s stats with him on the court are too. He’s a senior. We’ve seen Rob be the same player for more than 3 years now. Every other player on the team has improved from last year while he’s gotten worse. It’s time for us to just accept the fact that he’s not a good player and move on. And hey, maybe Lander isn’t the answer here either. We won’t know until he gets regular playing time. What’s painfully obvious, though, is that Rob is not the answer. Why keep forcing something that doesn’t work? 

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I’m not defending or advocating for Rob, just saying that Woody obviously trusts him more than KL.

I’m glad we landed X as I think, at this point, he is far better than either of his backups. He needs to stay out of foul trouble.

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2 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

I’m not defending or advocating for Rob, just saying that Woody obviously trusts him more than KL.

I’m glad we landed X as I think, at this point, he is far better than either of his backups. He needs to stay out of foul trouble.

I don’t disagree with you at all that Woody trusts Rob more. He very clearly does. I just don’t understand why he does. His performances speak for themselves. 

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48 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Sure, Woody’s opinion is the only one that matters, but that doesn’t mean it’s the right opinion. Rob got plenty of time against cupcakes too. He played 43 minutes against EMU and Northern Illinois while Lander got 7 minutes in those two games. Rob’s individual stats are absolutely atrocious, and the team’s stats with him on the court are too. He’s a senior. We’ve seen Rob be the same player for more than 3 years now. Every other player on the team has improved from last year while he’s gotten worse. It’s time for us to just accept the fact that he’s not a good player and move on. And hey, maybe Lander isn’t the answer here either. We won’t know until he gets regular playing time. What’s painfully obvious, though, is that Rob is not the answer. Why keep forcing something that doesn’t work? 

 

17 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I don’t disagree with you at all that Woody trusts Rob more. He very clearly does. I just don’t understand why he does. His performances speak for themselves. 

I should start by saying that I don’t really look into stats all that much.  Rob P is an important piece to this team.  When he was in the game we were getting anything we wanted on offense.  He was finding Race and Trayce with ease on the back side of the zone.  KL missed TJD a couple times and in other games too.  Rob was also making their guards look really uncomfortable and making it harder for them to get into their sets.  He did have some bad fouls that he has to clean up.  Look, Rob is never going to have great stats on offense but he is valuable.

I really like KL and I’m excited about his future.  But with X and Rob I don’t see him getting minutes going forward unless we have another game where he is needed due to injury or foul trouble.  Rob gives us the best chance to win this year not KL. I’m 100% with Woody on giving Rob the minutes he is getting.

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1 minute ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I don’t disagree with you at all that Woody trusts Rob more. He very clearly does. I just don’t understand why he does. His performances speak for themselves. 

Love the profile pic. 
 

Even announcing 2nd vs 3rd backup PG seems unnecessary to me but whatever. 
 

And stats or not, I can watch the action and tell you Rob is a better defender than KL. Rob can stop a drive by himself, KL gets targeted and requires help. That said KL is much, much better this year, to the point that it makes sense to give him minutes. 

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2 minutes ago, Stromboli said:

Love the profile pic. 
 

Even announcing 2nd vs 3rd backup PG seems unnecessary to me but whatever. 
 

And stats or not, I can watch the action and tell you Rob is a better defender than KL. Rob can stop a drive by himself, KL gets targeted and requires help. That said KL is much, much better this year, to the point that it makes sense to give him minutes. 

Agree on all points. Rob gets bashed here because of the 'pound the ball' thing, and honestly that's been warranted (and I think CAM really hurt his confidence), but he's an excellent defender, and he contributes offensively more in ways that don't show up in the box.

But -- Lander is really coming along, and he is so quick with the action and his reads. From what I see, his D is suffering now more because of his being overly aggressive - he reaches and fouls way too much -- than what is was before, when he looked lost. He doesn't look lost much now, and his offense is showing the 5-star talent that he came in with, it's not there yet, but it's really starting to show. I do hope he can continue to get minutes, I think he's going to continue to improve and he has the talent to get us W's.

