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JaybobHoosier

General Coach Candidate News

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10 minutes ago, bleedhoosier said:

I did not feel good at all about us parting ways with Crean at the time. It was definitely time, but I very much liked Tom Crean, the guy, even if he was a bit maniacal. It also felt like his players would fall on a sword for him. Even years later, old players came around. Archie.. has what I would call zero success here, and his old players don't really fawn(sp?) over him. I can't help but wonder if we'd have another sweet 16 run at least if Crean were still here. He, if anything, could catch some momentum in a season. Archie, can't get this program out of 2nd gear apparently.

Separately, none of this feels good because even if the one of the available guys come here, are they ANY better than the Crean/IU era? 

How about when we fired Sampson? He was hired from his program on probation for what ultimately got him fired here. And he could coach circles around anything we have seen since Knight. So the admin fires him for phone calls and let’s student ambassador’s hire his replacement.

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50 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

The local IU writers seem less supportive than at the end of the Cream days. Not completely blasting Archie but pointing out that a lack of momentum the last 3 years is a hallmark of who we are, Iowa looks like a fluke, nothing new here as Archies Hoosiers cannot maintain momentum. 
 

certainly true but in the past some of these guys were hesitant to go negative and lose access. 

Crean won two Big titles and had us No. 1 in the country for a time. Archie has done nothing so its impossible to defend him.

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Yep, Crean did more pre-IU than Archie, and Crean did more at IU than Arch. You used to occasionally see the pro-Arch folks mention all the woe-is-he stories about what he inherited...which was light years ahead of what Crean inherited. By year four Crean had a great team.

By the time he was run out of town the well had been poisoned with Crean, but folks who were mad about one disappointing tourney exit and some volatility would do well to consider the extent to which that was a self-fulfilling prophecy based on the reaction to the Syracuse game and the following (Vonleh) year. Those were both disappointing but not disqualifying. So he got run out of town for a “defense first” guy who “recruits the state...” and then what?

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How about when we fired Sampson? He was hired from his program on probation for what ultimately got him fired here. And he could coach circles around anything we have seen since Knight. So the admin fires him for phone calls and let’s student ambassador’s hire his replacement.

The coaching thread has a few who would like to see Sampson return. I’m not saying it would be good or bad. I’m just wondering how that conversation would go. Like “Hey coach, look, sorry about all the death threats, how would you like to come back to coach at Indiana?” Lol!


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8 hours ago, lillurk said:

Yep, Crean did more pre-IU than Archie, and Crean did more at IU than Arch. You used to occasionally see the pro-Arch folks mention all the woe-is-he stories about what he inherited...which was light years ahead of what Crean inherited. By year four Crean had a great team.

By the time he was run out of town the well had been poisoned with Crean, but folks who were mad about one disappointing tourney exit and some volatility would do well to consider the extent to which that was a self-fulfilling prophecy based on the reaction to the Syracuse game and the following (Vonleh) year. Those were both disappointing but not disqualifying. So he got run out of town for a “defense first” guy who “recruits the state...” and then what?

Defense first is fine, but that coach still has to be able to fix problems on the othe end of the court.  In this case we haven't shot well in 4 years and his Dayton teams weren't exactly good shooters either, so he's either not recognizing the problem or failing miserably at fixing it.

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6 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

Defense first is fine, but that coach still has to be able to fix problems on the othe end of the court.  In this case we haven't shot well in 4 years and his Dayton teams weren't exactly good shooters either, so he's either not recognizing the problem or failing miserably at fixing it.

Right, I agree. Having a good, modern offense helps in recruiting, and it’s the side of the floor where you have more control over your fate, so you’ve gotta fix it.

Archie also gives the impression of aiming for “good enough” on offense instead of trying to be greet.

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10 minutes ago, lillurk said:

Right, I agree. Having a good, modern offense helps in recruiting, and it’s the side of the floor where you have more control over your fate, so you’ve gotta fix it.

Archie also gives the impression of aiming for “good enough” on offense instead of trying to be greet.

I've generally fallen in the camp that says defense is a constant (except for IU, apparently..).  Some days shots just don't fall, but you can still play good tough defense and fight and give all out effort.  Both ends are important, but seems we've gone to opposite extremes with Crean and Miller.

