Archie. Miller. Fired.

[NashvilleHoosier 3,624]

1 hour ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Yes. Still fire him. 

I already knew your answer. 

[NashvilleHoosier 3,624]

1 hour ago, pumpfake said:

First off, as posted moments ago, this appeared to be the scenario of winning the conference tournament. Ok, got it, whew. But obviously some people are actually talking about winning it all and still firing him.

Second, winning the NCAA would almost certainly gain CAM an extension as it would amount to a miracle - one that has an infinitesimally small chance of happening. Agreed, I even referred to it as a hypothetical that won't even have the chance of happening, and the impossible. 

Beyond such a miraculous run the key phrase is "body of work" - which has been unsatifactory and is grounds for dismissal, IMO. Yes, agreed. Remove the impossible miracle and the body of work isn't good enough. 

 

[Rico 2,911]

19 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

No, Howard wasn’t brought in to turn things around but 4 of his top 6 scorers have only been in the program 1 or 2 years (3 of them have only been in the program this year and one of them is in his second year).

IU had a higher percentage of scoring returning this year than Michigan. I think it’s pretty impressive that Howard has successfully reloaded so quickly. 

Meh, Michigan's "culture" has been in place for a while.

[Josh 12,352]

1 minute ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Sure it does. The only thing I'll dispute there is that is probably more like 99.9%, not 98%. But we're talking about people already making more money than they need. But what would be convincing about making more money and winning titles if we ran of a coach that won a title? They would look at this place as....okay, the previous coach had to start from ground zero, ended up winning two B1G titles and went to 3 sweet 16s and that wasn't good enough, then the guy that replaced him went: no postseason, NIT quarters, NCAA tourney, national title and they fired him. I'm already making $4M (or more?) in a job where I am successful (we aren't going after an unsuccessful coach)....what the hell would I have to do to keep that job if I took it? No chance anyone even sniffs it unless we're forking over money that we don't have and no school would ever pay. 

Coaches tend to be very confident people.  If a coach is scared, I don't want him anyway.

When I interviewed for my current job 11 years ago, I was told I was going to replace a guy who wasn't performing to expectations.  He actually didn't even know it when I was hired.  I got to know him for a couple weeks and found him very competent.  But I could see some areas where I knew I could improve upon his performance.  I wasn't scared at all, I was very confident.  Today I consistently finish top 5% in my position of more than 1,300 people in a Fortune 500 company.

Not everybody is scared away from new challenges when they think they can be more successful in a new position.

[NashvilleHoosier 3,624]

8 minutes ago, Josh said:

Coaches tend to be very confident people.  If a coach is scared, I don't want him anyway.

When I interviewed for my current job 11 years ago, I was told I was going to replace a guy who wasn't performing to expectations.  He actually didn't even know it when I was hired.  I got to know him for a couple weeks and found him very competent.  But I could see some areas where I knew I could improve upon his performance.  I wasn't scared at all, I was very confident.  Today I consistently finish top 5% in my position of more than 1,300 people in a Fortune 500 company.

Not everybody is scared away from new challenges when they think they can be more successful in a new position.

Of course they are. But we're also already talking about our biggest targets not having interest in this job. Who by the way, NONE of the targets we have discussed have actually won a national title (unless people are still talking about Bennett and Donovan). And winning a national championship doesn't qualify as "not performing to expectations" in the world of college hoops. Whatever the guy you took over for did, his underperformance obviously didn't include whatever the absolute pinnacle of achievement for the field you are in. It's not about being scared away from a challenge, it's about being smart about not throwing away what you have to play a game you can't win. Even the bravest coach, scared of nothing in the world, ready to take on anything, would look at our job as a game they can't win if we fire a coach that achieves the absolute pinnacle achievement possible in that field.  

[Hardwood83 4,471]

36 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Kevin Ollie won a title in his 2nd year even he was clearly an awful coach. And UConn felt every bit of it as he continued to make UConn absolute crap. 

I would take that trade= Banner for 3-4 more years of mediocrity! 

It ain't happening, so just a mental exercise in futility. 