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33 minutes ago, Stromboli said:

Love the profile pic. 
 

Even announcing 2nd vs 3rd backup PG seems unnecessary to me but whatever. 
 

And stats or not, I can watch the action and tell you Rob is a better defender than KL. Rob can stop a drive by himself, KL gets targeted and requires help. That said KL is much, much better this year, to the point that it makes sense to give him minutes. 

 

And to get ever so slightly off topic ... damn our guard situation looks outstanding for next year and beyond: 

At a minimum? Bates, Hood-Schifino, Lander, Leal, Galloway

The following year? Add Newton and Cupps to most or all of the same group.

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Rob and KL to me are a tossup this season. Lander just seems more streaky when he plays. Higher highs and lower lows. When and if KL limits the lows KL>>>>RP.

 

We need Geronimo to play better to be useable option off the bench. He’s In his head and playing poorly lately. The missed FTs aren’t helping. We need him, he has tools you want on the court.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Stromboli said:

Love the profile pic. 
 

Even announcing 2nd vs 3rd backup PG seems unnecessary to me but whatever. 
 

And stats or not, I can watch the action and tell you Rob is a better defender than KL. Rob can stop a drive by himself, KL gets targeted and requires help. That said KL is much, much better this year, to the point that it makes sense to give him minutes. 

I don’t think anyone would argue that Lander is a better defender than Phinisee is. My biggest point is that individual defense gets overrated in basketball, especially individual defense from non-rim protectors.

RP and KL have played nearly identical amounts of time this year. 74 minutes to 75 minutes. The team’s defensive rating has been better with Lander on the court than with Rob on the court. Playing Lander has not meant that we’ve had to sacrifice our defense. In fact, the team’s defense has been better with him compared to with Rob. So, if our team defense doesn’t get worse with KL, why not play him? The 19 year old with 300 career minutes is a lot more likely to improve than the 22 year old with 2300 career minutes  

Im looking ahead to future seasons. Lander put his name in the portal last year. If he rides the bench again this year I have a feeling he will transfer. It’d be an absolute shame to lose him because we decided to play a senior who really isn’t any better than him. 

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1 minute ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I don’t think anyone would argue that Lander is a better defender than Phinisee is. My biggest point is that individual defense gets overrated in basketball, especially individual defense from non-rim protectors.

RP and KL have played nearly identical amounts of time this year. 74 minutes to 75 minutes. The team’s defensive rating has been better with Lander on the court than with Rob on the court. Playing Lander has not meant that we’ve had to sacrifice our defense. In fact, the team’s defense has been better with him compared to with Rob. So, if our team defense doesn’t get worse with KL, why not play him?

Im looking ahead to future seasons. Lander put his name in the portal last year. If he rides the bench again this year I have a feeling he will transfer. It’d be an absolute shame to lose him because we decided to play a senior who really isn’t any better than him. 

Woody, Fife, Matta, etc..

That's reason enough for me to trust the process.

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5 minutes ago, jk34 said:

Woody, Fife, Matta, etc..

That's reason enough for me to trust the process.

Sorry, but I don’t have blind faith in the staff. You could find a post from 4 years ago saying the exact same thing about Archie Miller and his staff. Woody has coached 7 games in his college coaching career. Playing the senior who is shooting 28% from the field, 20% from 3, and 40% from the free throw line over the 5 star 19 year old is not a logical decision. Even if Rob’s shooting averages increase to his career averages, they’re still putrid for a 6’1 guard. Lander is arguably just as good as Rob is now, and he’s three years younger. The argument that “we need rob for his defense” isn’t backed up by the numbers. 

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15 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Sorry, but I don’t have blind faith in the staff. You could find a post from 4 years ago saying the exact same thing about Archie Miller and his staff. Woody has coached 7 games in his college coaching career. Playing the senior who is shooting 28% from the field, 20% from 3, and 40% from the free throw line over the 5 star 19 year old is not a logical decision. Even if Rob’s shooting averages increase to his career averages, they’re still putrid for a 6’1 guard. Lander is arguably just as good as Rob is now, and he’s three years younger. The argument that “we need rob for his defense” isn’t backed up by the numbers. 