A subpar shooting team from 3 would be a little easier to stomach for me if we didn't leave so many points at the line, but we're horrific at the charity stripe too.

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11 hours ago, bleedhoosier said:

I did not feel good at all about us parting ways with Crean at the time. It was definitely time, but I very much liked Tom Crean, the guy, even if he was a bit maniacal. It also felt like his players would fall on a sword for him. Even years later, old players came around. Archie.. has what I would call zero success here, and his old players don't really fawn(sp?) over him. I can't help but wonder if we'd have another sweet 16 run at least if Crean were still here. He, if anything, could catch some momentum in a season. Archie, can't get this program out of 2nd gear apparently.

Separately, none of this feels good because even if the one of the available guys come here, are they ANY better than the Crean/IU era? 

I don't think CTC could actually "coach" all that well on the court. I'd like to argue there are better coaches than him but again, It's hard for me to imagine a great coaching wanting to walk through the doors of Cook Hall these days. Hell, it's hard for me to come up with a legit coaching list. I've been asking myself this, who would Duke, Kentucky and North Carolina all hire if these coaches all called it a career this spring? 

Some of my biggest issues with CTC's teams and his coaching included the defense, the lack of TO's, the offense starting with 7 seconds left on the shot clock, the lack of in-game adjustments, the lack of progress the overall team experienced in a given season. We tended to look BAD towards February - March. No question he got us back to a respectable level but the failure of the Zeller & Oladipo team was inexcusable. The Sweet 16 run he had in 2016 was legit, it's a shame we ran into UNC shooting unbelievably. We hit 14 3's that night, that's usually a WIN!  

Now Archie has his faults, but I like his coaching. I'd like to see us with a stretch 5 in this offense, TJD clogging the paint hinders are guards ability to drive at times in PnR's. We've countered with some roll and replace looks but teams have scouted that well. Single side ball-screens tend to work great with us.

We're a very easy scout that's for sure! If there is a coaching change next April then we have some potential solid pieces that's for sure. 

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Treesh said: "Some of my biggest issues with CTC's teams and his coaching included the defense, the lack of TO's, the offense starting with 7 seconds left on the shot clock, the lack of in-game adjustments, the lack of progress the overall team experienced in a given season."

You could be describing Archie Miller's teams as well. Defense? Like the defense we put up against Purdue and Rutgers? The lack of progress in a given season. And on and on. These complaints sound like a description of the past four years under Archie.

 

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I think one thing that is starting to feel like an Archie coached team pattern, is the last 3 years, they have turned on the heat in the final stretch. Definitely laid an egg in BTT but end of season, under pressure of tourney, paid out well. Here we are again this year and we shall see soon enough what happens in the final 4-6 games. 

I say that, but who cares, make a run at the tourney or get out of Bloomington. Moral victories were for season 2 and 3. 

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Teams tend to reflect their coaches personalities and style. Crean was manic and unfocused....led to drastic highs & lows with no consistency. Archie's teams seem to be more consistent, but kinda dull and lifeless. Consitently mediocre. 

I'm still not convinced he gets fired this year, barring a complete melt-down. 

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37 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

Treesh said: "Some of my biggest issues with CTC's teams and his coaching included the defense, the lack of TO's, the offense starting with 7 seconds left on the shot clock, the lack of in-game adjustments, the lack of progress the overall team experienced in a given season."

You could be describing Archie Miller's teams as well. Defense? Like the defense we put up against Purdue and Rutgers? The lack of progress in a given season. And on and on. These complaints sound like a description of the past four years under Archie.

 

The fundamentals have been better under Archie. Archie has been using his TO's better than his previous years and arguably better than CTC ever did. The inconsistency has been the biggest issue with Archie. CTC was at least a bit more consistent with winning games. This team can play defense, we saw it when we shut down the #1 offense in America on the road last Thursday.

Would've loved to have seen Archie with that Zeller + Oladipo team. He hasn't had a team that great here obviously and more than likely will never obtain a team that great here --- but I'd take his coaching over CTC's with a great roster. 