[Josh 12,352]

2 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Of course they are. But we're also already talking about our biggest targets not having interest in this job. Who by the way, NONE of the targets we have discussed have actually won a national title (unless people are still talking about Bennett and Donovan). And winning a national championship doesn't qualify as "not performing to expectations" in the world of college hoops. Whatever the guy you took over for did, his underperformance obviously didn't include whatever the absolute pinnacle of achievement for the field you are in. It's not about being scared away from a challenge, it's about being smart about not throwing away what you have to play a game you can't win. Even the bravest coach, scared of nothing in the world, ready to take on anything, would look at our job as a game they can't win if we fire a coach that achieves the absolute pinnacle achievement possible in that field.  

Actually, the guy before me did reach it previously.  Not the year before, but he had.  It's just that his overall performance didn't merit him keeping the job in an area where there was a lot of potential. 

You and I certainly look at this differently.

[NashvilleHoosier 3,624]

7 minutes ago, Josh said:

Actually, the guy before me did reach it previously.  Not the year before, but he had.  It's just that his overall performance didn't merit him keeping the job in an area where there was a lot of potential. 

You and I certainly look at this differently.

So yeah, in that scenario, if Archie's results fell back off after the title, moving on would be fine. Much like the Ollie scenario at UConn. Cutting bait immediately after winning that title though would be putting the nail in our own coffin. Agree to disagree on that one. 

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,092]

Sure it does. The only thing I'll dispute there is that is probably more like 99.9%, not 98%. But we're talking about people already making more money than they need. But what would be convincing about making more money and winning titles if we ran of a coach that won a title? They would look at this place as....okay, the previous coach had to start from ground zero, ended up winning two B1G titles and went to 3 sweet 16s and that wasn't good enough, then the guy that replaced him went: no postseason, NIT quarters, NCAA tourney, national title and they fired him. I'm already making $4M (or more?) in a job where I am successful (we aren't going after an unsuccessful coach)....what the hell would I have to do to keep that job if I took it? No chance anyone even sniffs it unless we're forking over money that we don't have and no school would ever pay. 

You said what I'm thinking far better than I could have done.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Golfman25 4,598]

2 hours ago, DChoosier said:

No, Howard wasn’t brought in to turn things around but 4 of his top 6 scorers have only been in the program 1 or 2 years (3 of them have only been in the program this year and one of them is in his second year).

IU had a higher percentage of scoring returning this year than Michigan. I think it’s pretty impressive that Howard has successfully reloaded so quickly. 

Howard actually runs an offense.  Here's a pretty good video  

 

[Chris007 41,870]

3 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Howard actually runs an offense.  Here's a pretty good video  

 

Don't know this for sure but I'm guessing a lot of this is Phil Martelli

[GloryDays 5,888]

4 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Lol. Ask UConn how that worked for them with a crappy coach. 

Mike Davis quote after the final four run 

I TOLD YOU I COULD COACH!

and we bought it.

[Golfman25 4,598]

4 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Don't know this for sure but I'm guessing a lot of this is Phil Martelli

Fair enough, but It's Howard's name on the door.  

[Chris007 41,870]

2 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Fair enough, but It's Howard's name on the door.  

correct and he was smart enough to hire Phil so I give him that credit too

[Feathery 3,863]

24 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Don't know this for sure but I'm guessing a lot of this is Phil Martelli

You realize that Howard was viewed as an excellent X’s and O’s guy in NBA circles before he took the Michigan job right? Martelli was brought in to be a mentor and help guide Howard through the NCAA rule book. I’m sure Martelli as a mentor has an influence on Howard but the guy can coach and recruit. 

[Hovadipo 52,835]

45 minutes ago, Feathery said:

You realize that Howard was viewed as an excellent X’s and O’s guy in NBA circles before he took the Michigan job right? Martelli was brought in to be a mentor and help guide Howard through the NCAA rule book. I’m sure Martelli as a mentor has an influence on Howard but the guy can coach and recruit. 

Those NBA circles need to come get him out of the B1G because Michigan is a WAGON and frankly I’m not fired up about it. 

[Feathery 3,863]

1 hour ago, Hovadipo said:

Those NBA circles need to come get him out of the B1G because Michigan is a WAGON and frankly I’m not fired up about it. 