I love analytics and I’m usually the guy arguing them over the eye test. But using team defense to discredit Rob’s defense over Khristian’s doesn’t work today. 
 

Otherwise, I agree there’s some unquantifiable value to playing/developing the younger, promising guard. We’re all really rooting for Khristian to become another plus player for us. Especially with X and Rob possibly done after this year. But what if Rob had made a pass at the end of 1st OT against Syracuse? In that game, he was the guy effective making the entry pass, and it may have translated to an important win. 
 

Aaaaanyway. It’s Xavier’s show this year. And Khristian is no guarantee next year—to stay or start—regardless, so I’d be inclined to pick the backup PG that gives the better chance this year to get wins. 
 

And my man. Woodson, Matta, Fife, etc absolutely deserve some benefit of the doubt. And yes more than Archie and Schilling. But I do appreciate not having blind faith. 

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10 minutes ago, Stromboli said:

I love analytics and I’m usually the guy arguing them over the eye test. But using team defense to discredit Rob’s defense over Khristian’s doesn’t work today. 
 

Otherwise, I agree there’s some unquantifiable value to playing/developing the younger, promising guard. We’re all really rooting for Khristian to become another plus player for us. Especially with X and Rob possibly done after this year. But what if Rob had made a pass at the end of 1st OT against Syracuse? In that game, he was the guy effective making the entry pass, and it may have translated to an important win. 
 

Aaaaanyway. It’s Xavier’s show this year. And Khristian is no guarantee next year—to stay or start—regardless, so I’d be inclined to pick the backup PG that gives the better chance this year to get wins. 
 

And my man. Woodson, Matta, Fife, etc absolutely deserve some benefit of the doubt. And yes more than Archie and Schilling. But I do appreciate not having blind faith. 

Xavier is prone to foul trouble, so even though he’s the guy this year, we’re unfortunately going to need a back up point guard to step up. Rob’s  a career 66% free throw shooter, so we might not have even made it to the first OT if he was playing. I think Lander gives us a better chance to win games this season. If he gets consistent playing time, I’m much more optimistic when it comes to Lander making big strides come March than vice versa. 

And why should this staff get more benefit of the doubt than the previous one? We’re all beat down after his four years here, but he was very promising when he was hired. I’m not trying to be difficult, but Archie had prior college coaching experience. He won 69% of his games at Dayton, he made the tournament 4 years in a row and made it to an Elite 8. Woody has a ton of NBA experience, but he was a mediocre head coach in the NBA. I’m not even arguing that Archie > Woody as a coach, not in the slightest, but you could look at him in year 1 and say ‘have faith, he’s led a successful college program before.’ 

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1 hour ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Sorry, but I don’t have blind faith in the staff. You could find a post from 4 years ago saying the exact same thing about Archie Miller and his staff. Woody has coached 7 games in his college coaching career. Playing the senior who is shooting 28% from the field, 20% from 3, and 40% from the free throw line over the 5 star 19 year old is not a logical decision. Even if Rob’s shooting averages increase to his career averages, they’re still putrid for a 6’1 guard. Lander is arguably just as good as Rob is now, and he’s three years younger. The argument that “we need rob for his defense” isn’t backed up by the numbers. 

I’m more inclined to look beyond the numbers at what my eyes tell me.  When Rob is in the game his defense makes it more difficult for the opponent to get what they want more so than KL.  I have also saw KL miss TJD more than once and that just can’t happen.  I don’t know what he was doing at the end of OT but he completely muffed that up.  I like KL and he is much improved but he isn’t there yet.  Rob offers more value right now.  Woody has made it clear RP is the backup and based on what I have seen I would agree 100%.

I want to win now.  Players and coaches want to win now.  I think this team can be pretty good and has a chance to do some really good things this year.  I don’t think a loss at Syracuse in November changes that.  KL is learning and he will get some sporadic minutes here and there but most of his development will have to come at practice.