Archie will be here next year. We'll see what this roster can become over an off-season. TJD will return, the freshman could improve over the summer with the addition of Luke + Parker. If he can't win next year with the projected line up of 

Phin 

Frank

Parker

Race

TJD

Then he's gone. It took Shaka Smart five years, maybe it's going to take Archie 5 years? EDIT: And to be clear, I'm open for a coaching change. But it must be a home-run. Lateral moves are not welcomed. 

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If the fundamentals under Archie are better, they haven't translated into real success yet. By year four, Crean's team reached the Sweet Sixteen. With Archie's teams, improvement is painfully slow. Hoosier fans are losing patience. Besides, the fundamentals don't seem improved when watching games like IU v. Purdue.

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11 minutes ago, Treesh said:

The fundamentals have been better under Archie. Archie has been using his TO's better than his previous years and arguably better than CTC ever did. The inconsistency has been the biggest issue with Archie. CTC was at least a bit more consistent with winning games. This team can play defense, we saw it when we shut down the #1 offense in America on the road last Thursday.

Would've loved to have seen Archie with that Zeller + Oladipo team. He hasn't had a team that great here obviously and more than likely will never obtain a team that great here --- but I'd take his coaching over CTC's with a great roster. 

Archie will be here next year. We'll see what this roster can become over an off-season. TJD will return, the freshman could improve over the summer with the addition of Luke + Parker. If he can't win next year with the projected line up of 

Phin 

Frank

Parker

Race

TJD

Then he's gone. It took Shaka Smart five years, maybe it's going to take Archie 5 years? EDIT: And to be clear, I'm open for a coaching change. But it must be a home-run. Lateral moves are not welcomed. 

FWIW, for next year I'd expect either Lander or Geronimo to be in the starting lineup before I'd likely put Stewart in there.

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9 hours ago, bleedhoosier said:

I think one thing that is starting to feel like an Archie coached team pattern, is the last 3 years, they have turned on the heat in the final stretch. 

I’m not sure about “turning up the heat“ down the stretch.

Last year we went 1-3 in our last 4 conference games.

From 2/1 forward we were 4-6 in conference (plus lost the last two games in January).

Hopefully that’s not our new definition of a “run”.

EDIT: and two years ago, from today’s date 1/25 and going forward, we were 5-7 in conference (and lost all 5 games previous to that). On the positive side we did win the last 4 in a row but then inexplicably slept-walked through the OSU BTT game which was widely considered to be a play-in game for the NCAA tourney. I hope we turn it up down the stretch this year but don’t think the previous years are proof that will happen. We will see.

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17 hours ago, schoosier said:

He will get one more year. Our admin hasn’t cared about bball since 99 and football is on the way up.

Probably right. After next season when the buyout is down to $3 mil, Archie will have 2 years remaining on his contract. He has to be extended or fired. So it’s shaping up to be a hot seat season. 

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FWIW, for next year I'd expect either Lander or Geronimo to be in the starting lineup before I'd likely put Stewart in there.
And I'm not putting TJD in there considering he isn't likely to be back. Likely lineup if no coaching change is made???
Thompson
Hunter
Galloway
Franklin
Phinesee

I just don't see Lander or Geronimo starting over the junior or senior. I also don't see that lineup being any better than this year. Basically trading TJD for Hunter.

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1 minute ago, rcs29 said:

And I'm not putting TJD in there considering he isn't likely to be back. Likely lineup if no coaching change is made???
Thompson
Hunter
Galloway
Franklin
Phinesee

I just don't see Lander or Geronimo starting over the junior or senior. I also don't see that lineup being any better than this year. Basically trading TJD for Hunter.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
 

TJD may not care if he is a first round pick or not. However, he is projected to be a late 2nd round pick or not drafted at all. No guarantee money in that case. He’d be best served coming back. 

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TJD may not care if he is a first round pick or not. However, he is projected to be a late 2nd round pick or not drafted at all. No guarantee money in that case. He’d be best served coming back. 
Why out of curiosity do you say that? Has he developed a jumper in 2 years under this staff? If he hasn't done that by now why would it all of a sudden change? And that is what most think is the reason his stock isn't high. I'd argue he'd be better served going to the G-League and being developed there. The really isn't much he can do outside of that to increase his value.

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