I was a kid and loved the Fab 5, so I can’t hate on Howard. They were my 2nd team during those years. I don’t ind Michigan being great. IU just needs to be better than the rest of the conference or on par with the top teams on conference. 

[Class of '66 Old Fart 80,869]

Chris007 has mentioned several times about the financial impact the pandemic has had and will have on IU.  This from Osterman - Indy Star and keep in mind, this is for the fiscal year 7/1/19 - 6/30/20 and we'd only seen the tip of the iceberg at that point.

 

IU reported reduced annual revenue to the NCAA for the first time in at least 15 years in 2020, a dip of more than $6.6 million from 2019. 

That’s according to the athletic department’s annual financial report, obtained via records request by IndyStar. Member institutions are required to submit a copy of the report annually to the NCAA.

Indiana’s latest report — which covers the fiscal year from July 1, 2019-June 30, 2020 — outlines the initial impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on bigtime college athletics. In many ways, however, it represents the tip of a much larger financial iceberg. 

Among the biggest revenue reductions reflected in IU’s 2020 report were an $800,000-plus loss in ticket revenue, a dip of nearly $5.5 million in contributions and a loss approaching $3 million in NCAA distributions. That final number is a direct result of the canceled 2020 NCAA men’s basketball tournament, which forced the association to scale down membership distributions from $600 million to $225 million. 

IU did report an increase in expenses of about $5.5 million, after reporting a reduction in expenses from FY18 to FY19. 

The increase in department expenditures — due in large part to increased salary payouts and a reported $2.22 million in bowl expenses — will have been heavily influenced by the cost of IU’s recent football success. Those bowl expenses covered the Hoosiers’ appearance in the 2020 Gator Bowl in Jacksonville, Fla., after two years without playing in the postseason. And Tom Allen’s fresh contract, following the success of an 8-4 2019 campaign, plus bonuses and raises spread across his staff, accounted for much of the increase in coaching salary expenses. 

What Indiana’s FY20 report largely does not reflect is a) the overwhelming bulk of the financial losses Indiana, like its sister departments across Division I athletics, will suffer as a result of the pandemic, and b) most of IU’s mitigatory efforts in response.

Much of the COVID-related impact felt in the FY20 report is the result of forces that balanced against one another, like a loss in ticket sales offset by a decrease in team travel expenses due to canceled seasons. 

The effects of the ongoing pandemic — effects Indiana is weathering right now — will be spelled out in far greater detail in next year’s report. 

That’s where departments are expected to outline a large-to-near-total loss in gameday revenues (tickets, concessions, parking, sponsorships, etc.), in in-person and interpersonal efforts like fundraising and contributions, and in any losses suffered at the conference or NCAA level in media revenues or other distributions. 

Since last spring, Indiana has done what it can to soften that blow, the impact of which could still stretch as high as $60 million in lost revenue, according to department estimates. 

Starting with a series of cost-saving measures enacted before the transition from Fred Glass to Scott Dolson as athletic director, IU has tightened its belt in non-essential travel, recruiting expenses and other discretionary areas. Multiple coaches have donated money back to the department, and all employees have been required to take a furlough period from work. 

Those efforts will still likely leave an eight-figure hole in the department’s budget, a hole Dolson told IndyStar in an interview last year he will consider all options in attempting to fill. Thus far, the department has not opted to cut any of its 24 varsity sports, or to follow the lead of some other Power Five-conference athletic departments in borrowing against future revenues (largely television/media revenues) to cover the oncoming loss. 

Still, what’s reflected in this year’s financial report — the department’s first year-over-year revenue decrease in the Big Ten Network era — only represents the beginning of the extensive financial pain Indiana will feel as a result of COVID-19.

[Golfman25 4,598]

1 hour ago, Hovadipo said:

Those NBA circles need to come get him out of the B1G because Michigan is a WAGON and frankly I’m not fired up about it. 

How about Boston.  :)  

[cappymo14 2,276]

Give him an extension if he makes the final four with this team honestly. Two-Three year extension, nothing crazy. 

If he makes the final four with this team he should be made president of the world...


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