Right now for this team RP > KL.

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11 minutes ago, IU - Kaulie said:

I’m more inclined to look beyond the numbers at what my eyes tell me.  When Rob is in the game his defense makes it more difficult for the opponent to get what they want more so than KL.  I have also saw KL miss TJD more than once and that just can’t happen.  I don’t know what he was doing at the end of OT but he completely muffed that up.  I like KL and he is much improved but he isn’t there yet.  Rob offers more value right now.  Woody has made it clear RP is the backup and based on what I have seen I would agree 100%.

I want to win now.  Players and coaches want to win now.  I think this team can be pretty good and has a chance to do some really good things this year.  I don’t think a loss at Syracuse in November changes that.  KL is learning and he will get some sporadic minutes here and there but most of his development will have to come at practice.

Right now for this team RP > KL.

Disagree completely. We’ve seen what Rob can offer for 3+ years now. It’s not much. He’s been a below average player on a below average team. The ‘eye test’ also shows the offense completely crater with him on the court. But whatever. When Lander transfers after a completely underwhelming season from RP I won’t be happy. 

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7 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Not great. Despite Phinisee’s ‘experience’, he’s no more productive than Lander. Kid can’t get experience if you don’t play him. Phinisee, as a point guard, averages more fouls than he does assists. His 34.3% TS% is the lowest I’ve ever seen for a rotational player. Lander’s defense is nowhere near as bad as it was last season. Don’t like this decision at all. 

 

Kid shouldn’t get experience until he proves he deserves it.  I’d rather have Phin out there playing great defense and bad offense than Lander playing bad defense with mediocre offense.  And, FWIW, Phin has always been the first point guard off the bench this year.  Lander has only been that when Rob was hurt.  I think Woodson is saying this as a message to Lander because IMO Lander isn’t running the sets correctly.  Can’t have a point guard if they don’t run the plays.

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12 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Disagree completely. We’ve seen what Rob can offer for 3+ years now. It’s not much. He’s been a below average player on a below average team. The ‘eye test’ also shows the offense completely crater with him on the court. But whatever. When Lander transfers after a completely underwhelming season from RP I won’t be happy. 

If Lander transfers it will be because he couldn’t rightfully beat out the player you describe as a below average player on a below average team.  This is now head coach #2 that has come to this conclusion and — as we know when Woodson inserted Geronimo oat the behest of his assistants — it’s likely the assistants have the exact same conclusion as Woodson.  Landed cost IU at the end of the first OT AND the second OT against Syracuse.

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4 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

Kid shouldn’t get experience until he proves he deserves it.  I’d rather have Phin out there playing great defense and bad offense than Lander playing bad defense with mediocre offense.  And, FWIW, Phin has always been the first point guard off the bench this year.  Lander has only been that when Rob was hurt.  I think Woodson is saying this as a message to Lander because IMO Lander isn’t running the sets correctly.  Can’t have a point guard if they don’t run the plays.

What has Phinisee done this season to deserve playing time? His offense has been putrid. He’s one of the worst offensive guards I’ve seen in a long time. His defense is starting to become a little overrated. He committed 5 fouls in 14 minutes on Tuesday, including multiple fouls 50+ feet from the basket. He can make as many mistakes as he wants and people make excuses for him, regularly blaming it on Archie ‘ruining him.’ 

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Just now, Hoosierfan2017 said:

What has Phinisee done this season to deserve playing time? His offense has been putrid. He’s one of the worst offensive guards I’ve seen in a long time. His defense is starting to become a little overrated. He committed 5 fouls in 14 minutes on Tuesday, including multiple fouls 50+ feet from the basket. He can make as many mistakes as he wants and people make excuses for him, regularly blaming it on Archie ‘ruining him.’ 

Except people wanting Phin to play aren’t saying that because they think Rob is good.  It’s a statement about how bad Lander is.  If you can’t see how much Lander gets targeted on defense, I don’t know what to say…..not to mention how often he turns it over (not even going into the times not recorded as turnovers when he simply doesn’t run the right play.

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